Arrogate Will Retire To Stud At Juddmonte After Breeders’ Cup Classic

by | 10.10.2017 | 5:42pm
Dubai World Cup winner Arrogate

Juddmonte Farms announced Tuesday that Breeders' Cup Classic-bound Arrogate, the defending Classic Champion, will retire to stud at Juddmonte US in Lexington Kentucky, after the Breeders' Cup at Del Mar.

A winner of four Grade 1 events including: the Grade 1 Travers Stakes by 13 1/2 lengths, in track record time in his stakes debut – the $6,000,000 BC Classic over 2 time Horse of the Year California Chrome, posting a -1 Ragozin sheet figure – the $12,000,000 Pegasus World Cup Invitational Stakes by 4 3/4 lengths, and the $10,000,000 Dubai World Cup, in a race where World Cup race caller Terry Spargo described Arrogate as “the Man o' War of the 21st century”. The Eclipse champion 3YO colt has amassed career earnings to date of $17,302,600 and earned the title: Longines World's Best Racehorse, in both 2016 and 2017.

By Breeders' Cup Juvenile winner and Champion sire Unbridled's Song out of the Distorted Humor mare Bubbler, he hails from the immediate family of Eclipse Champion 2YO filly, Meadow Star.

Hall of fame trainer Bob Baffert said of Arrogate: “That's the greatest horse I've ever seen run.”

Juddmonte's Manager Garrett O'Rourke commented that “Arrogate is training forwardly towards his next start in the Classic, as witnessed by his bullet workout today.”

A stud fee has yet to be announced.

  • Pete McLaughlin

    Hypothetical question….if Arrogate wins the BC Classic, then retires, what does that do as far as public interest in the Pegasus Stakes in early 2018? Does the average racing fan care how big the purse is if the “best” horse(s) doesn’t participate?

    • Bryan Langlois

      Considering how there are still over half the starting slots to be purchased…I think your question goes deeper than just the fan and begs the question if the horseman themselves are interested in such a race. This was always the big concern I think with the concept. They got lucky last year with Arrogate and Chrome competing in it. If those two were not there, what would the intrigue for the race be?? It would have been a Grade 3 stakes race field…if that.

      • Always Curious

        Then an import may just win it.

      • Beau Geste

        It’s amazing that the only thing people mention when talking about the Pegasus Stakes is the money. It’s the only thing that makes it special. At the same time, as many times as I have heard people talk about the Kentucky Derby, I can’t recall the emphasis ever being on the purse. It takes tradition to make a race a classic in the true sense of the word. The Breeders Cup was unbelievably lucky with it’s inaugural running. It more than lived up to the dream. The same goes for the Arlington Million. After all these years, I’m still not sure who won that race, John Henry or The Bart. It’s going to take more than the biggest purse in racing. It’s going to take a race for the ages to make the Pegasus really special for horse racing fans.

        • NMBird

          Same thing with Ascot! What an eye opener that was for me…to watch every day and get totally caught up in it all and the incredible racing!!

          We’ll have to see how long the Pegasus even lasts…

        • Tango F

          Indeed … it took Spend A Buck’s owner to make them even think about the purse

    • frank graziano

      Hypothetical Question #2…. if Arrogate blows away the field in the Classic and retires, would more owners be willing to put up the money for the Pegasus, knowing they have a better chance to make a profit ?

      • Meydan Rocks

        I’ll be frantically searching for a syndicate to join. :-)

      • Jay Stone

        That is probably the correct assumption.

      • Beau Geste

        If Baffert can get Arrogate back to where he can blow away the field in the Breeders Cup Classic, I would hope they would run him once more in the Pegasus. That would be fantastic.

      • Tango F

        yawn ….

        • frank graziano

          If it bores you, skip it Numbnut.

          • Tango F

            Your question is the numbing factor

    • Always Curious

      Loses my interest, what remains. lol This year has been a mess IMHO. Where have all the horses gone????

      • Mary (M.R.) Perdue

        Gone to stud farms every one.

        • Tom Davis

          Let’s hope the next line in the song doesn’t apply. “Where have all the stud farms gone, gone to flowers every one”.

        • Lehane

          A sign of the times which is not in the best interests of racing. In recent years in Australia i’ve noticed more and more highly successful colts having very short careers. Too much of a hurry to get them into the breeding barn.

    • Ida Lee

      There is a question out there as to who is the “Best” horse ….I like the Pegasus …. it’s a lot of fun just seeing who will take the challenge and who partners up to enter a horse….

    • Michael Beauregard

      I don’t think there will be a Pegasus this year. Not the way they boned the fans last year I for one will not be going.

    • Joe Sollitto

      Not sure about tyhe public interest, but without a “sure” winner, I would expect the owner interest to increase, as there should be a decent shot at winning for a lot of horses. Is Gun Runner a “lock” without Arrogate? I guess that the Classic will provide further clues?

      As far as the “best” – well, that can be said of a lot of races, including the BC Classic itself. How many years have we been disappointed to find that the “best” horses have to skip the Cup for one reason or another? The 2015 Classic was one of the weakest fields in memory – almost every decent horse, except for AP of course, were not in the starting gate that day.

      Let’s take a look at the Pacific Classic. There have been more clunkers than “classics” during its existence, but it still exists. Let’s give someone who is at least trying to do something positive in racing a few years before we throw in the towel, again.

  • Ida Lee

    Oh Drat….there goes another one …. the good part is that at least I’ll get a chance to see Arrogate next year on my annual trip to Lexington….BTW …. “the Man O’War of the 21st Century”….that’s downright sacrilegious …. Man O’War was one of a kind….no comparison …..

    • Marilyn Shively

      I agree no comparison

    • Marlaine Meeker

      Man o’ War lost only the one race and that was probably due to shenanigans, his included. But he learned his lesson and never let it happen again

      • Tom Davis

        They had walk up starting positions back then. No gates. The jockey turned him around to rewalk up to the starting line and the race started when MOW was facing the wrong way. Still lost only by a head.

      • Tango F

        They also suspended both jockeys for a year

    • Always Curious

      I can’t believe he said that! MOW possessed and passed stamina through his line. Bob must not been thinking straight for some reason. Maybe he was being sarcastic. I would have. What a joke.

      • Tango F

        it is just Bob-spin, as usual

      • discopartner

        When you brag you set yourself up.

    • Beau Geste

      Terry Spargo is an Australian. He was probably searching for a horse racing name that everyone could recognize as great. Having said that, I would agree that it was a mistake.

  • Ruffian31

    I don’t think there was any doubt about this, just surprised it took them this long to announce it.

    • Tinky

      They were likely waiting to see whether he would be retired before or after the BC…

      • Tango F

        I doubt he runs the race

  • whirlaway

    Does anyone think the Pegasus will last more than 5yrs. Based on the cost to be in the race I would be surprised if it will and the conditions that if you don’t have a horse make it to the race the deal has to be worked on to try to sell the place in the gate or cut some type of deal.

    • Tom Davis

      We’ll have to wait and see what happens.

      • whirlaway

        Yes we will typical of horse racing and life. I am good with waiting.

    • jarmstead

      No… they were fortunate to have Arrogate/Chrome in the inaugural year. Who is going to pay $1 M to race against what Baffert still has left in his stable?

      Even Collected, West Coast, et al… are not enough (with Gun Runner) to fill that field.

      • whirlaway

        Not being negative but standing the test of time will be a challenge based on the dynamics of buying a spot. It was a major gift the first year to have Arrogate/Chrome
        and even though the race did not take place as fans hoped that is one of the risks of any sporting event not just horse racing. Could be a very good concept but the cost to be there is a big factor to consider.

      • discopartner

        “I don’t even know if he’s still in his employ”. What kind of a crack is that? Are YOU still in anyone’s employ? Neolithic came in 3rd in the race.

        And who cares if YOU can’t “think up” more names? Shaman Ghost, several 3 yo’s could be in it, Gunnevera, Classic Empire if available, Tapwrit. Others you know nothing about because it’s clear you only follow Bob Baffert’s horses, who are not as good as you think.

  • todd fortune

    Do not see him making the BCC. He is going the wrong way. People that saw his work said he was not strong. Not possible to win this race with anything other than your best effort and something is inhibiting him now that was not there 12 months ago.

    • Neigh Sayer

      That’s actually not true. He was lumbering along into the lane and the rider asked him just a bit outside the eighth pole and he really reached and extended himself and got the last eighth in just over 11. I’d say that’s pretty strong.

    • NMBird

      He looked more focused the other day and didn’t do that little “veer” as he made the turn as he had in previous workouts…if that comes under what you mean by “strong.”

  • TimTamTed

    Reading the sarcastic remarks regarding Arrogate being compared to Man o’ War,is just as insulting as the repulsion that those people exude,in their comments.Why does that even have to be brought up,anyway ? What’s the problem with praising a horse,that at that point in time,was doing things that haven’t been seen in generations ? It sounds more like sour grapes,as opposed to acknowledging greatness,albeit,in a small sample size.Tell me,is it Arrogate’s fault that people have made comments,and or comparisons, to some of the greats of yesteryear ? His incredible Dubai performance deserved every single accolade that came his way.Why can’t you just let go of the hate,Chrome fans,and admit that Big A reached a height,in such a short amount of time,that Chrome had NEVER,EVER reached.Why do I think it’s Chromies ? Because any knowledgeable,level headed,unbiased horseracing enthusiast,would recognize,and acknowledge the greatness we were lucky enough to be alive for,and witness.Don’t make believe he didn’t shatter the all time Travers track record in his first graded stakes appearance,or didn’t get up to beat the best horse in America (Chrome),in the BCClassic as a 3yr.old,or didn’t dust the best horses money could buy in the Pegasus,or come out of the clouds,when all seemed lost at the start,only to pick off,one by one,the best horses in the world,and win with incredible ease,when all was said and done.Well,sorry,but they all happened,and there’s nothing anyone can do to change it,Amen.

    • Beau Geste

      I was lucky enough to pick Arrogate to win the Travers and in the process look like a genius to some non-horse racing friends. I have been an unwavering fan to this day. I would never criticize Arrogate, but at the same time, I have never mentioned even Secretariat in the same breath as Man O’ War. He’s simply in another horse racing universe. I think the announcer just over reached.

      • Ida Lee

        I read your comment after replying to Tim Tam Ted ….. seems we think alike…some horses to me are just sacred ….Man O’War is one….Secretariat is another….I don’t compare them either……they’re one of kind in their own right….

        • Beau Geste

          We are of one mind. Comparisons between eras is unfair to everyone. I wish people would simply value each and every one of these greats.

          • TimTamTed

            Exactly right.Every great American horse is an icon in their own right.The ONLY time we can compare horses,is when they run against each other.

          • Tango F

            Except that intelligent, experienced horsemen CAN compare, and MOW and Secretariat are not comparable to anything since.

          • TimTamTed

            No,not comparable,is right.Because they both only ran 2 years.I’ll give you great : The ultimate Iron Horses; Citation,Seabiscuit,Phar Lap,Damascus,The Bid,Kelso,Dr.Fager,Buckpasser,Swaps,Forego,Whirlaway.I will stop there,because the dance is over,Tango.

          • Tango F

            You grasp. And actually deflate Arrogate with your comment. I don’t know what you are trying to prove, but debating must not be your forte`

          • TimTamTed

            Grasp,eh ? To say a horse is the greatest that ever was,and has run for only 2 years,wouldn’t be a true horseman’s opinion.A horse that maintains the highest level at 4,5,6,or even 7 years old,is more the definition of great.There are eclipse awards for best 3yr.old male,as there are for best older male horse.With that in mind,when evaluating a horse to be considered the very best all time,two 3yr.olds are at the top.There should be separate categories for the very best 3yr.old ever,and the best older horse ever.Why shouldn’t a horse like Kelso be considered the best all time ? Five time horse of the year.Are you kidding me ? A horse has a better chance of winning the Belmont by 35 lengths,that a horse being named HOTY 5 years in a row ! Do you get the point,or is your mind so limited,that there’s no room for expansion ?

          • whirlaway

            Never do I post on past versus present. While I am a big fan of many modern day horses there is no comparison from the past especially when horses raced longer and in more races often lugging heavy weight. Horses of old did things not imagined
            today. Both Whirlaway and Citation ran in races between the Preakness and Belmont
            Citation winning the Jersey Derby by 11 lengths, two days before the Belmont Whirlaway worked 1 1/4 in 2:02.40. Today’s racing is quite different. I am still
            a big long time fan but I have had to accept the management of most horses today
            has changed. BTW good for you on backing Arrogate in the Travis very good call by you, a bit of luck maybe but you deserve some credit. 🏆

          • Shirley Mae Keller Verhoef

            Yes, and somehow we are supposed to be IMPROVING the breed!!

          • whirlaway

            Right, I am not even sure the breeders are united to do that. When stallions such as
            Sir Gallahad, Princequillo, Nasrullah, Blenheim were imported the syndicate was breeders like Calumet,Greentree, Claiborne,etc that raced against each other as Sportsman that raced their racehorses. There were sales but not the magnitude of today. Had WW 1 not happened August Belmont Jr never would have sold his 1918
            yearlings including Man O’War when he went back to the Military. Prize race mares were not sold in droves. After all these mares were the future of the racing stables.
            Racing was still for the rich but the end goal of old time stables was not selling yearlings for big sums but improving the bloodlines and quality of their horses and
            winning prestigious important races. That may still exist today but the commercial
            end of breeding horses makes a very big difference in the sport.

          • Erin Casseday

            Here here!!!! Words of wisdom!

        • NMBird

          Totally agree, Ida Lee! They are not only one of kind in their own right, they are also partly a “creation” of the times they raced in.
          But over the decades, they do stand out even as many fine, even great, horses, that have raced over the years.

          • Ida Lee

            Oh yeah….we have loved many….for instance….how could we not love Wise Dan or let’s go back to the great John Henry and Cigar…I mean really….what about Pharoah and Curlin and Chrome ……we love these guys and how about the girls Ruffian, Geuine Risk, Zenyatta, Rachel, Havre de Grace.. and the Aussie girls Black Caviar and Winx…..how could we not love and admire these great Champions…no need to compare them…..they’re special all by themselves …

          • NMBird

            Yup!
            And, frankly, I love any horse that goes out and runs his or her heart out..win or lose, they go out and risk their lives…a false step, a bump, a lousy track, a momentary distraction…all can lead to disaster.

            I think each season should start with a ceremony with wishes and words sending all horses ontheir way safely and end each season with a ceremony celebrating safe returns as well as those who have had injuries or lost their lives.
            It’s the least the industry could do… It would add a tradition that could be really inspiring…

          • Ida Lee

            Before every race I see, I close my eyes and ask the Lord to protect the athletes, both equine and human….the way I see, it can’t hurt…..we all went through a lot with Barbaro…I’ve always thought he would be a TC winner…..and Eight Belles …. the shock of her breakdown still is one of the worse days of my life …. I still have their photos hanging in my home…horse racing is so different than other sports…..here the fans literally fall in love with the equine athlete….even knowing we’re going to get hurt eventually when they retire or sometimes worse ….we still come back for more …. all because ” …there is something about the outside of a horse which is good for the inside of a man…”

          • NMBird

            Well said…they carry a spirit which we want to travel along with as they run against the wind…

    • Rue de Jean

      So, you’re an Arrogate fan…I see.

      • TimTamTed

        And you are ???

        • Tango F

          Rue de Jean is obviously more of a realist

          • TimTamTed

            And you madam, are rude.Thing is,tomorrow I will wake up open minded and cordial,and you madam will still be rude.

    • Ida Lee

      I brought up the Man O’War comment because it’s ridiculous to compare a modern day horse like Arrogate or anyone for that matter to a legend….and since this is an opinion blog, we give our opinion …..and I don’t see any sarcasm in my statement or anyone replying to my statement…..we were all pretty clear on it ….BTW this in no way is a dis on one of my favorite all-time Beast….the spectacular Arrogate….

      • TimTamTed

        I’ve been a horseracing fan for over 50 years.I don’t believe in comparing horses,especially from totally different eras.The iron horse days are gone,and we’re left with the excellent horses running some 8 – 12 times at best.All we have are small sample sizes to reflect on,because of the value of an excellent stud in the breeding shed.That’s the thoroughbred world we live in today.I’ve seen some great horses in my time,and I think I know a great one when I see one.I will never waiver on my thoughts regarding Arrogate,no matter how small the sample size may be.

        • Ida Lee

          Thanks for your comment….I agree 100%….it’s obvious you’re a fan of the super beast Arrogate….what’s not to like…beautiful, talented, charismatic….but sometimes I wonder what we’re breeding here in the US…..that Aussie super mare Winx races every couple of weeks and she looks just fine….our future superstar in the making, the monster called Bolt d’Oro is a juvenile, has raced 3x and already has a breeding deal….what are the chances we’ll be seeing this boy race at 4 ???

          • TimTamTed

            I know,it’s sad.Greed has taken over.It’s so obvious,because as soon as a young horse turns heads,the bookings for his stud value,begin.I see people talking about the greats of yesteryear,and how often they ran.That makes me sad,because we’ll never see another Kelso again.It’s almost comparable to reflecting on your childhood…we’ll never get those years back.

        • Tango F

          Then explain Winx – how on earth does she manage to put together a string of 21 wins in this modern era of “the excellent horses running some 8 – 12 times at best” … poppycock. And you know it

          • Lehane

            Winx has now had 31 starts with 25 wins and 3 second placings.

          • Tango F

            Even better … how many starts does Bob’s “best horse he’s ever seen” have?

          • TimTamTed

            Guess what Gaye,you’re BUSTED !!!!

          • Tango F

            Barbara! How many do you have, now? TTT, UTT, WO, frank, rodney … the list is long! Your next screen name should be Sybil, or massivecaboose… or maybe Bob’sPRGurl…

          • TimTamTed

            Hmmm…seems like I struck a nerve.

          • TimTamTed

            AMERICAN HORSES !!!! What is your problem ??? Where the hell are you from ?

        • Larry Ensor

          I agree. For the majority of racing’s history in this country the best of the best ran against pretty much the best of the best. They did’t pick their spots and run against mostly “also rans”. They ran 8-12 times in a matter of a couple of months. Not in a year or even 2 years as seems to be the norm these days.

    • Susan

      Not to worry, Arrogate isn’t insulted either way as he doesn’t read.

      • Cuffdaddy

        Baffert also said that Arrogate can read and Man O War cannot so that is why he really made the comparison

        • ForLoveOfTheGame

          LOL!!!!

        • Tango F

          snap!

    • Tango F

      He is NOT comparable to either Secretariat OR Man O War.
      That is just fact
      The hype from his trainer is rather pathetic

      • Neigh Sayer

        How did you feel when Art Sherman said, Chrome is the greatest horse to ever race.

        • Judoon

          That was an asinine comment. I wouldn’t put him in the top hundred.

          • TimTamTed

            Uh,I think you missed the point.

        • Tango F

          How does that relate to Bob Baffert?
          It doesn’t.

      • TimTamTed

        Baffert said “GREATEST HORSE SINCE SECRETARIAT”,not “BETTER” than him ! Calling the best American trainer “pathetic” for his comment at that point in time,when it seemed more accurate than not,only shows your vitriol regarding him,and Arrogate…let alone the fact that his horse did something the entire horseracing world will never forget.You included.I’ll bet if Baffert read your comment,,he would think you’re simply a Chrome fan,and that your comment was rather pathetic.

        • lastromntribune

          Arrogate IS the BEST horse since BIG RED……believe what you want

          • affirmed

            well you might be right,however I still do not feel that this is the greatest Horse ever, as stated by Baffert! yes he could be the Best horse since big red, but not the greatest Race Horse ever! I understand Arrogate will be retired after the breeders cup? well I have just finished” baking a sendoff Cake for Him Arrogate”, putting the icing on this cake .. the cake is “Gun Runner” , and will beat Arrogate for his send off Party!.. just as Arrogate beat California Chrome for his send off party! its a changing of the guards, it happens all the time!

          • Lehane

            California Chrome was displaying that all was not well with him before he went into the gates for his last race and it was no surprise that he suffered an injury.

          • TimTamTed

            Hey,I love Gun Runner,but he won’t even beat West Coast or Collected,let alone the A Train.

          • NMBird

            Some are thinking Winx maybe pretty good, too….

          • TimTamTed

            You can’t possibly be talking to me ???

        • Tango F

          Bob saw Secretariat run.
          Bob says his horse is “the best he has ever seen”
          Bob is kookoo

          • TimTamTed

            Yeah ?And I suppose you’re a better trainer than that kookoo ? Another Baffert & Arrogate hater. Oh well,no matter your opinion,Arrogate beat Chrome TWICE.You just can’t find it in your wacked out DNA to deal with it.Who’s the real kookoo ?

          • Tango F

            The only person who mentioned Chrome is YOU
            The Baffert fans just cannot get over him, can they?

          • TimTamTed

            Huh ??? Where the hell are you coming from,with that Baffert statement ? That makes no sense at all,Gaye !

          • Tango F

            “Ted”
            LOL!

        • discopartner

          It’s not hard to forget those races if you’re not an Arrogate fan.

          • TimTamTed

            Huh ? Any true horseracing fan will never forget.I am an avid AP fan,but I will never forget Frosted’s Met Mile.

          • discopartner

            That’s another forgettable race.

        • Minneola

          Nice try but you are not fooling many of us who have seen your posts in the past. And, putting that bit of fiction in your avatar doesn’t fly, either. Arrogate is very good horse but will never be considered anywhere close to great. Great horses race longer and win more than just the brief career that this horse has amassed.

          • TimTamTed

            The only “fooling” is your statement.It actually contradicts itself.Why ? “Great horses race longer “,is YOUR statement,right ?Arrogate will have run at 3,and 4yrs.old…two years total.Man o’War& Secretariat,also ran for two years total.Yes,they ran more often,but today’s American horseracing has changed considerably,and you darn well know it.Not the horse’s fault.To put things in perspective,the great Kelso ran through his 7th year.Winning HOTY 5 times !! So,the obvious conclusion would be that Kelso was the greatest American thoroughbred of all time.Right ? Thank you for making my point,though you had no idea,that you made it,lol ! Oh,and what business is it of yours what my avatar is? And why would you even defame it ?There’s truth in the “Ted”,if in fact, that’s what you’re referring to.I was nicknamed Ted by my drill sergeant in basic training,when I served my country from 1968-1971,and it stuck all the way to the day I was discharged from the United States Army.So much for fiction.

          • Minneola

            But, Secretariat raced twice as many races, before retiring, than Arrogate will have finished up with. I’m not going to go through a historical litany of all the horses that have ever raced. And few, other than a handful of racing fans even know of his name. Nice try, TTT, but no bananas for you.

          • TimTamTed

            Your primary sport is obviously dodge ball.

      • Meydan Rocks

        Tango. I think there is a key part missing from Bob’s statement.

        Baffert said he Arrogate is “the greatest horse HE (Bob Baffert) has ever seen”.

        Makes all the difference I think. Don’t you?

        • Tango F

          no … Bob was alive in 1973.

          • Meydan Rocks

            In honor of one of faves Tango (and Cash), even you will admit that Secretariat isn’t eveyone’s universal number one. Just yesterday, I saw someone put Man 0 war in front of the great Secretariat. Can’t we afford the same “whathaveyou” to Bob (as despised as he may be)? ;-)

          • Tango F

            No.
            Bob is hyping for cash.

          • Tango F

            You can
            I don’t have to, and shall not.

          • Meydan Rocks

            You feel very familiar to me ;-)

          • TimTamTed

            Were you ?

          • Tango F

            yep … saw ALL the TC winners of the 70s, but I certainly am not the person making the ridiculous assertions about my horses, so I really don’t see how or why that would be a relevant question, other than some weak attempt at discrediting me …

          • TimTamTed

            Assertions,or factual replies to sarcastic human comments ? Read before you leap.

          • Tango F

            Yes.
            Your question is irrelevant. What matters is if Bob were alive and he was, as we all know.
            Thanks for asking, however.

          • Minneola

            And, if he didn’t see each horse up close and in person, I’ll bet that he would have viewed those races of Big Red on the television screen. Baffert was just hyping his horse and that is all. We know that.

    • Dave

      Best comment I’ve seen on this thread. And the good news is it’s accurate.

      • Tango F

        not even … just silly hype

        • TimTamTed

          After reading your comments on this thread,you’re just a silly dance.

          • Tango F

            Same at you, dear … at least I don’t look the other way

          • TimTamTed

            I FACE REALITY…unlike you,dear.

          • Tango F

            Before looking the other way ….

          • GoodnessMe

            You should look in the mirror and see if you see too made shades of Blue.

    • jarmstead

      T.T.T. – True that.

      Susan – Touche~ about Arrogate’s ability to read.

  • Tango F

    Hall of fame trainer Bob Baffert said of Arrogate: “That’s the greatest horse I’ve ever seen run.”
    He was sleeping during the spring of 1973 …

    • Beau Geste

      In fairness to Baffert or anyone intimately involved with a horse, it must be very difficult to remain calm. I get carried away as a fan. I can’t even imagine what it must be like for the person who is with the horse everyday.

      • Tango F

        A professional trainer? Trust me ; he should be able to have decorum. This is just hype, plain and simple

    • TimTamTed

      Maybe you slept through the Dubai World Cup ?

      • Tango F

        Which compares to the Wood Memorial of I Want Revenge, or the Belmont of Rags To Riches, but you have to be wither a PR person for the Baffert barn, or a real newbie to the sport to compare Secretariat’s Belmont to ANY RACE.

        • jarmstead

          Tango… good point. That race has no equal. It made grown people (male and female) cry from the “Joy” of seeing that performance.

        • Ida Lee

          Secretariat’s Belmont is the greatest sport accomplishment in the history of sport …. The End ….

        • TimTamTed

          Newbie ??? I was 25 when Secretariat accomplished the single greatest performance of any single athlete,in the history of American sports…his Belmont jaw dropper.I consider Arrogate’s DWC performance,the reverse form of Big Red’s feat.Both incredible.Don’t believe we’ll see anything like them again, in our lifetime.Just a side note;wonder what Arrogate would have accomplished,had HE be given steroids ? Scary thought,eh ?

          • Tango F

            Gee, I just wonder what he has been given, period

          • TimTamTed

            You say you saw all the TC winners in the 70’s ? Did you ever read about the thoroughbreds,and the drugs being given to them, back then ? Do you actually believe that 3 TC’s in 5 years was a coincidence ? Well,guess what,look it up,because you obviously didn’t.

          • Tango F

            Please, someone at this publication remove her comment accusing Secretariat on being on steroids.
            Thanks
            It appalls me what you remove and what you let stand. The above seems rather egregious to me….

          • TimTamTed

            You are the egregious one, Mr.Tango.Real horsemen know the facts.

      • Minneola

        We were awake for the San Diego Handicap as well as the Pacific Classic. Maybe, you slept through those?

        • TimTamTed

          Let me guess…you,TangoF,and Discopartner,are really a tag team trio,for the WWA.

    • Larry Ensor

      He was living in Nogales, Arizona in 73 working with Quarter horses. Might have been really hard to get the rabbit ears on the TV just right to get any kind reception in that remote part of the country. Not a lot of TBs in that part of Quarter horse country. They live and breath nothing but Quarter horses and cows down there in those days.

      • Tango F

        Oh, please … EVERYONE in the country knew who and what Secretariat was … if Bob was ignorant then, he has certainly had time to educate himself. What a crock. The Bob fans stoop to new levels to defend him.

        • Minneola

          It seems to me that Secretariat also made plenty of covers of top tanked magazines. How could anyone involved with racing or with horses, regardless of breed, not have known and followed that super horse?

      • Minneola

        No, television reception was fine in small towns. I saw those races and I lived in a small town in an area where Quarter horses outnumbered Thoroughbreds 99 to 1. Well, actually, there might not have been even one within 50 miles. We all watched those races just fine on our TV sets. Baffert wasn’t being ignorant of racing during that era and did not live in a cocoon. Sometimes, we just need to stop giving everyone a thread on which to hang their opinions. He was just hyping his horse and trying to put a happy face on the fact that the last two races have brought some questions about why his top horse couldn’t have won the last two races, one of which was just a grade 2 and his horse came in second to last.

  • I know looks are of little importance in the racing world, but in every photo of Arrogate he looks mad, unhappy and exhausted. Am I imagining that? He is a great race horse, obviously.

    • Lehane

      Arrogate is in amazing horse and I hope that his run in the BC doesn’t go the same way it went for the great California Chrome. So sad to see him not at his best in his final race.
      Would love to see Arrogate go out winning the BC.

      • Guest

        Or Eight Belles in the KD or thousands of other tb’s each year.
        I pray for you Arrogate.

        • guest

          Or just this week, 2 yr old Ten City at Keeneland, gr 1 stakes race…

    • Krystal Stave

      I completely agree with you. The horse looks absolutely miserable in every photo I have seen of him

      • Olebobbowers

        Great observations cCarol & Krystal!!! As a life long horseman, I can’t believe no one else has observed the lack of interest in his appearance! Well done, ladies. Very well done ;*)

        • Thanks. He just looks like he is tired of the whole thing. Compare his look with Chrome. Totally different.

          • Tango F

            Poor Arrogate

        • Guest

          He’s pictured on my calendar after a bath and his eyes and expression do look a little mean or ornery.

    • Minneola

      A truly big concern that I have for Arrogate is that of safety. That no one, anywhere, has released any legitimate documentation, or with any authority that explained why Arrogate plummeted after the DWC, gives me great pause. No injury that was reported. So, what happened? I would rather that this horse retire right now than to race again. Allow this
      horse to live out his life in some great place and with longevity because that is far more important to me (or should be for anyone that cares for Arrogate) than any dollar consideration that may benefit his connections.

  • Michael Castellano

    If Baffert had said he was the best horse I ever trained, it might not be too much of a stretch. But saying he was the greatest horse he has ever seen suggests Arrogate is better that every horse than raced in the last 50 years. And that is a huge stretch, and should not be taken seriously. There is also something to be said for durability and soundness when we talk of greatness. And when you have more and more horses having very limited, 10 race careers, there is no way they can be compared to many of the prior greats of racing.

    • TimTamTed

      The idea is to appreciate what a horse has done,especially Arrogate’s (limited)4 race run.In that short stretch of time,we witnessed greatness,no matter how you slice it or dice it.Not to be compared to any other horse,just in its own right.If one doesn’t agree with that,then you are either a die hard Chrome fan,who still has the bitter taste of defeat (twice) in your mouth,or you simply know nothing about thoroughbred horseracing,period.

      • NMBird

        I love Chrome, his racing career and his story…but I understand exactly what you are saying.
        You appreciate something that is pretty magical while it is happening. There are SO many variables in a racehorse’s life that it is pretty hard to quantify everything.
        Now, I’m sure some will laugh if I bring up my beloved Mine that Bird…he was ignored and his people were put down…but during that 2009 Triple Crown, that plain brown wrapper horse ran wonderfully and pulled off an incredible KY Derby win…and Borel said he made that move through the traffic all by himself.

        That was pretty magical. People perked up and the TC got a publicity boost. There is room for magic in racing no matter who a horse belongs to or what the numbers or “experts” say…

        • TimTamTed

          Absolutely right.I love all our thoroughbreds.One of my all time favorites was a horse that ran about 5 yrs.ago.Fast Bullet.I loved that horse from day one.He looked like a world beater at 2,and 3.But sadly he left us in December of 2014,losing a battle with colic.I was devastated,to say the least.I don’t jump on and off bandwagons.I do have my personal favorites,that some may never have heard of.I love Chrome too.It’s mostly his fans that piss me off.I thought he was headed for greatness at two.I can separate myself from fandom and reality.Some of the commenters here should practice that same way of thinking,then we wouldn’t have the ridiculous vitriol spewed by the pure haters of any particular horse.How anyone can hate a horse is beyond comprehension.

          • NMBird

            “fandom vs. reality”….good phrase…applies to many things, including our general state of affairs….

          • TimTamTed

            Nice to hear ! Hope NM is treating you well…some beautiful country out there.

          • NMBird

            It’s a good place to be, in spite of being so close to Texas and the attempt to turn NM into TX…We do get 4 seasons here, though, as we are high desert…some pretty cold nights, for sure. But, thankfully, other that a couple of inches of snow, we don’t have huge storms and lots of freezing slush!!! And I grow winter greens under my hoops/plastic protected bed!

          • TimTamTed

            I take it,you don’t miss the potential for 2 feet of snow,lol ! Sure you guys used to get hammered every now and then,being in central Jersey,just as Philly does.I’m just 2 blocks away from I 95,right down the road from South Philly,where I was born and raised.Basically, the same weather over the Scudders Fall Bridge.I kind of figured,you being NMBird,that you were a woman from New Mexico.I’m sure you know the British refer to females as “birds”.It’s so refreshing to chat with a woman on here that isn’t either sarcastic,insulting,or downright nasty.I’m not saying all the women,but there seems to be some that love attacking people,and I am one of their targets.Only makes for ugly dialog.Be well,NMB.

          • NMBird

            Thanks for the compliment…and, while a “bird” is a British term for a female, my main reason for using that was a tribute to my boy Mine That Bird…so, I hit two birds with one stone!
            I grew up in North Jersey and did time in Wisconsin, so I know full well the wonderful satisfaction of getting stuck on bridges behind cars without 4-wheel drive and having idiots speeding on ice and hitting me and spinning me out across 3 lanes of traffic! Ah, what a great feeling, LOL!!

            I sometimes am astounded at the levels people stoop to, but at the same time, it is part of a larger decline of civility that is accelerating at a very worrisome pace. This is becoming a much more stressful and harsh world and we are all somewhere on the spectrum of being affected by it all…

          • TimTamTed

            We are absolutely affected by it all.The lava being spewed from the top of the volcano,has this country burning,because it pours over,into all of our lives.

      • discopartner

        How much do you appreciate other horses that you’re not a big fan of?

        • TimTamTed

          Deeply ! Where do you want me to start ? Ok,let’s start with Kelso,a 5 time HOTY !! I watched his career.That will NEVER happen again !! Maybe the best all around American thoroughbred ever.Need I go on from there ?

          • discopartner

            Let’s see your Gun Runner appreciation. Or at least, hold back the insults. I bet you don’t.

          • TimTamTed

            I LOVE GUN RUNNER ! I always have.I would be thrilled if he won the Classic ! Ever since I stood there and watched him in the Pa.Derby last year,I’ve been singing his praises.If you knew me,you would never make that comment.Just because I’ve been sticking up for Arrogate,doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate other horses as well.I just don’t think this race sets up well for GR.The distance,the quality of the field,the Del Mar track,could all lead to him not crossing the wire first.Hope I’m wrong.

          • discopartner

            The quality of the field isn’t great. The track is being over hyped for what problems it may present. Horses in the eastern half of the country run on a wide variety of tracks, several of them right next to the Atlantic or the Gulf of Mexico, so I doubt Del Mar will be a problem.

          • TimTamTed

            Arrogate beat GR twice,yet Gun Runner will likely go off as the favorite.West Coast is for real,believe it ;saw him win the Pa.Derby with ease,and authority.Collected is coming of a strong performance in his Pacific Classic win.Mubtaahij is in really good form, and is coming off his Awesome Again win.Diversify is coming off his Jockey Gold Cup win at 1 1/4 miles.Keen Ice has proven he’s dangerous…any hiccups,and he can pick up the pieces.Midnight Storm cannot be overlooked,or underestimated.Good Samaritin & Gunnevera would need the race to fall apart,but stranger things have happened.It’s a quality,and competitive field,only because Arrogate came back down to earth,otherwise he would have been the 1/5 favorite.The others would have been vying for second.

          • NMBird

            I have to admit I’m rooting for Gun Runner…he’s been coming along nicely and I would like to see all that hard work and steadiness pay off for him!

          • TimTamTed

            He does deserve to win. He’s all class.

          • Michael Castellano

            Kelso was the greatest. He proved in on the track.

    • Tango F

      Easy Goer was easily MUCH better than Arrogate and that is just off the top of my head … Hoy Bull is another

      • jarmstead

        Tango… PLEASE, don’t start up that debate again. Sunday Silence beat him enough in a year’s time… to stop any real conjecture.

        There is no way that E.G. is in the same league as Arrogate. I mean… come on, are you from the East Coast and have yet to throw in Ghostzapper into the discussion?

        Arrogate made Mike Watchmaker finally stop making references to the “Ghost.”

        • discopartner

          Disrespect much? There’s no way Arrogate is in Easy Goer’s league.

        • Tango F

          Oh, please … Arrogate NEVER has come CLOSE to a world record … Easy Goer missed slightly as a three year old – you don’t have one clue about horse racing. Stop embarrassing yourself.

          • jarmstead

            Tango… Arrogate has the Track Record in the Travers at 1.25 miles. Sunday Silence beat E.G. 3 times on 3 different tracks. Just compare “earnings per start” and tell me I know nothing about horse racing.

            You’re just another one of the “die-hard” E.G. fans who will point to anything to resurrect an argument about E.G.’s greatness. Let it go, brother.

            Even CA Chrome was better than E.G. He traveled to Dubai and won without Lasix as well as Arrogate. “Earnings per Start” pales in comparison.

          • Tango F

            So weak to try to use the ridiculously inflated earnings from the Pegasus as a comparison.
            You grasp.
            I am not an EG “die hard fan”, but I certainly can recognize that he was a MUCH better horse than Arrogate.

  • SteveD

    So, Bob didn’t actually see Secretatiat in ’73… He’s not counting TV and replays…;)
    I was wrong in thinking they would announce Arrogate’s retirement before the BCC…but they can always scratch.
    I just hope Gun Runner gets his rematch and a chance to show everyone how ya beat the best horse BB has ever seen.

  • admiral

    Ludicrous to compare Arrogate to Man o War. Man o war was 20 and 1 with his only loss due to a very controversial start and he still only lost by a neck Arrogate is a top horse for sure but the greatest don’t throw in 2 unexplainable clunkers. Would not be surprised to see Arrogate scratch from the BC. Stay tuned-

    • TimTamTed

      FYI…In the Pacific Classic,Arrogate found some semblance of footing late in the stretch,on a track he loathed,and closed in on Collected,falling 1/2 length short of victory.While posting a 114 beyer speed figure in the process,I might add,in a Grade I horserace.THAT is NOT a clunker.That wins most grade one dirt races in the country.If you’re going to criticize him,the least you could do, is get your facts right !

      • Beau Geste

        It might be unfair, but I think Arrogate is being judged against his previous masterpieces rather than other horses. His Pacific Classic was certainly an improvement over the San Diego, but we have become accustomed to him blowing by everyone and to fall short is looked at by many as a “clunker”.

        • TimTamTed

          And I get that,but that is unfair.I’m not the only one who feels he could have even won the PC,Steve Haskin felt he could have too.The track was playing better on the inside,and when Mike had him coming on,he had an opening on the rail,which Garcia (Collected),would have let him through.Mike took the right side of Collected,where the track was looser,and still almost caught him.Had he taken the inside,we may not be having this conversation.If that weren’t factual,I wouldn’t have commented at all.

          • Beau Geste

            TTT, you have described it perfectly. Any other horse would have been praised for a gutty performance which just fell short. Arrogate was accused of throwing another clunker. It is unfair, but that’s what happens to great athletes; they are judged by their best.

          • TimTamTed

            Thank you,BG.Sanity does prevail,my friend.

          • discopartner

            I think you and “Beau Geste” are one and the same poster.

          • frank graziano

            I agree. He ran a very good race in the PC. Tango has to demean BB here because she can’t do it at the track. Restraining Order is in effect.

          • TimTamTed

            Hahaha!!

    • Olebobbowers

      Agree about the scratch 100% admiral. I honestly feel the announcement of retirement ‘after’ the BBC is just an attempt to lessen the blow. ~

      • Tango F

        agreed … Bob knows this horse isn’t the same

  • Tom Davis

    No retiring of race horses until after their 5yo year. Oh wait, you say “I own the horse. I can take it where I like”. Ok, then no registering of horses as stallions until after their 5yo year. What do you think Jockey Club? Will that work? It will grow the sport by bringing new fans to the sport. But then again, the stallion can be brought outside the country. Oh well, I’m just throwing around different ideas.

    • JamagotasueU

      Will be alot of horses exported if they try that.

      • Tom Davis

        That’s true. Then the knee-jerk reaction to that is their offspring can’t race in our country. But then we’d be hurting ourselves with the isolationism. There’s no answer.

    • Tango F

      uh … no

  • Carrotlady

    I guess he never saw Secretariat run.

    • Tom Davis

      Maybe he meant ever saw run in person.

  • affirmed

    well here we go again! Baffert is trying to spin his spin!! well everyone do have their own opinions, and if there were no opinions, then there would not be any opinions! Anyway, what he said is just what he see in his eyes, while I also can say something different regarding the greatest Horse ever to run, everyone those who have eyes, also , and some see different things, so Baffert is seeing different things than what I see. I have seen so many different Greatest race horses in America, I could not say which race Horse is the greatest ever., one thing, Great Race horses come and go..is my argument, so Baffert you are just spinning your spin! anyone can say anything..right or wrong, it’s free speech! I do not disagree with you, and hoping you do not disagree with me, so my Greatest race Horse is “CIGAR” in my eyes! I am not competing with anyone, just saying my opinion., and I would imagine everyone would also have their greatest race Horse that they ever saw to have run, that is the argument…, so baffert dont be selfish, and one sided, and I have just finished putting the icing on the sendoff cake, I baked for Arrogate, baked a race Horse named “Gun Runner” for Arrogate, his sending off party., only that GUN Runner will have his cake and eat it too! beating Arrogate , be careful what you wished for!

    • Ed Fountaine

      Your namesake would beat Cigar like a drum.

      • affirmed

        Thanks Ed..well been so long between drinks…most respected handicapper you are in my book! now, I know ..I did not want to beat my chest saying I was the greatest Race Horse that ever ran, I won the triple crown, and beat so many top Prospects after the triple crown..but I know that if I were to say me “Affirmed” is the best then I would get into trouble! now I believe that I was one of the Greatest ever Modestly! thanks ED, you are still well respecteted, and a dangerous long shot handicapper, and knowledgeable on all fronts of Horse racing!

        • Ed Fountaine

          Thanks.

          As for Affirmed, it comes down to this: If Alydar did not have to race against him, Alydar would be regarded as one of the greatest of all time.

          Also, Affirmed beat Spectacular Bid in the ’79 Jockey Club Gold Cup, and very few horses were better than the Bid.

  • David Worley

    The most telling thing to me about this announcement is his skipping of the PWC. With $12M on the line you’d run your horse if your thought your odds of winning were good. Read between the lines what you wish, but I’m taking that as a tepid endorsement of Arrogate’s form as of early October by insiders (his connections) who are watching him every day.

    • Tom Davis

      Agreed. Juddmonte Farms is not only in the breeding business but they are also racing fans. You would think they would want to see their horse run one more time and win a big race before retiring. Especially on a track, Gulfstream Park, that Arrogate relished. But then again, why run in the Classic if not also the Pegasus.

  • Deb

    This is such a lovely horse. I hope he retires sound and has a great future in the breeding shed. His offspring will be beautiful.

  • jarmstead

    This is the smart move by Juddmonte Farm. What Arrogate did in Dubai (without Lasix) cannot be forgotten. Even Gun Runner’s connections must recognize that he got a perfect trip in that race, vs. the trip of Arrogate. I still can’t believe what I saw on that day.

    That was by far, the best Dubai World Cup race I ever saw. Without Lasix on that day, Juddmonte and the rest of the world’s breeding industry (not just the USA) is about to “get paid” with another round of “Super studly” breeding parlays.

    • Tango F

      Oh, I think Chrome setting the race record with a slipped saddle in dominating fashion was MUCH more unforgettable!!!!
      Oh, right … since you mentioned it twice; without Lasix!

    • Minneola

      Without Lasix? Yes, he won that race but, then what? Lost the following two. By the way, you do know, don’t you, that he isn’t the only one to win that race without Lasix? California Chromed did the same but he went on to win the following two races. The same two that Arrogate lost and one of those he came in second from last. No injury. No reason given for both performances.

  • pullmanstandard

    I’ve been a big supporter and admirer of this horse, but the period of time since his return from Dubai has been a huge disappointment. The decision to retire him after the BCC speaks volumes. Even if the original plan prior to Dubai had been for the Classic to be his last race, one would have thought that the Del Mar debacles would have changed the plan so as to give him one or two additional races at other tracks to control for the Del Mar surface being the issue. This announcement in my mind foreshadows not only another lackluster performance at Del Mar, but also a tacit admission that Arrogate is a shadow of the horse that won the Travers, BCC and DWC. Ultimately, he will retire as a flash in the historical pan–arguably an enormous flash–but not one of the all time greats.

    • Tango F

      “…also a tacit admission that Arrogate is a shadow of the horse that won the Travers, BCC and DWC….”
      you got it!

    • Minneola

      You made some excellent points. The last one is a bit of a heart-breaker, though. “…a flash in the historical pan…” You are right but I fault those who handled this horse to allow this to happen! Actually, I am quite furious about this. Not the horse’s fault but those who mismanaged the horse.

  • ctgreyhound

    What’s wrong with defending your title in the Pegasus?

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