Baffert: Arrogate’s Post Position Draw In Pegasus ‘Very Important’

by | 01.10.2017 | 4:26pm
Arrogate received special permission to jog over Santa Anita's muddy main track on Saturday morning

The inaugural running of the $12 million Pegasus World Cup is still a few weeks away, but trainer Bob Baffert is already thinking about the post position draw. In a race in which his star 4-year-old Arrogate will face a rematch with California Chrome, Baffert is hoping to draw one of the innermost stalls in the starting gate, reports skysports.com.

“Florida is very speed-favored,” said the Hall of Fame conditioner. “The break is very important. In these big races, when you have a large field, post position can be really important at Gulfstream because if you're in 11 or 12 it can be a disadvantage as they break right near the turn. It's a very short run to the (first) turn.”

Gulfstream Park's dirt track features a 1 1/8-mile circumference; the Pegasus World Cup is scheduled for 1 1/8 miles. That means that the starting gate will be placed slightly before the finish line, so horses will have to fight for early position or else risk being forced out very wide on the first turn.

“Out of the blocks, he doesn't fire away from there,” Baffert said, noting that Arrogate is not particularly good at leaving the starting gates quickly. However, Baffert believes that Arrogate is “going to get better. His biggest weapon is his stride. He's got a tremendous stride, he's got a tremendous kick and he does have speed.”

Read more at skysports.com.

  • redo

    Although there is no question in my mind that arrogate is a better racehorse than CC, this race might pose a problem for Arrogate if the field is small, and CC gets the jump at the start. CC raced against the bias in the BC, and at this track and if there is a positive speed bias, it gives CC a great chance to redeem himself.

    • horse

      Between those two horses, have you considered in your comparison the history of soundness and stamina in these individuals and each of their bloodlines? What do you consider better ….. a six start wonder or a perennial multiple Gr 1 and Classic winner?…

      • Mr. Blues

        California Chrome who else

      • redo

        What they do on the track is all that matters. Bloodlines may be nice in selling horses, speed and stamina is measured in performance on the track. Arrogate is the faster horse, with even greater potential than CC.
        BTW, CC is a champ, however doesn’t rate with the greats. No knock, just the way it is.

        • Lawrence R

          Definitely can not knock C..C.s record, but he has never really been in a fist fight with a top notch horse. He cruises around the oval unmolested in just about every big race he has ever been in , as he should have .

        • Michelle Gorth

          “CC is a champ, however doesn’t rate with the greats”.

          Redo, Didn’t CC set a track record his last time out? He is great and if you think otherwise, you need help.

          • redo

            Triple Crown Winners are great. And some others, however let us not compare California Chrome to the greats of all time. Just does not rate.
            Horse if the year yes indeed.
            BTW- he will have no excuse this time, if he doesn’t beat Arrogate.

          • Michelle Gorth

            Redo, you’re out of you element here. Highest money earner ever, track records, and CC is not one of the GREATS of all time? Maybe there is a handful better, if that. Definitely in the top 10 greats of all time. Name 10 that are greater and you can’t because they don’t exist. Why not post your greats of all time for comparison?

          • Pebbles

            I think CC rates with the greats, just not the all-time greats.

            His track record was impressive, but Los Al is known as a fats track and his competition was just OK in that race.

        • Pebbles

          Perhaps not the all-time greats. But he certainly is a great horse. And he certainly is a future Hall of Fame horse being the first horse since John Henry to win HOTY in non-consecutive years.

      • Lawrence R

        I would say ” the six start wonder who broke the Saratoga Travers record {GR1} and beat the other horse in a Breeders Cup {GR 1} race.

      • Pebbles

        Chromes campaign…
        8 at 5
        3 at 4 with multiple injuries and ships
        9 at 3
        6 at 2

    • Mr. Blues

      The only way Arrogate see’s the BCC this year is if he runs like last year ,which is race a half season.I’ll beat he doesn’t win the Dubia if he runs there as well .time will tell

      • redo

        How do you handicap the future of a racehors’s health?
        Crystal Ball?

        • Mr. Blues

          Like i said time will tell …don’t get me wrong I love the horse I just have a feeling his health wont take him as far as Chrome .He wil not even see a 5 year old season.hope he makes it to the shead atleast

  • Whynotwest

    When is the announcement that he is not going to Florida coming? Any guesses on the over/under number of days?

    • topkat

      I thought he would be on the plane by sunday, but if you recall he did the same thing with AP and the travers in 2015, waited waited waited everyone speculated will he run in the travers yes no I don’t know, fistfights broke out on paulick report horse racing nation bloodhorse will he, wont he, BB loses at Saratoga, graveyard of champions blah blah blah the tipoff in the travers was NYRA capped attendance at 50,000 and the tip off here is he has a spot in the starting gate so again it will be last minute and the focus will be on bob and his beast the last to roll into gulfstream park and grab all the pomp and circumstance of the day……

      • Leonard

        Totally agree….

    • michaelstapler

      I’ve been saying for 3 weeks that Arrogate will take his win vs Chrome and stay away, always having the ability of being perceived as the better horse. If he loses there is only downside for Arrogate, as he will never be consider better than Chrome, even if he reels off 15 straight wins.
      Bafferts’ decision will most likely be to “take his ball and go home”, so to speak.
      Besides, Chromes will be on razors edge for the rematch, which has NOTHING to do with the 1 1/8 distance. That part is a non-factor. No horse has a distance advantage. The better horse wins. I’m “guessing” Chrome wins.

      • Whynotwest

        I agree with everything you said. I think Baffert will keep Arrogate home and I also think Chrome wins this race whether Arrogate runs or not. We will see.

        • michaelstapler

          Even if Arrogate runs the Chrome/Arrogate/? tri pays nothing. Will have to play a Chrome/Arrogate/pick one/cold 4th super or Chrome/?/Arrogate for third tri to make money.
          Unless I get even money or better on Chrome, then I may take a nice win shot.

          • Whynotwest

            Who do you think will go off favored if Arrogate does run? I’ve been thinking about it and it’s tough to predict. And yes, you’re right, it will be difficult to make any money at all on the race if Chrome and Arrogate run 1-2. The win bet might be the best play. I hope you get every bit of even-money.

          • michaelstapler

            It is tough to say. Judging by this site, Arrogate is the favorite, but this site has more horse lovers than horse handicappers, as a whole.
            I would be ecstatic to get even money, but suspect fair odds to be Chrome at 7/10 and Arrogate at 1-1 or 6/5.
            Who knows… Maybe there is a horse to take advantage of a fast paced race and there is money t be made. Is Hopportunity running?

          • Lawrence R

            Please give me 6/5 on Arrogate , other wise I’ll have to just sit back an enjoy the race without a wager.

          • michaelstapler

            I would need 5/2 on Arrogate to maybe be swayed.

          • michaelstapler

            Yes, it pays nothing that way. I am not afraid to play a straight $200 tri to get back $1200 if it looks like a 1-2 finish. Worth the shot.
            However, if it looks like a cold 1-2-3 finish I would definitely play 3 bigger supers to tri to catch one that pays $50

          • Lawrence R

            YOUR kidding. right. Who will be the favorite if Arrogate scratches? Better really think deeply about that.

          • Whynotwest

            Re-read the comment and then reply appropriately. Don’t worry. You don’t have to apologize. Just improve your reading comprehension. And no. I’M not kidding.

          • Lawrence R

            My misteak. I have an aye apporntment on moonday ..I will also take coarse in englash Riting & reedin.Does I git a pasting mark for my ripplie?

  • J

    BAFFERT IF THE HORSE IS THAT GOOD – JUST GO WITH IT.
    YOU CAN ALWAYS USE THE OLD LINE – HE DIDNT LIKE THE RACETRACK & THEN SHIP TO DUBAI.
    GET OVER IT.

    • Holybull

      Arrogate can win from the 20 post in a five horse field. Deal with it.

  • Richard C

    This continuing nonsense makes the Pegasus World Cup a mule train.

    • JerseyGirl

      Agree! So much hype over such minutiae.

      • CJP

        Both of you clowns, Dick C and JerseyGirl, make sure you don’t watch or wager on this race. In fact, why are you even clicking on a story about this race if it’s such nonsense and minutiae. Don’t be hypocrites.

        • JerseyGirl

          Mind your own business. Your contribution is to call other commenters names? Wow! You must be truly awesome at the window

        • Molly Julia

          CJP – When Was The Last Time You Went To A Nice Racetrack Without A Grandstand?

        • Mr. Blues

          Right on!!!

      • Molly Julia

        JerseyGirl – How Can You Sit Down On A Wet Set – No Cover – $100?

        • Lawrence R

          Now ladies let’s not start a cat fight.

    • Molly Julia

      Richard – If Sloppy Track For 2017 Pegasus World Cup – Mucho Refunds?

  • gus stewart

    So maybe bb can tell us what post position would be a go and what ones wouldnt,,, im So excited to hear this im having trouble sleeping, inside, outside,middle, inside another speed horse, outside a closer,, please lets draw now..lol…

  • paully123

    No shot 11 12 horses going.

  • Ida Lee

    Stop making excuses Bob … Arrogate doesn’t need help …. he’ll be OK no matter what post he gets …. he’ll be great as usual … it’s just that Chrome will be even greater and kick major butt … on the other hand, maybe Keen Ice will decide this is the time to shock the horse racing world again …. or the Argentine horse Eragon might love the track and leave the Yanks looking at his humongous butt … it’s a horse race people … anything can happen …

    • ForLoveOfTheGame

      LLLLLLLLLLLLOL!!!!! Agree completely!

    • Molly Julia

      Ida – California Chrome – Hand Ride For The 2017 Pegasus World Cup – Remember! Victor Espinoza – Blinkers On This Time?

      • Ida Lee

        OK …. we definitely agree …. Chrome will have to fight for it cause Arrogate is no pushover but when the race is over, Chrome will show the world why he is the King of all things equine….Blinkers On I say…..

    • Mr. Blues

      Nicely said Ida

  • Jack Frazier

    Either he wants to run or he doesn’t. Pretty simple and it sounds as if he doesn’t. I hope he races as I really like Arrogate.

  • john

    Excuses, excuses…..give me a break!!!!!!!

  • Will Styles

    I got a feeling arrogate may be unsound right now. But they won’t opt out until the last minute.

    • Bob

      You’re out of your mind.

      • Will Styles

        Not my first rodeo Bob. Wait watch and see. I truly believe he won’t run. I little bird told me.

    • Kagey53

      This is something I have considered. Too many “fans” anointing him as the second coming. CC is razor sharp. Do not see him losing at 9 panels at Gulstream. Baffert knows this. He has not looked the same since the BCC.

      • Will Styles

        His last 3/4 work didn’t look that good to me. His time was fine. But it was how hard he worked to do it in. But hey I never thought CC would win the derby. Still pulling the feathers out of my mouth. CC sure is fun to watch.

        • Ls Gina

          I thought so too. Nothing I can put a finger on; just thought his front end was a minute bit off. Could have been the vid angle too, but I don’t think so.

          • greg

            read my post below

          • Will Styles

            Could be quarter crack or ankle. Either way Bob will do the right thing.

    • Lori colvin

      I’m thinking the same… I’ll be surprised if he does start in The Pegasus.

    • Pebbles

      So Baffert just worked an unsound horse?

      That was a might sharp time for an unsound horse. (roll eyes)

      • Will Styles

        It’s just and opinion, and not just mine but several others I’m in contact with. I really hope Arrogate runs. Our sport needs it. If he does scratch, I’m sure he will wait until till advitisers are locked in so this race doesn’t flop. On a side note I know dozens of horses that can work and race like monsters when there not 100% sound. Only time will tell. But my money is on California Chrome.

        • Pebbles

          Well, just because several others are mistaken does not make it right. :-)

          Baffert has a multi-million breeding prospect here and perhaps even more imporrantly he has a wealthy client he would like to continue to build a relationship with. There is nothing he will do to endanger the horse or that relationnship.

          • Lawrence R

            Amen !!! And welcome back to California, Juddmonte.

  • We’re watching

    If you’ve heard Baffert over the years he is setting up for not running or if the owners insist, an excuse why he lost.
    C Chrome will the race and Arrogate is out of the money. Start setting up your exactas and tris minus Arrogate.

  • Saratoga Bob

    This race has an opportunity to create lots of buzz and bring in new fans to the game .Unfortunatley they are blocking the casual spectator from attending this event . Why they are charging 100 dollars to get in the gate is puzzling to me .Keep in mind that the owners are putting up the money not the track !!The Pegasus will be viewed by less than 15.000 live fans .Lots of hype but without CC this race would be a just another grade 2 .Greed will keep new fans out of the track on a day that could be special🏇🏇🏇

    • Will Styles

      I totally agree. But gulfstream park really isn’t all that big to handle a lot of people in general compared to other tracks. I know it’s sold out upstairs. I like watching it on my hd tv anyhow.

    • markmarkct

      15,000 fans? Try 5,000 if that.

      • Molly Julia

        Mark – No Snowbirds? $100?

        • Mr. Blues

          This snow bird is coming. First time going to Florida

          • Virginia Lawler

            We’re all counting on your report “on the ground.”

      • AJUKONIBEAULINAJAZZY

        5000 is a lot.South florida is no longer a racing community. They will have to import fans.

        • Lawrence R

          Not really ,they will be flying in, many in private Jets. Just like at Lexington.

      • Dusty Nathan

        The 15,000 is the track’s guesstimate.

    • Molly Julia

      Saratoga Bob – No Kids For The Pegasus World Cup? $100?

      • Pebbles

        Not if you want to be there to see greatnes in the flesh.

    • Brian Duntugan

      That’s absolutely very ridiculous charging $100 4 general admission 2 the Pegasus World Cup. Only a few young & old adults will be there 4 that day.

      • Lawrence R

        Wait till you see what they get in the restaurants. I predict a sell out crowd.

    • John Oursler

      100 bucks to get in? That’s insanity

    • Meg Hiers

      I think you aren’t looking at it like the people putting it on are looking at it. Sure they want to bring in new fans to the sport, but I get the feeling this race is actually more about bringing in NEW OWNERS into the sport. There is very little about owning racehorses that makes for especially sound financial investment, especially at the upper end. People are doing it because it is fun and glamorous and allows them to “humble brag” about their wealth when they throw millions of dollars at untried yearlings, etc. I get the feeling the people that Stronach and crew want in the stands and clubhouse that day are the winter denizens of Wellington, West Palm Beach, and all the other exclusive snowbird colonies that have plenty of disposable income and enjoy using it to play with the big boys so to speak. When you are looking to make an impression with the supremely wealthy, you make sure the entry fee is enough to achieve that ever ephemeral notion of “exclusivity”.

      • Lori colvin

        Indeed… GP… Florida… Definitely about the $$$$ , as far as East Coast Tracks.

      • ThinkAboutIt

        They want to keep the riff-raff out.

        • Lawrence R

          Good !!!

    • Pebbles

      You have your answer right there. Wth the deal they worked out to get the owners to put up the money, Gulfstream Park needs to make revenue somewhere.

      I would not expect anything less than $100 a ticket to get into the race. I know it is not the same thing, but in 2015 tickets were selling from scalpers for $100 to see American Pharoah in the Travers.

      The fact is that people will attend the event.They will pay the ticket price. And at a marquee event like that – a championship level event one would expect there to be a raised fee especially when so few people can get in to see it. And I bet they sell out all the tickets they have for the event and they are bought by new fans as well as old.

      • Dusty Nathan

        On ticket prices: Horse racing is a gambling game, not the NFL. I don’t see a problem with tracks charging admission on a “big” day like the Pegasus; although, I do think $100 is extraordinarily excessive. Of the 15,000 expected, about 10,000 will pay the fee, amounting to significant revenue of $1 million. The examples you listed are valid, and the Breeders Cup certainly is not overpriced at the cost of a movie ticket in one of those new theaters with the good sound. The Derby, too, at $40 is a fair price. I went to a Jets’ game and just decent tickets (20 yard line), although comped, were valued at $300 for a losing team that was out of the playoff picture. Haven’t been to Ascot in some time, but 45 quid is pricy, but they only race that meet for a few days. The Arc is very cheap. As a general rule, in a day when horse racing is struggling to keep their doors open and often has 100 to 1000 people in attendance, there should be no general admission or parking costs at any track for overnight races. Even track programs should be sold at $1 or whatever the cost is. I would recommend that Stronach pull off a PR coup, giving away 5,000 tickets to low-income seniors, first-responders such as police and fireman, as he will have a mostly vacant building with only 15,000 – and because it is the right thing to do.

        • Pebbles

          Fair points.

          It is all a question of the value of the entertainment. And in this day and age where you can bet online there is not need to be trackside unless you want to see the race in person. If you do it will cost you. The irony is that seats were not selling for much more than double that.

          You may get your PR coup if ticket sales go as you would like them to. But I doubt they do. I bet they sell out.

        • michaelstapler

          I haven’t bought a track program in well over a decade. the DRF has everything you need.

          • Dusty Nathan

            Right, for $5 or $7.50. I am referring to what tracks should charge for a combined program of live with one or two tracks added to the book.

          • michaelstapler

            The problem is that Parx for examplw wants you to wager on Their races, so the tracl program only contains Parx. If you want more tracks, you buy the DRF and play at those tracks.

          • Dusty Nathan

            Very true about Parx book having only the one track. It should include Gulfstream, Laurel or Aqueduct, or two other tracks daily for $1. The object is to give people some information so they can wager. Parx is not in business to make money selling programs like the tobacco shop across the street. Without slots, there would be no such thing as Parx. If you recall, I fought vehemently for fans and horseplayers to get a reduced take-out across the board when Parx got it’s casino license. Everybody got something – except the loyal fans. That is one reason there are fewer fans and there will be even fewer this year, and next, and the year after. (Nothing is “reduced” in PA. With 77 cent a gallon gas tax and $50 tolls to cross the state and 50 cent soda costing $2.00 a bottle. You’re lucky there’s no PA Peter Tax, or there would be days you couldn’t afford to take a leak over there.)

          • Lawrence R

            The DRF provides the racing form free on line to those who wager on DRF bets on line.

        • Lawrence R

          The NFL is not a gambling game ????? Tell it to Vegas and illegal bookmakers all over in this country.

          • Dusty Nathan

            Not by definition, as casinos or horse racing are. To put it another way, let’s say 95 percent of the people at the track are there to bet the horses. In a stadium of 60,000 there might be 5 percent who are gambling. Just as a side note, Lawrence, I looked up how much the NFL generated. “The NFL split a massive $7.24 billion in revenue with all 32 teams last season. Each team received $226.4 million as part of the split, most of which comes from the various television deals.” Each team in a single year got more than BIG racetracks are worth. I was amazed at the cost of things at that Jets’ game. A cardboard-like pizza cost $30. Water was $5. Sodas were $7. Beer was $12. Hot dogs were $8. Parking is $20-$50. A lot of people bet sports, but it is a small fraction compared to those who go to games or watch them on TV. I save the BEST for last: This year the NFL doubled their revenue to $13.6 BILLION. Commissioner Roger Goodell earned a MILLION per week or $50 million.

          • Lawrence R

            I want to keep this brief . There may be racing tomorrow at S.Anita and I want to check out the card. Last year figures on wagering in Las Vegas, on Super Bowl Sunday ,where practically every casino throws parties , $119 million legally wagered. Around the country, some where around 8 x that illegally . We are talking about a $ billion now.Very few states offer sports betting ,if any besides Nevada.
            Kentucky Derby with far less illegal betting because you can bet on the races just about every where, $194 million entire card ,Derby alone $137million.Entire NFL and college wagering on games throughout the season $ 95 billion. I see your point but don”t kid your self FootBall in this country is driven by gambling and TV.{wake up racing industry} You forgot about parking. The last, and I mean last time, I went to Meadowlands it cost $45. to park a mile and a half away.Well it seemed that far. You will find the same prices at Yankee stadium and the same lousy food.

          • Dusty Nathan

            Read my post again, Larry. Didn’t forget about parking.

  • Dusty Nathan

    For weeks his horse couldn’t train because it rained. Baffert is now worried about post position? Not one complaint for any other camp.

    • Lawrence R

      Baffert is not complaining or crying. He is simply stating facts. God !! how you people just must hate him and all of his success.

      • Dusty Nathan

        I do not hate Baffert and there is nothing in my post to indicate it, so that’s in your head. Yes he’s complaining and he’s making excuses up in advance. You didn’t hear this b.s. with American Pharoah and you don’t hear it from the camps of CC or the other contenders. Do you think they too miss a training day? Those others aren’t subject to drawing the outside pp, just Bob? My point is Arrogate is NOT AP, not that Baffert is neurotic or a bad man.

        • Lawrence R

          There is a whole legion of people out there who criticize him ,put words in his mouth ,read his mind and accuse him of every racing crime on the books.Your comment implied that you were coming from that same group. Reporters ask him questions , he replies. Wouldn’t you be concerned about getting stuck on the outside of the field going into that first turn at Gulfstream in a 10 million $ race. You also said he was making up excuses in advance . He needed that w/o and he knew it.Those are not excuses . Those are facts. I rest my case you are a Baffert hater.

          • Dusty Nathan

            Do you want to tell me what to eat for dinner too? I’ll tell you if I dislike somebody. I’ve done 3,862 just in newspapers, according to the recordkeepers. More than 12,000 times when magazines, radio and TV are added in – right, ranked in the Top 10, anywhere and ever. The “facts” that he is being a crybaby with this steed tells me things that are obviously beyond your grasp of understanding. I know Baffert and if this horse was one of his outstanding horses, he wouldn’t worry about a wet-fast SA track, nor would he worry about post. Again, I haven’t heard a word from Art Sherman, except he’d like to race CC for the next year or two. Have you? (Speaking of works, did you see CC’s last work?)

          • Lawrence R

            I’d like to. I doubt they would print it though. Yes I saw it. I also saw his runout. The track was still sealed and they didn’t cut it till later.

          • Dusty Nathan

            Note the time of the last quarter of CC’s work. You’ll never see it again – and it was done without a single blow or drip of sweat. (There is a terrible misconception in the USA, Lawrence. That is, that horses reach their peak as three or four year olds. CC is just now entering his peak. We just never see it anymore, as they are rushed off as infants (3yo’s are like 12-15yo humans). CC may win or lose this race. But if he did race for the next two years he could possibly win $30 million – and that is what Sherman is talking about. I wish Arrogate luck and hope is sound. Yet, I very much doubt you’ll see him as a six year old. Or going from his current $4.4 million to $30 million. Therein lies a difference and who is the draw at Gulfstream. I give all the props to Arrogate for beating this virtual freak. Maybe he’ll do it again.

          • Lawrence R

            Well ,now you are making sense that I understand. I agree with everything you stated. That is precisely my point, CC has never been tested by a really top notch horse because there are none around the “may have beens “are all retired to stud. So here comes a young upstart named Arrogate who looks him in the eye and defeats him.

          • Dusty Nathan

            In my view CC went the tougher trip, setting the fractions. Arrogate was extremely game to make two moves – against this class and this horse. The first move was on the turn to catch the front runners. The second was the lunge near the wire, in a fast clock, AFTER getting repelled at 3/16ths and 1/8th. The shorter distance may help CC, so if Arrogate is going to win he’ll have to move earlier and have a longer sustained move than he has ever needed in order to pass. Although, it wouldn’t surprise me. I don’t bet many races, and this doesn’t appear to be a good betting race. I think one of these two “must” win. Maybe I would play one exacta – without Arrogate – that is paying $21-$25 with CC on top. Or one with Arrogate on top with no CC underneath. This is setting up to be an exciting race. The reason I am rooting for CC is because it may convince his syndicate owners to extend, and ship to Dubai. I expect CC to run the best race of his life, btw.

          • Lawrence R

            Make CC the favorite and let Arrogate go off at 6/5 or better{lots of luck] and I will make a win bet on him. Otherwise I’ll sit back and enjoy the race. I have wagered on this horse from his 1st start

          • Pebbles

            Nice try. Arrogate is the deserved favorite this time. Chrome is the one with something to prove.

          • Lawrence R

            Now I know you know this but I’ll say it anyway .”Horses are not made favorites because they deserve it. The opinons of the betters are what makes post time favorites. The morning line maker tries to guess which way the public is going to go when he publishes his line.My guess is the line maker will have Chrome at 6/5 and Arrogate at 7/5 depending on all 12 going. post time odds i’d guess Chrome at 4/5 Arrogate at even $.

          • Pebbles

            Wait and see who is made tge favorite. The bettors will make Arrogate the post-time favorite.

          • Pebbles

            Chrome has been tested.

            Frosted set a track record in a 9.5 furlong race at Meydan before setting a stakes record in the Met Mile. The plan was to have him lay off Chrome and follow him around the track. It was executed to perfection by William Buick and Chrome with a slipped saddle sprinted away for the win while Frosted came up short in the stretch.

            Dortmund as a 2 year old ran 8.5 furlongs in under 1:41 at Los Alamitos. He is a fast horse. He had the lead like he likes it and he pushed Chrome to the limit in the San Diego Handicap. He is a very good horse who likes the lead and has been rebeling after being forced to rate in his last 3 starts. But he is a top quality horse.

            Chrome faced future Hall of Famer Beholder and Dortmund in the Pacific Classic where he when right to the lead instead of his usual stalking position after drawing inside. They could not keep up with him.

            And Chrome was tested by Arrogate last out and fared very well despite a poor ride from his jockey where his head was spinning around like a top trying to find Arrogate.

          • Lawrence R

            The track record ,especially on the dirt at Meydan was about as meaningless as the track record at Los Al. The Met Mile was without question outstanding, Beholder,as good a mare as she is ,chose ,along with Dortmund, not to contest Chrome on the lead . They were running for 2nd money. Besides Mandella had bigger fish to fry down the road in the Breeders Cup. Dortmund seems to simply be one of those horses running on past reputation. He showed great promise and now just disappoints. Frosted didn’t show up in Dubai and , for what ever reason did not run his best.My point is, Chrome has never been eye ball to eye ball early with a top quality horse. If Arrogate shows up with his best race Chrome could be in trouble.

          • Pebbles

            Respectfully, I think this analysis is too simplistic.

            First, Frosted’s stakes record might be meaningless if he had not run back to his performance in the Met Mile and actually surpassed it. And then he stretched out in the Whitney and did well there too.

            Dortmund ran his career best race against Califiornia Chrome in the San Diego Handicap. He is a talented, good qulaity horse. He was obvioously a bit over the top his next outing in the Pacific Classic and ran like a tired horse from the SDH who was uncomofrtable not setting the pace on the lead. His next outing in the Awesome Again he ran another quality race – his career 2nd best race, but he did not have the kick when competing against a HOF horse.

            Beholder was not always running for 2nd money. It was not until Stevens saw Chrome come out of the gate so sharply that he realized that no one would be catching Chrome that day and he said as amuch.

            Finally, how many horses have been eyeball to eyeball with top quality horses? How many top quality horses have run against each other? How many horses have been eyeball to eyeball with any horses? LOL

            Chrome is a fighter. I have no doubt he will give his best if he meets Arrogate eyeball to eyeball. Has Arrogate ever been eyeball to eyeball with a horse? :-)

          • Lawrence R

            Why yes ,Arrogate was eye ball to eye ball with Ca. Chrome in the Breeders Cup. Simple fact is he beat him. He didn”t just sneak up on him, he simply cruised right by him Chrome was finished and showed no resistance. You can definitely see who was the stronger horse at the finish by watching the run out. Personally, I think many handicappers over analyze a race . My motto is stick to the basics , pace, class, horses condition ,and distance. Perhaps Chrome could have bottomed out the field, but I have a hunch Smith would have been right behind him and the result would have been the same. Perhaps Chrome will turn it around and beat him . He seems to be in primo condition . I wouldn’t be surprised ,just disappointed in Arrogate because I think he is one of the ones.

          • Pebbles

            For a horse to be eyeball to eyeball my friend they need more than a split second. Lol

          • Lawrence R

            Good point. However , it looked to me like Chrome was finished on the runout and had desire to keep up or rematch him.

          • Pebbles

            Well, its purely speculatin. We csn debate forever whether moving earlier, etc. Would have made the difference and mever know. I only. Know that the ride seemed to hirt more than help.

    • Pebbles

      For weeks?

      Arrogate’s work was spaced 10 days instead of 8 and he galloped all but one day when the track was closed because it was unsafe and no horses worked. Where do you get this information that he did not train for weeks?

      • Dusty Nathan

        For weeks he has been complaining about the weather and the track condition. I don’t think the track was terribly bad on any day, including the day it was closed – from what I was told. Then again, I’m not in L.A. anymore. But I’ll be happy to rephrase: “Baffert’s first complaint was about the SA track conditions and missing time, and now he’s complaining about the possibility of an outside draw. He didn’t complain about American Pharoah on Preakness day when it rained so hard before the race that Noah peeked in from Heaven. This tells me that he is trying to maintain a higher profile with Arrogate than the horse’s long term viability suggests on paper. In other words, he’s worried about a loss before they can find 20 suckers to anti up $1 million each.” … How’s that, Pebbles?

        • Pebbles

          As I said, I think Baffert likes to have something to talk about with the media. Most of it is just friendly banter. And only some of it is actually relevant. I think this is more banter. Arrogate is fit and heading to the Pegasus unless something new comes up.

          And as I noted, Baffert had no intention of running in the San Pasquale. It was always Plan B since he did not want to run Arrogate twice in a 4 weeks periood after how hard he works and how hard he runs.

          Regarding the Preakness, different horses. Different races. American Pharoah ran in the Rebel with an off track and loved it. Baffert knew that. Dortmund not so much. And I think he said as much about Dortmund post-race.

    • Moonshine

      Baffert always worries about post position.

  • greg

    I know I’ve posted this several times on different articles but I’ll repeat, I will be surprised if Arrogate ships to FL. and if he does he won’t win. I have seen almost every one of his works, his last 3 are much different than his Pre-BC works, his motion is different and he seems to be working harder that he had, I think Baffert will scratch on the premise “we just missed too much training and it’ll be a long year with many other opportunities” however IF he ships he’s a bet against for me

    • Lawrence R

      Good !! Greg has been reading De Julios notes.

      • greg

        actually I haven’t looked at Bruno’s stuff for over 2 years, if he’s saying the same thing is it possible that 2 (or more) people see the same thing?) BTW, Bruno’s damn good at what he does, make’s me feel even more confident in my post

    • Pebbles

      Get ready to be surprised.

  • Gotchagold

    “you can’t always get what you want, you can’t always get what you want, you can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, well you just might find, you get what you need”
    -The Rolling Stones.
    These lyrics came to mind. Think it should be racing’s creed.

    • Lawrence R

      No. Along with “With a little help from my friends”. Too many drug innuendos. Then again maybe they would be fitting.

    • michaelstapler

      Close enough, although you butchered it a little………

      No, you can’t always get what you want
      You can’t always get what you want
      You can’t always get what you want
      But if you try sometime you find
      You get what you need

      • Gotchagold

        Ah michaelstapler, I think we are both right. I got the lyrics off the internet and your version is the first refrain and mine is the second!:) Just hope Baffert makes up his mind soon.

        • michaelstapler

          Nice catch!!

          • Gotchagold

            I try:)

  • Bryan Langlois

    He does have a large stride, but that may not be as much of an advantage at 9 furlongs as it is 10, and on a track like Gulfstream. Easy Goer had a great stride too, but was at a disadvantage on Gulfstreams track because he could not accelerate well around the turns. CC definitely has the tactical advantage no matter what the draw is (Unless maybe the 1 hole and everyone comes over on him), but Arrogate may just be that good to beat all that. That is why they run the race.

    • Molly Julia

      Bryan – Jockeys Win Races Not Horses – Watch Victor Espinoza & Mike Smith?

      • Bryan Langlois

        In the case of the Classic, yes Smith bested Victor…but it is a combination of talent of horse and rider. Mike Smith is not going to get a 5k claimer to beat CC no matter what. The talent on the horses side has to be there as well.

      • Jack Frazier

        As a former jockey I can tell you that you are not quite right. A good jockey stays out of the way of the horse and lets the horse run. A bad jockey is all over the horse and is more of a hindrance than an asset. A good horse will run for any rider and a bad horse will run for no one. That is the fact. The best jockeys are just passengers who know when to move but sans horsepower, they are not going to win. Some races are determined by the riders when you have equally talented horses but an allowance horse cannot outrun a stake horse and a cheap claimer cannot outrun an allowance horse, I don’t care of you have the reincarnation of Eddie Arcaro riding them.

        • Lost In The Fog – Robert Lee

          I completely agree but as a handicapper if I’m looking at two equally-talented horses and Mike Smith is on one, with Victor Espinoza on the other, I’ll bet on Mike every time.

          • Jack Frazier

            I like both but Mike is the now money rider and outthinks most of the jocks.

        • Lawrence R

          Arcaro ,when asked why he didn’t move sooner, he replied “I wasn’t allowed to get off the horse.”

          • Jack Frazier

            The Master always had good lines. Once when he was called in for putting another rider over the rail, when asked if he knew he might kill the other rider side, “I was trying to kill the SOB.” Got a year for that one.

          • Lawrence R

            I watched Arcaro go down in the slop. mud or whatever on Black Hills in the Belmont stakes while on the lead. Bobbie Stovall was credited for steering his mount around him & the rest of the field followed saving him from probable serious injury.

          • Jack Frazier

            Best jockey ever. Period.

        • michaelstapler

          I’d listen to this guy. If my memory serves, Jack used to workout horses for Lukas. winning Colors comes to mind.

        • Pebbles

          Can you comment on Espinoza’s ride in the BC Classic? I thought it was awful with the way he was looking around, the way he did not warm up the horse, and the way he did not move to create space coming out of the turn. I also wonder what you think of his not riding Chrome to the finish in many of his races.

          • Jack Frazier

            I wondered why he didn’t ride to the wire. It looked to me as if he was over confident and rode a poor race. He should have prevailed and would have had he opened up more when CC changed leads coming out of the turn. Usually a horse accelerates when they do that and all trainers and riders want a horse to change leads, otherwise they lose momentum. It is because a muscle uses all the glycogen and fatigues on that side, which is why trainers want riders to make the horse change leads so they don’t fatigue. Espinosa has had a habit of not riding CC to the wire. Smith knew that and just waited for it to happen. Once a horse has momentum, as Arrogate did, and is moving faster than the horse in front of them, it is hard for the horse on the lead to regain momentum. I knew at about the 1/16th pole, when Arrogate was moving and had momentum and Espinosa had not asked CC to run, it was over. In the races previous to the Classic, Espinosa had eased him well before the finish line and since I know that horses are creatures of habit, CC thought the race was over. I still think CC is the better of the two horses but on this day, Smith gave a lesson in race riding, and he is a master of that.

          • Pebbles

            Thanks very much for the insights.

          • Jack Frazier

            You are welcome.

      • Lawrence R

        No !! NO !! No!! Jockeys do not win races !!! Horses win races.
        Jockies can only cause a horse to lose. ” For the want of a horse the battle was lost. ” The worst jockey in a race can easily beat the best jockey ,when he has a better horse.

        • michaelstapler

          My Father said it best….. “When they start putting the jockeys on the bottom, then I will start betting on them”.
          Never has a statement been so true.

    • Pebbles

      Arrogate can win at 8, 9 or 10 just as easily.

      I just do not buy that he is distance compromised.

      Granted, Chrome’s experience gives him an edge. But Arrogate has been moving forward very well and maturing nicely. This is his race to lose and Chrome has something to prove.

  • Molly Julia

    Will – Arrogate Scratch Before The Race Giving California Chrome A Hand Ride?

  • Leonard

    ARROGATE is fine, all this talk of not looking the same since B.C., doesn’t appear to be traveling right is all nonsense, he will be in the starting gate, besides without him the race falls apart. It turns into over rated runners or one’s that have seen better days but it’s time to go. 12 million on the line & you can bet BIG RACE MIKE SMITH & PUT THE MONEY DOWN BAFFERT will be there to collect another big purse. I especially love the distance for ARROGATE who will be on the lead & wire the field just as he did in Travers. C.C. has no chance to match strides with him or her will come up empty come stretch time. ARROGATE is the new King of the mountain & needs to dispelled all this crazy talk & make believers once an for all he is the real deal.

    • Mr. Blues

      I hope they go off side by side

    • Lawrence R

      All the talk originated from a De Julio post. He is a damn good clocker and I hope he is wrong.That last w/o was prior to the 1st race sat. They did not open the surface until after the !,st or 2nd race that day. That in it self could have effected how the horse traveled.
      Personally I thought when Garcia asked him for the run out (137 ) he responded big time..

  • Leonard

    This race is shaping up like the SAN [email protected] Anita in 2015 with SHARED BELIEF & C.C.& all the hype for C.C. & we all know how that turned out. This race has the same heir to it, lightly raced SHARED BELIEF & the more seasoned C.C…. Hmm….. sounds like a sequel but this time the lightly raced runner is ARROGATE & most likely we’ll have Victor standing up in the saddle real early like he’s known to do when he is going to lose. After all why would JUDDMONTE pay COOLMORE $1.5 million for their spot in the starting gate if ARROGATE wasn’t coming.

  • Jack Frazier

    The only worry about the starting gate at Gulfstream is whether he is in it, not which position. A good horse does not need to have a particular gate to do well. This is pure hyperbole.

    • Pebbles

      You are right on the money. Baffert loves to get media attention. His pesonality is great for the sport.

      • Jack Frazier

        But in this instance it looks as if he is laying the groundwork for not running. He does love the attention. Just wish he were more articulate. Lukas was the master of interviews and all others pale in comparison.

        • Pebbles

          If Wayne Lukas would ever retire he could be one of the best horse racing commentaors ever.

          I think he likes to keep people guessing. That is why I alwways thought the San Pasquale was Plan B for him. After the BCC he said that he wanted Arrogate to have 10 weeks between races. Now that could have been blarney, but I did not think it was. I thought he was being honest. Thus, when he came out after the sharp December work and suggested that Arrogate might have to run before the Pegasus, I was skeptical. And then he did not run, and I was not surprised at all. with Baffert even noting afterwards that he did not see Arrogate having any problem at all with running in the slop.

          • Jack Frazier

            On this I am on the fence. Most trainers don’t want their plans out for public consumption so maybe he is just playing the media. I don’t know. I do know that one race is equal to three works and that ten weeks between appearances in a Grade I or stake, is a gamble. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I think, my opinion, he would be tighter for the PGC if he had a race under him otherwise he may be running a short horse. Slop? I don’t know. Big horses generally have a tougher time on an off track than a lighter, smaller horses with smaller feet can skip over it, and Arrogate is a behemoth. With his size he most likely wears the largest shoes that can be bought, ala Shaq’s size 19 or 20.

          • Pebbles

            Lukas is always a consumate professional. I have only spoken to him a couple of times about his horses. I have to admit that with his sunglasses and tailored suits he makes an imposing image. Like his protege, Todd Pletcher, I do not want to bother him with unnecessary prattle. But each time I spoke with him he has been polite, articulate, kind and thoughtful in his reply.

          • Jack Frazier

            He is the consummate professional. He has forgotten more about training than the majority of those who profess to be trainers. In the years I worked for him, I found that he was totally hands on, unlike some who only look at the works and not how the barn operates. He was there from 4:30 until time to get ready for the afternoon’s races. There is no one, no like D. Wayne Lukas.

          • Pebbles

            I hope I get to see himi again at Saratoga this year. If I do, I will make certain to offer some kind words to him for how much I appreciate his contributions to the sport.

          • Jack Frazier

            Hope you do as well. He is a class act.

          • Lawrence R

            A class act who paid the highest for the best hands.Ran an immaculate stable all decked out in his green & white colors. Made most of the other operations look like skid row.

          • Lawrence R

            On sat Santa Anita was a sealed sloppy mess. Many trainers were running with stickers .Sunday Baffert worked his horse prior to the 1st race and they had not cut the track yet . I wonder if he put stickers .on the horse.

          • Jack Frazier

            D. Wayne is articulate, knowledgeable and one of the great ambassadors for the sport. He is one of a kind as well. I have heard interviews and analysis by some trainers that make me close my eyes and wonder if they can utter two coherent sentences in a row. Should he retire, which he won’t, he would be the best analyst ever. I am a bit prejudiced because I have always thought, since I first met him in Claremore, Oklahoma in 1965-66, that he was heads above anyone I had ever known in racing, and I was very fortunate and blessed to work for him during that great run he had in the 1980’s.

      • Moonshine

        In my observation, when Baffert speaks of a horse with reservations, he’s high on the horse, and just making sure every i is dotted and t is crossed. He wants to make sure HE doesn’t get the horse beat, so his public comments are careful. With a talented horse that’s a bit more vulnerable, Baffert tends to do more of the hype act.

    • katwalk

      Perhaps the point is not whether or not he is a good horse, but rather the very good horse he is running against. . . . Mike Smith said the same thing 2 weeks ago in regards to the post position and the first turn.

      • Jack Frazier

        Arrogate may be the next big horse. He looks the part but CC’s connections don’t cry about post position, track conditions, weights, which track or any number of other factors. He shows up and gives his best and doesn’t make excuses. Old school.

  • ctgreyhound

    Don’t get me started. Arrogate is dangerous from a-n-y-w-h-e-r-e, even the next county. Let’s face it (and I’m all in for Chrome), it’s his race to loose. His record, short as it is, speaks for itself. Baffert, stop bloviating.

  • David Worley

    Baffert’s comments read like the precursor for why Arrogate won’t be running in the PWC. If Arrogate doesn’t run (or isn’t at his best) is there any other horse with a better than 10% chance of beating Chrome?

    • Lost In The Fog – Robert Lee

      How do you draw that conclusion from his comments? He’s correct that the innermost post positions are better than the outer post positions at 1 1/8 miles at GP. Any seasoned handicapper, let alone trainer, knows this to be true. How does BB making that obvious observation equate to a precursor for why Arrogate won’t be running?

      • David Worley

        Your point cuts both ways. It’s such an obvious point why would this be the subject of your conversation with a reporter? This bigger issues is that I think Arrogate has lost weight since the BC and he just doesn’t look as sharp as he did going into the Breeder’s Cup. I think Baffert is hedging with his comments; but I very well may be wrong. In fact, based on my life, the odds are that I am wrong about this and MANY other things. :)

        • Lost In The Fog – Robert Lee

          David, either of us could be wrong or right on this. It wouldn’t be the first time for either of us :-)

          I’d add one more thing to this discussion, and it comes from my perspective as a former journalist. We often read an indidivdual quote from a public figure and assign a heightened importance to it in the absence of the full context of the actual interview that took place. In this particular case, you and I are reading an article on the Paulick Report which sources the quote from a very short article on Skysports which in turn sources their quotes from an article from At The Races.

          Paulick gives us a link to the Skysports article but Skysports doesn’t give us a link to the At The Races article. For all we know, in the original interview Baffert may have been asked a specific question about the implication of the upcoming post position draw and responded appropriately to that question with the same answer Art Sherman or other trainers would have given if asked the same question.

          • David Worley

            Good point about interviewing and the particular context out of which the comment was made.

            My larger point is that something doesn’t quite seem right with Arrogate.

        • Mary (M.R.) Perdue

          Arrogate didn’t get the planned race in him as the track was too sloppy on San Pasqual day. Everything I’ve heard and read since makes it sound like the horse wants to run so bad he’s about to jump out of his skin. If that’s the case, he’ll win IMO. But I’m wrong about many things too!

  • Michelle Gorth

    The 2 fastest horses in the world and we try to predict the races winner. We all want to be right and say, “I told you so”. This act makes us feel special…Predicting a horse will be scratched or lame, because of the weather or post draw. Coulda, whoulda and shoulda will not be racing and I don’t care if you want to be special. These people types are mostly losers and support the winners, just the way it is. I’ll attend the Pegasus, to watch and wager on this historic event, where the 2 favorites will be at even money, give or take. This isn’t about who is going to win, but all about who will win place and show.

  • Kathryn R Wilt

    Not so sure about the formula for the Peg Cup.The tickets are pretty pricey for an untested event. Not so sure about the weather. Not so sure about the quality of four other horses.
    Sure about Junior.
    Sure hoping to change my mind about the aforementioned. Excepting Junior.Pretty sure about him.

  • Lost In The Fog – Robert Lee

    Baffert makes an observation relating to the importance of post positions at the distance of 1 1/8 miles at Gulfstream because of the short run to the first turn and many of you go “full conspiracy theory” on the comment or attack him as if he is whining. He’s not complaining, he’s not threatening to scratch the horse if he draws an outside post but rather he’s stating the obvious – that he’s hoping to draw one of the innermost post positions. What’s the problem? Don’t you think Chrome’s connections and many of the other runners’ connections are hoping the same for their horses? Many of the comments in the thread are just silly and fueled by a general dislike of Baffert (which is fine) but there’s nothing wrong or controversial about the specifics of his comments in this case.

    • Lawrence R

      I agree 100% No make that 1,000 %. They don”t just dislike him, they hate him with a passion. I guess when they bet a against a trainer or jockey and constantly lose it builds up insides them. Haters are losers.

  • ManO’War77

    I’d have really liked to see Melatonin run in this Pegasus field, I was quite impressed with his consistent pass with chrome for the BCC until he tired out in the last stretch but he hadn’t run in 4 months so I’m thinking had he been in better conditioning form and had run a more recent race prior to the BCC, I really think he’d have come in the money… He impressive gold cup win time was outstanding and had he maintained that same speed pace in the BCC he could’ve possibly been the shocker in the BCC… They have him set to run in February for the San Antonio but I really think he should’ve been trained up to run in the Pegasus I think if he can remain healthy and conditioned he could definitely be the horse to beat based on his equine speed, for 2017 so I’m hoping he runs in the Dubai or even at the least minute runs in the Pegasus although not likely but nonetheless does anyone agree regarding Melatonin ability? Also I’m thinking for this race they should’ve let Frosted run and then have retired him as this is the distance he generally excels in… Does anyone agree?

  • Dusty Nathan

    If it was that a big of deal they could move the gate down the stretch an 1/16 or 1/8th of a mile – which wouldn’t be a bad idea for $12 million, as the first turn should not be the determiner of the result. Otherwise it’s talk, just to exercise the jaw muscles.

  • joeyinempirestate

    Just like in the harness game, you use a quick brush to your advantage, and try to discourage the grinder by opening up 4 or 5 lengths on the turn and blast your way home. That’s Chrome’s ideal trip.

  • Mary (M.R.) Perdue

    That work doesn’t make me jump for joy but doesn’t look like he was really being asked.

    • David Worley

      Does he look thinner to you?

      • Mary (M.R.) Perdue

        Not really sure. All I know is that Baffert likes to talk down his horses. Remember when American Cleopatra went off at 7 to 1 in her maiden and romped?

  • TimTamTed

    #1 post for Arrogate is not a problem,and more of an asset.If you watch the Travers,he broke OK,built some some early speed,rated a tad,and by the first turn got the lead and never looked back.That field was better than this one,not to mention the BCClassic field.Victor will have to navigate with Chrome,out of pp #12,and if he could get him out of traffic,it’s game on.Would love to see Chrome go out on a high note,but it’s gonna tough,because Mike knows he’s sitting on a beast, and he can rate,then turn that beast loose. I can see Arrogate by 4 lengths,when the dirt settles. Just my opinion.Godspeed to all.

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