Dennis O’Neill: We had to Google the term ‘milkshake’

by | 05.22.2012 | 8:48am

The mainstream media scrutiny of trainer Doug O'Neill will only increase in the coming days as he prepares I'll Have Another for a run at history in the Belmont.  The facts won't stand in the way of some of this coverage.

Exhibit A: On CNN's Outfront, Erin Burnett discusses the “dark side of horse racing,” suggesting that O'Neill could be barred from the Belmont because of a California case in which the trainer is fighting a charge of “milkshaking” a horse.  In reality, California officials have said that even if O'Neill lost his appeal and was suspended, it wouldn't affect the Belmont.

Still, O'Neill and his team must answer the valid questions about his past.  O'Neill continues to deny that he's ever milkshaked a horse, saying he's spent $250,000 fighting the latest charge and investigating what else might cause a high TCO2 level, the finding that triggers a milkshake positive.  This is O'Neill's fourth such violation. 

In the CNN interview, O'Neill's brother Dennis, who identified I'll Have Another for purchase, went so far as to say:  “We actually had to Google (milkshaking) to find out what that meant.

“We've never milkshaked a horse,” said Dennis O'Neill.  “We wouldn't know how to do it.”

See the CNN piece below.

  • McGov

    Wow.  Really hoping the story turns to the horse and the kid.

  • DavidB

    That’s unfortunate. If he had simply said “we have never done that, and never will”, then that may have sufficed. But to blatantly lie about what your knowledge of the term – well, that just throws a level of doubt on the whole thing.

  • Big Red

    You have to be kidding me. Is Dennis that STUPID to think that anyone believes him ?? “had to google it ” ???? O’Neil has been milkshaking (or whatever he prefers to call it) before Google ever was ever invented !
    Kind of reminds me of Clinton saying “I never had sexual intercourse with that girl”
    Maybe if IHA wins the TC, there should be an asterisk after his name in the record books?
    Ok , I feel better now.

  • Tinky

    Exactly.

  • FlyFilly

    How is there 0 outrage directed at CNN for airing an improperly-researched piece here?

  • Tinky

    Because no one with a clue would expect anything other than that.

  • Stanley inman

    When you make up stuff (“… had to google milkshake”)
    Makin it up as you go along (3weeks to the Belmont)
    will seem like an eternity.
    The O’neill,s would be wise to find an adviser
    in public relations & risk assessment.

  • FlyFilly

    I’m not sure I expected anything different, but the people who watch it certainly do. And now there’s more false information out there. Great.

  • Stanley inman

    So that’s
    what you find disturbing about this piece?

  • Tinky

    The false information disseminated by CNN (e.g. it’s questionable whether or not milkshaking works) stems from pure ignorance. That pales in comparison to Dennis O’ Neill’s blatant (and stupid) lie.

  • Countfleet43

    Dennis is an “out & out liar”, as is his Brother, and Rick Dutrow & other Trainer’s & Vet’s who juice their horses within the 24 Hours prior to Racing. Take the Raceday Drugs out of Horse Racing or watch Thoroughbred Racing free Fall starting 2013/2014. Maybe we should boycott betting on any race that they have Horses running.
    Three Cheers for the Good Guys/Ladies in the Horse business, who don’t …

  • Frank

    Big Red —

    When, and HOW, did YOU find out what
    milkshaking meant? Another thing, if milkshaking is a performance
    enhancer why didn’t the horses O’Neil, SUPPOSEDLY, milkshaked win?
    Further, how many of the milkshaking horse offenses, including ALL
    trainers, won! A performance enhancer would logically, “LOGICALY”,
    result in winning performances, where winning was NOT expected.
    Further, from what I understand , NOW, is that bicarb mixed with
    molasses is enough to raise testing levels, which can be given to a
    horse, by a groom, via sweet feed, without the trainers, or anyone’s
    knowledge!!

    Back in the 70’s, when I first heard of
    milkshaking, my vet said that he didn’t notice any significant
    improvement with respect to horses milkshaked. He believed if a
    horse won that was milkshaked, that horse would have won anyway!!
    Snake venom, was another story. My vet was violently opposed to its
    use. He said that it was very, very, dangerous to administer,
    further could result in death if administed wrong — not worth the
    risk. Snake venom has “NEVER” been widely used because of the
    risk. Further, there are not any drugs, as described drugs, in a
    milkshake!! It is a substance that is concocted, BUT, not a drug.

  • Hossracergp

    Curious to know if milkshaking is a California thing, because none of the trainers I ever worked for on the East coats or for that matter anybody I know millkshakes their horses. I do know people that use baking soda in the feed as a buffer for lactic acid build up to aid in the prevention of muscle soreness, but no milkshakers around here. It came from the harness tracks originally did it not?

  • Swamp Fox

    Memo to Doug. Keep your brother off TV and away from people with notebooks and tape recorders during the next three weeks.  

  • Glimmerglass

    Milkshake just a Cali thing? Look up ‘A One Rocket’ for IEAH stables at Aqueduct with Greg Martin. In fact Ray wrote a piece for ESPN back in 2008 on the success of IEAH.

     http://sports.espn.go.com/spor

  • Michtay14

    In response to FlyFilly: Ha, you should see the news pieces about the Romneys and the sport of dressage.  One anchor was so disrespectful that she rolled her eyes at the sport while laughing cruelly about “dancing horses.” (Not to mention the rest of her COMPLETELY inaccurate look at the sport) Also….Dennis has said that byte in several interviews…like he’s going to change his tune now.

  • Stanley inman

    My friend,
    When you’re cheating you don’t talk about it.
    What reputable horsemen-owner would admit cheating?
    I guess all the cheaters are in Cali fornia.

  • Frank

    Tinky —

    Once again your lack of “actual”
    barn experience shows through. CNN is completely correct!! See my
    comment in answer to Big Red. Your reading is NOT always conducive
    to what “actually” happens in real life!! Yes, it sounds good to
    those with no experience, but, tell me this — why didn’t ALL the
    horses that tested positive for milkshaking win. Isn’t that the
    purpose of a performance alternator!!

  • Stanley inman

    Frank,
    You’re using a phishing website?

  • RayPaulick

     Milkshaking was not prohibited for Thoroughbreds in Kentucky until about 10 or 11 years ago. I believe it was also legal in Louisiana until around the same time. No telling how many Kentucky Derby winners in the 1990s were legally milkshaked.

  • Gtony63

    JUMP that shark Dennis!  Wow…thought he had more common sense than that.  They are going to be destroyed by the press for 18 more days.

  • Tinky

    Frank –

    It shouldn’t come as a surprise to regular readers that you would endorse the “logic” used by the ignorant CNN reporter. Because some horses that were milkshaked didn’t win, it wasn’t effective?

    Let’s take a simple look at your logic: If every horse in a 10 runner field was milshaked, and nine of them lost, it must be ineffective!

    Your level of thought is disappointingly consistent.

  • Tinky

    James Bond, Leo O’Brien, Gary Sciacca, etc., etc., etc.

  • Frank L.

    Tinky —

    Once again your lack of “actual” barn experience shows
    through.  CNN is completely
    correct!!  See my comment in answer to
    Big Red.  Your reading is NOT always
    conducive to what “actually” happens in real life!!  Yes, it sounds good to those with no
    experience, but, tell me this — why didn’t ALL the horses that tested
    positive for milkshaking win.  Isn’t that
    the purpose of a performance alternator!!

  • Frank L.

    Countfleet —

    There are NO race day medications
    allowed except lasix, already? A misinformed commenter!!

  • Stanley inman

    Tinky,
    You are being too kind. Given the abuse spewed by this individual it is amazing how respectful all the posters are towards him.
    His “body of work” here demands a good old fashion shunning by this community.
    Let’s not give him the sexual satisfaction he desires when we respond.
    No more stiffys for frank.

  • Lucky23

    “Nobody’s been caught milkshaking a horse as far as I know….”
    Give me a break. That’s all I have to say. 

  • Frank L.

    Tinky —

    That’s not an example contrasting what
    I said. If one horse has a drug, a drug that knowingly vastly
    improves performance, and the other nine do not, that one horse
    should win every time if the drug was, indeed, a drug that vastly
    improved performance. If every horse had the same drug administered,
    you would probably be back to where the best horse won, regardless!
    Understand, the point in administering a “DRUG”, a “DRUG”, is
    to make a horse run faster than his actual ability. I am Not aware
    of such a drug, in existence? If there is such a drug, tell us all!

  • Big Red

    Ray, thanks for explaining that milkshaking has existed for over 20 years. I worked on the backstretch for a long time and milkshaking was / is as common place as hay & oats. Hopefully IHA gets beat in the Bel. and these guys fade away into the west. We don’t liars like Team O’Neill to be the face of racing.

  • Olebobbowers

    I can understand why the James, ooops, O’Neill brothers appear confused, cos I Googled milkshake and it came up…leading flavors, Vanilla, followed closely by Chocolate, and finally, a staggering third, Strawberry. Normally intended to be served by by car ‘hops’ on roller skates, but you can expect the same refreshed feeling when served by trainers and practicing veterinarians. If the last line is deleted, these outlaw’s will be free of all charges, continue to milkshake their horses. That’s by far the lesser offense over dropping them down to $2,000 claim @ Los Alamitos to have them break a leg and be euthanized with the bright lights blinding their eyes as they thrash in terror. Rest in Peace, Bernadette.

  • Upstart

    Interesting article by Jeremy Plonk.  Doesn’t look like much has changed.  http://sports.espn.go.com/spor

  • Cliff

    The piece is 90 seconds uninformed guessing and gossip, not reporting. When both anchor and reporter are clearly out of their depth on the topic, how can we fault O’Neill for using rhetorical flourishes (that were clearly edited out of longer answers to questions)?
    Think of what TV news has come to: instead of taking the time to produce a solid 90 seconds on the charges, what they mean and what they could mean, we get 30 seconds of hastily arranged background followed by 45 seconds of pretty people saying how little they know about the subject (but they’re pretty) followed by 15 hatchet bites of raw meat from “the brother of the accused.”
    The O’Neills got their day in court. Rulings come out this week. Regardless of the outcome, poor journalism like this has already decided the matter in the court of public opinion. Too bad if the California authorities find for O’Neill.

  • Frank L.

    Cliff —

    This is the same media that
    “Shapes/Lead’s/Influences” perception, which is then viewed as
    knowledge, BUT, in reality skewed knowledge, to be eaten by those who
    do NOT understand!!

    This is the base of the media,
    “storytelling” — to feed the all compliant public, as long as
    it is negative and amenable to the indoctrination of the negative
    perception influence of said media! And the beat goes on in the
    comment section???

  • Frank L.

    Stanley —
    Explain what you mean, if you can?

  • ktq1

    Not me.  I want it all on this.  And, sad for the horse, I don’t want him to win.  I want these problems fixed, and a TC would do anything but…..

  • Double Jay

    That’s why I think there needs to be a national governing body in the TB industry to immediately speak out against things that are not proven, untrue, slanderous, biased etc. Nobody does it! We are left with a press that is only concerned with a provocative headline not real correct information. This is what we used to expect from the National Enquirer. As I think about it, the National Enquirer probably checks their facts more than “respectable” news sources now because they have been sued so often by people they have slandered. Nobody speaks out against these national media reports or fights back. If anyone has any other good ideas on how to accomplish this, feel free to respond. But I don’t want to hear crabby people who say there is no way.

  • tfly

    Frank,
    No one would ever know how many horses in a race were milkshaked, and from your posts, i would think you know that.   Let’s also not forget that it wasn’t too long ago that it was outlawed in KY.   I think they were the last State to do so if memory serves. Your use of symantics about a drug not making a horse run faster than his actual ability is a disservice.   Sure, a horse isn’t going to run faster than he can, but he sure can run faster than he would if he felt his pain or fatigue.    

  • Tsford1975

    There’s probably a better chance that he didn’t know what Google was than milkshaking…

  • GB

    The best “hop” is the “drop”.

  • Frank L.

    Tfly —

    Exactly what is your experience with
    race horses. I ask these kind of questions when someone actually
    makes a dumb statement that is “NOT” true. There is no drug, to
    my knowledge, that can mask pain in a horse race that will not show
    up in post race analysis. The trace levels that are allowed are
    negligible with respect to masking pain. If you actually broke your
    arm, and your doctor told you to go home and take ½ aspirin, how
    much pain do you think it will, actually, mask. The pain of a horse
    that is sore, or, ready to break down, cannot be masked by trace
    levels of approved medications — and in most cases, even with full
    dosages of that same medication.

    The question that should be asked is
    why are we “breeding” unsound Stallions and broodmares? If the
    stallion or broodmare could not hold up to the rigors of training and
    racing, what makes anyone think that the offspring will — the
    reasons for medications in the first place.

  • Ida Lee

    I had to goggle “milkshake” too.  On the other hand, I’m not responsible for the welfare of horses (I don’t own any) nor am I responsible for other people’s horses (I don’t train any).  And really I can see a brother defending his own flesh and blood, but neither brother knows what a milkshake is?  It would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic. There is a beautiful and talented horse by the name of I’ll Have Another who may be making history in less than 3 weeks. It’s a shame that this incredibly exciting moment in sports is being spoiled by this ugliness.

  • tfly

    Let’s see, how about breeder, and having raced for over a qtr. century?   Sorry my statement came up to your ‘dumb’ level.  I find it interesting that your example was using a half of an aspirin, or trace levels of approved medications, which has nothing to do with my initial response. Perhaps you confused your postings?  You also say two different things:  the pain of a horse cannot be masked by trace levels of approved meds, and ‘There is no drug, to
    my knowledge, that can mask pain in a horse race that will not show
    up in post race analysis.’   Regarding the latter- do you honestly think every drug is tested for?  Do you know of a test for various venoms, including snake, frog, etc.?  Since in your postings you chose to be condescending, perhaps you won’t mind stating what your experience in horseracing is, since your posting has achieved my ‘dumb’ level.   Touche’

  • James D. Jimenez

    OK, at the risk of stepping on the toes of the all knowing geniuses on here I’m going to pass along some first hand information. I’ve shod horses for Mr. O’Neill for the last 18 years and although I respect him greatly as a horseman I want to guarantee everyone here that he is smart enough to know that he wouldn’t be able to safely tube a horse to administer a milkshake. Also, I’ve been on the track since the 1960’s and my father was a trainer and I also had to Google what a milkshake was when I first learned of the practice. Of course I’ll admit that the know-it-alls here are so much smarter than I could ever hope to be! My hats off to all you geniuses, maybe you’ve been tubing your horses but Doug hasn’t!

  • James D. Jimenez

    Again while admitting that I’m not nearly as smart as all the geniuses here I have a question. I just searched the rulings page and know 3 of the 4 TCO2 finishers. One horse ran 8th and two ran last, can’t find info about the forth horse. This stuff is supposed to make horses do what exactly?

    Oh there this: 
    In most cases, over, under, or poorly trained individuals benefit from the administration of alkalising agents, as opposed to a horse that is nutritionally and metabolically fit and of sound structure. A horse entering a race in less than optimum condition will have to work harder to produce maximum performance and is expected to respond in a positive manner to any exogenous help it might receive.

    Sorry, but I haven’t seen a poorly trained horse in our barn!

  • James D. Jimenez

    P.S. I Googled this info!

  • Tinky

    A word of advice, James:

    Stick to shoeing.

  • Dedababe

    to quote Taylor Swift “why ya gotta be so mean?”

  • James D. Jimenez

    Fully intend to, but thanks anyway! And what do you do at the track?

  • Equine Avenger

    “In the CNN interview, O’Neill’s brother Dennis, who identified I’ll Have Another for purchase, went so far as to say:  “We actually had to Google (milkshaking) to find out what that meant.”We’ve never milkshaked a horse,” said Dennis O’Neill.  “We wouldn’t know how to do it.””

    Well this is the ‘tipoff’ that they have milkshaked horses before. Anyone and everybody that has been in this industry for any period of time from coast to coast knows what the term “milkshaking” means.

    The fool would have been better off just to keep his mouth shut.

  • Upstart

    Try googling Burna Dette.

  • James D. Jimenez

    While reading many of the articles that came up after googling milkshaking racehorses these were the most prevalent words used in the articles: believed, thought, suspected, could, may, possible. And these are the words that are rarely used: proven, known, shown, found, tested.

    Please do not take my word for it, simply google milkshaking racehorses and read the articles. If you find one article that has scientifically proven facts post it here, I’d love to read it. 

    Bet you can’t find one!

  • James D. Jimenez

    Tinky, pretty little name,

    Please respond to above post about milkshaking racehorses.

  • Stanley inman

    James,
    You have an economic relationship with the O’neill’s;
    Some here (quite rightly) might believe you’re credibility could be impinged;
    There’s better ways to show your loyalty to your employer
    Then defending them here.

  • desertrailrat

     When you click on the user name in red “Frank” it tries to take you to aol logged in under a user name.  My antivirus warned me not to proceed. You are phishing for information and are even sketchier than I thought.  You need to be blocked.

  • dh

    James,
    what is it that you do exactly for O’Neill? Are you the guy that holds the shank when the vet runs the stomach tube down the horses nose, or do you hold the shank when the vet is giving the lethal injection after breaking down at Los Alamitos for 2k?

  • Upstart

    You’ve been on the track since the ’60s, your father was a trainer (yeah, we looked him up on equibase), Google came into existence March 1996, so you think we are going to believe you didn’t know what milkshaking was until 1996?  Were you with Dennis and Doug when they first googled it?  You folks live in a parallel universe.  And BTW how many times did you shoe Burna Dette during the 6 weeks she was in O’Neill’s barn?  Holding my breath for your condescending response.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Mr. Inman,
    I am self employed and have been for 40 years. I am fortunate to have enough trainers to want me to shoe their horses to be able to chose my clients. I have never had to kiss a$$ or blow smoke to get work and you better believe I’m not about to start now. I post what I know is true and what I’ve seen. There is not one word posted that I wouldn’t swear to and that I wouldn’t stand behind. Like you I use my real name and I’m in the barn area everyday if anyone would like to take issue with anything I’ve said or posted. I have a major rule I live by: Tell the truth, there’s less to remember.

  • dh

    These guys are beyond shame. The brother and the farrier have to lie about googling milkshakes. I bet Frank L. knows what a milkshake is, you guys should have asked him, he’d be easy to find, he’s the guy shining O’Neill’s shoes.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Funny, I’ve never looked my father up on equibase, he passed several years ago and I didn’t even know that service existed. I’m not sure when I researched milkshaking but it wasn’t that long ago and it happened after overseeing the CHRB farrier exam and a steward and track vet that were also there for the test talked about what ingredients were used in a milkshake years ago. I shod Burna Dette twice after she was claimed from Bob Hess if memory serves me well. Please do not hold your breath and ask me any question that you wish. Like I said above: My number one rule is tell the truth, there’s less to remember. Fire away but first I’m going to go look up my father on equibase. 

  • James D. Jimenez

    Upstart,

    Just looked up the old man’s stats and not sure they are correct. I put in just 2 names Agitate and Cracksman and they won about 50% of the total money earned. No big deal as purses in his years starting in the 60’s were so much smaller than today. If you want to put any knocks on him you’ll really be holding your breath for a response, lol.

    One question, where do you feel I was condescending? I truly apologize if I came off that way to you, it wasn’t intentional!

  • Stanley inman

    James,
    If you’re purpose here
    is to tell us first hand that
    our “perceptions” of the O’Neill’s is inaccurate
    We thank you for that.
    Irrespective of your own beliefs about your credibility
    The fact that you have an economic relationship with Doug & Dennis still is relevant in your quest to set us straight.
    Let’s cut to the chase,
    Ask both to come and address our questions here tonight?
    I would if I were in their shoes;
    It would go along way to right the perception
    that we have prejudged them;
    How brave do you have to be to come here?
    Not very.

  • James D. Jimenez

    I shoe horses for Mr. O’Neill and others. I have only seen a tube down a horses nose at his barn a couple of times by a vet for the purpose of oiling an impacted bowel. In my entire life on the track I’ve only held the shank on one horse that was euthanized while I was working with a vet one summer to help me decide if I wanted to pursue a career as a vet. I cry like a baby at age 16 and decided that I could never do or see that again and decided to be a farrier. As I have said you can ask me any question and I will answer it truthfully.

  • James D. Jimenez

    I do not lie!!!!!!! Ask me anything, I will be honest.

  • Stanley inman

    Good one!
    How about culture club’s;
    “do you want to hurt me
    Do you want to make me cry”

  • James D. Jimenez

    I believe that there would be 2 major issue with asking them to come here. First this is currently in litigation and the judge informed both sides to keep quite until after his decision is given. Secondly, you are very aware that Doug has the Triple Crown on his mind and I think he would have an issue with being attacked by people that hide behind screen names that have only one goal in mind. I will tell you that since this Triple Crown run started that he has answered virtually every question asked of him that he could. The racing coverage in the papers back east is huge compared to here and you wouldn’t believe the number of articles that were written.

  • Stanley inman

    So funny

  • James D. Jimenez

    P.S Upstart,

    I just plugged in a couple of horses that I trained while I tried my had at that profession and equibase had my horses numbers under his name. Going to have to talk to him about that someday, lol. He was James R. and I was James D.  and to separate us the racing office started listing me as J. Douglas Jimenez but my stats don’t show up that way either. 

  • James D. Jimenez

    dh,

    Do you know the real identity of Frank L.? I don’t. 

  • Tinky

    The reason that I suggested that you stick to shoeing, is because you obviously know nothing about milkshaking. It was an endemic practice around the country for many years, and many of the better known trainers have engaged in it at one point or another.

    I am not interested in arguing about the efficacy of milkshakes, as anyone who was in the game at the time knows full well how potent a performance enhancer they were. So potent, in fact, that certain trainers in NY (to use just one example) rose to the top of the standings despite never having enjoyed anything remotely close to the same success, either before or after.

  • Tinky

    You’ve only seen a tube…blah, blah, blah.

    Don’t you see how ridiculous you sound?

    a) No trainer would milkshake a horse in front or you.

    b) you spend an hour or two at his barn in a day; what abouth the other 22 hours?

    Sheesh.

  • Clem Clemson

    I totally agree with DavidB’s observation.  I know DO2 and he prevaricates with every breath he takes.  But to be so obvious as to say “We had to Google the term Milkshake” when DO has 14 violations against him for that infraction, that’s just begging for people to call out the lack of credibility.  Why are the Oneill Brothers such lucky dunderheads? Sometimes, the Universe is unfair. To give them a horse like IHA when Burna Dette has long been turned into dog food, it seems unjust when their are so many other trainers at SA that don’t milkshake and use designer drugs.

  • Clem Clemson

    who is silly Frank L?

  • Clem Clemson

    Why is Frank L such a DO sycophant?  Its like he’s DO’s mother or something. 

  • Stanley inman

    I don’t think he should fear coming here
    since you and I (and many others) aren’t troubled by individuals who choose to use pen names. ( not that there’s anything wrong with that)
    There is far more to gain; not just personally for doug, but how he could help the sport by addressing us here.
    That goes with the territory.
    If the judge says don’t talk, that is another matter,
    But how does he reconcile that with his other comments in the media of late,
    about his medication violations?
    Don’t answer for him,
    Just ask him for us, to come here.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Tinky,

    I will admit that I was probably way behind the times when it came to milkshaking. I do remember a person that I really trust telling me about a SoCal trainer milkshaking a horse with a tube and I didn’t believe him. I’ve known vets that get nervous about tubing horses these days because it’s not done that much. In the old days before paste wormers all vets had to tube worm horses and of course they got very comfortable with it, today not so much. 

    Also Tinky, above when I said pretty little name I wasn’t being sarcastic. My kids use to watch some kind of children’s program when they were young and their favorite character was some colorful dude named Tinky. When I read your name it just reminded my of those days. I hope you didn’t take it as an insult or being condescending. I have looked over my post and can’t find what Upstart was referring to except maybe that comment.

  • Frank L.

    Come on James, you don’t want to interjct facts in a discussion that involves j—-! 

  • Trainerbowie

    Dear Doug if this is true that you have never heard of milkshaking a horse then go to the nearest racetrack and turn in your trainers license. Doug you can fool some of the horsemen some of the time, but that story is just a fairy tale. Please dont make yourself seem that stupid.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Frank L.

    What is j—-?????

  • Clem Clemson

    Yes!  This is a great suggestion.  DO – go turn in your license because you don’t know how to milkshake.  You would be doing everyone at the CHRB a huge favor.

  • Frank L.

    Hey, smarty (Tinky) — they are
    discovering that just putting bicarb in sweet feed, and mixing it
    with a little molasses can give the same elevated readings. NOW,
    that can be done by a groom without notice!! God Tinky, I even
    “read” that!! Are you sleeping, or don’t you want to expose the
    public to possible truth?

  • James D. Jimenez

    Because of the numbers that Mr. O’Neill runs I’m actually in the barn for several hours daily. We don’t start shoeing until almost every horse is walked and I spend a long time each day checking horses that had run, have quarter grab issues, removing toe grabs for turf races, etc, etc. 

    I know that Doug wouldn’t even think of trying to run a tube down a horses nose. One mistake and you’ve got a dead horse and how would that be explained?

  • Frank L.

    Based on what?  I heard about milkshaking in 1976, but, it wasn’t used very much because the effectiveness was suspect.  Quite different than what YOU profess!! 

  • James D. Jimenez

    Stanley,
    If it wasn’t for the many things on his plate and the pressure he is under I would ask him. I will not at this time because I do not think it is fair. I am not answering anything thing for Doug. I am simply discussing issues with people about the horse industry. I will answer what I know or feel and will not lie or hide.

  • Stanley inman

    Fair enough

  • James D. Jimenez

    Now this opens up a real can of worms. Until a couple of months ago you could find Costco bags of baking soda in many barns including some Hall of Fame trainers. If you walk into tack rooms these days they are gone or at least out of sight. I have not seen a bag of baking soda in a barn for months and never saw one in Doug’s barn.

  • Frank L.

    Tinky only owns up to being
    licensed as an owner at the track. As far as the story he gives on
    milkshaking, its probably something that he just read. I was around
    at the time he describes — what he says is NOT true. Again,
    remember, Tinky has no “actual” barn experience!!
    Everything he states, he does NOT state from experience, BUT, from
    what he reads.

    Also, note, that this
    discussion has been going on for weeks, and he just now brings this
    up!! Take it for what it’s worth. “YOU” are NOT going to
    educate people on this site. Education is NOT what they are looking
    for. It’s just a game of “mere words”, to quote a commenter
    here!!

  • Double Jay

    Glad to hear you stand up for yourself & what you know in this lion’s den! Plus you give your name. And don’t anybody bother to say it could be fake because by putting it out there it can be verified. 

  • James D. Jimenez

    Upstart,
    I responded to your questions fully and honestly below if you have anything else to ask fire away.

  • James D. Jimenez

    dh,

    I answered your questions honestly, anything else?

  • Double Jay

    What is wrong with him defending his employer? No one else is restricted in saying whatever snide, rude, personal attack on here. They may have a personal agenda, an ax to grind or just be an out and out A.H. Which for me obscures the facts that actually be in these posts.

    I have been trying to figure out why I came back & started reading the comments on these articles again. The only thing I can come up with is it’s kind of like a really bad reality show. 

  • James D. Jimenez

    I put my private office phone number here before and invited anyone that wanted to ride with me to the barn or backside to call. I only got one reply and that person got a kick out of the time he spent at the track that day. 

  • Frank L.

    James —
    Talk to jockey agent Vic Lipton, if he is still around — he will no who i am!! Just mention Pure Americam!!!

  • James D. Jimenez

    Double Jay,

    Mr. O’Neill is a client, I am not employed by him. If I was employed by Doug I probably wouldn’t even post. 

  • James D. Jimenez

    Let’s bring this up here, tired of scrolling down. Any more questions. I think I have answered everything that was asked and I was truthful so fire away.

  • James D. Jimenez

    I’ve known Vic for many, many years and he is still around. Is it possible I know you?

  • James D. Jimenez

    Surprised this didn’t pick up any talk:
    Now this opens up a real can of worms. Until a couple of months ago you could find Costco bags of baking soda in many barns including some Hall of Fame trainers. If you walk into tack rooms these days they are gone or at least out of sight. I have not seen a bag of baking soda in a barn for months and never saw one in Doug’s barn. 

  • Frank

    I don’t think so — Your name is not familiar!!

  • Clem Clemson

    Patrick Biacone kept his snake venom in a little bottle with a fake label.  Why wouldn’t DO & Company keep their BK Soda in a box marked bute?  Seems to me that guys with as much experience as DO & Co in the game, they probably know to hide the BK Soda in the back of the Fridge – to absorb odors and make it smell good.  But no matter what – it can’t get rid of the stench of what he did to poor Burna Dette.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Can I ask again what is j—-?

  • Tinky

    Why do you insist on continuing to thrust your ignorance on readers?

    Virtually no trainers on major circuits are milkshaking any more because of CO2 testing. The very same test that O’Neill’s horses failed at least four times.

    Milkshaking was a potent form of cheating prior to those tests, but was replaced by other (non-testable) approaches. Clenbuterol was also widely abused before tests were developed and applied.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Never seen snake venom and wouldn’t know what it looked like. As for the baking soda, the bags I use to see were huge (Costco size) and you certainly wouldn’t be able to hide it in a bute bottle or box. Of course they may be in barns now I’m just saying that I haven’t seen them in months and never in Doug’s barn. I have a very different situation in Doug’s barn because I keep equipment and shoes that travel with horses when they ship. I have the run of the trunks because my equipment is moved from one size trunk to another depending on what size is needed at the time. I have never run into a syringe, electric device, or anything that I know is illegal. I know that’s not what many want to hear but it’s the truth.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Ignorance by telling the truth? I don’t understand. I know we still use some Clenbuterol on horses that are off the run soon trail. I don’t like the stuff given before I shoe one because it makes them nervous.

  • Clem Clemson

    James – you seem like a sincere guy.  I am glad that DO has you for the horses. 

  • Frank

    JERKS

  • James D. Jimenez

    Thank you, that’s very kind of you to say.

  • Clem Clemson

    Forget Milkshakes!  Thats so last decade.  Doug ONeill knows how to read and he can see that SARMS are undetectable.   Watch the way that IHA finishes his races.  Like he just jumped in at the 16th pole.   That’s SARMS for you!

    A NEW designer drug that mimics testosterone but is totally undetectable is sweeping world sport – with fears it is already being used in Australian high performance sport.
    SARMS – Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators – are still in the trial phase for human use but are already widely available overseas with numerous testimonials on internet forums, especially from bodybuilders who are experimenting with dosage.
    “SARMS just enhances testosterone production and/or utilisation,” Francis said. “And you throw that together with human growth hormone and you’ve got a pretty potent cocktail.”
    The coach added that while one of the great appeals to users is that SARMS can be taken orally, he had also heard it was being administered intravenously overnight in conjunction with vitamin and protein drips.
     “We’re seeing them in the laboratory one minute and they’re hitting gyms the next. It’s unreal.”

  • Tinky

    It doesn’t matter if you are telling the truth, because the fact remains that NO trainer would cheat in front of you.

    In other words, if O’Neill was/is cheating, you WOULD NOT know about it.

  • Tinky

    Horses used to be pre-raced with Clenbuterol, and derived potent bronchodilation advantages.

    And yes, we can guess – you never saw Saint O’Neill doing it.

  • Wingtips

    One would think that a trainer wouldn’t cheat directly within view of his farrier.

  • Wingtips

    Typical of the backside- The biggest dirtbags can’t keep a lid on things with a half plausible lie.  It’s a definite character trait (or flaw).  When things come out of their mouths that just don’t sound right, they most definetly aren’t.

  • dh

    Yes Wingtips, the guilty dog always barks.

  • James D. Jimenez

    SARMS???? You are talking way over my level.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Let me ask you just one question. If Doug didn’t believe he was wrong why would spend over $250,000 to date to fight this thing? He could have sat out the 6 moths been back by now and $250,000 to the plus side. 

  • James D. Jimenez

    Meant wronged! talking on phone and typing doesn’t cut it!

  • Tinky

    It’s called “damage control”, James.

  • Tinky

    Your a farrier – every performance enhancing drug on the backside is over your level, which is why you should stop opining on them.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Never saw Clenbuterol used on race day in his barn. I think it’s taken away at least 5 days now but not sure.

  • James D. Jimenez


    It doesn’t matter if you are telling the truth, because the fact remains that NO trainer would cheat in front of you.”

    That is not a true statement!

  • James D. Jimenez

    $250,000 to date is not damage control to a trainer!!!!!!

  • Tinky

    Really, the please, Mr. truth-telling farrier, tell us which trainers have cheated in front of you.

  • James D. Jimenez

    I have not talked about them because I have no knowledge about them. I have posted about the facts of what I have seen in this barn. I know what is needed to tube a horse with a milkshake and with the number of horses that Doug runs do you really believe I would never had seen it once. I sat with IHA from the morning till he left for the race and watched the guard stand in front of his stall with a clipboard checking everyone that moved close to his stall.

  • Erick Weiss

    Methamphetamine gives humans increased capacity to do work and not tire albeit for short periods of time.  LSD has been cited as giving humans super strength, wouldn’t it make sense that those would give horses the same ability?  There, I gave you two drugs.

  • Tinky

    Again, NO trainer in his right mind would cheat in front of you. How hard is that to understand?

    Secondly, no one is talking about I’ll Have another.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Wouldn’t that put me in a liable situation? 

  • James D. Jimenez

    Plus if I see someone give a horse something orally that isn’t deemed illegal is a rule broken. What about an herbal treatment is that illegal?

  • Frank

    James —

    Don’t ask Doug. Just read through the
    comments and you will see the negative, uniformed, malicious garbage,
    that is spewed here. Don’t be taken in by the niceties, it’s all a
    show. Besides, Doug has nothing to gain by coming here. As I said
    before, the people on this site don’t care about being educated, or
    learning anything, because they have all they need from the “AGENDA”
    driven newspapers. That’s why I don’t give my last name!!

    Keep this in mind, James, you “cannot”
    have an intelligent discussion with ignorant people. Facts are
    meaningless — look at the way they make snide remarks at you.
    O’Neil is far above these “kind” of people. Let him stay where
    he is, and if he think it necessary to improve his image, let him
    hire an agent that deals in merchandizing, much like Jerry Moss
    handled Zenyatta!! O’Neil owes these people “NOTHING”!!!!!!

    NOTE:

    In a report that Joe Drape, of the New
    York Times, filed back in 2010, he exhibited a table that showed the
    following information:

    Bob Baffert 465 starts
    per medication violation

    John Sadler 478 starts
    per medication violation

    Kiaran McLaughlin 710 starts
    per medication violation

    Doug O’Neil 807
    starts per medication violation

    Doug O’Neil had the best record of the
    four. I couldn’t find a more recent table with the same information.
    Why isn’t this publicized —- maybe because it puts the “glory”
    boys in a negative light, and the one they want to crucify in a
    better light. Now, these are ALL medication violations, although
    they are not spelled in the chart given. I’m sure many are trace
    level overages, but, that would also apply to O’Neil!! O’Neil is the
    dog they want to kick — STAY HOME DOUG! Your explanation need only
    be given to the appropriate officials, PERIOD!

  • Tinky

    I see, so you always tell the truth except when it might incriminate one of your employers.

    Then why on earth should anyone believe your O’Neill propaganda?

  • James D. Jimenez

    Thank you.

  • Wingtips

    I wouldn’t believe the $250K legal defense figure unless I saw every legal bill, cashed check, and bank statement.  The O’Neills have a penchant for telling tell tales when they try to make a point.

  • James D. Jimenez

    The person wasn’t an employer and never had a ruling against them.

  • Clem Clemson

    Again. Forget the milkshakes.  Everyone knows you can test for that. DO is onto bigger and better things.  Designer drugs that are undectable. By the way – there is an easy test for SARMS.   It makes your vision go bad, especially at night. Someone should check IHA’s vision.

  • James D. Jimenez

    I’ve seen electrical devises used.

  • James D. Jimenez

    He seemed to be able to Bodemeister really well during the late afternoon nad was biting at reporters in the stall after the race. Eyesight seems pretty good to me but I’m not an opthamologist.

  • stillriledup

    The whole ‘googling’ the term milkshake is really hard to believe. To believe that Doug or Dennis had ‘never heard of’ this term after being in the industry for decades is something i’m finding hard to fathom.

  • Wingtips

    What was DO’s record when he had to run out of the detention barn?

  • dh

    same as Mullins.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Guys and girls it’s 8:00pm and I need to get caught up with paperwork and other things to prepare for a return trip to New York to shoe IHA. I see this run as a great thing for racing at a time when racing needs a great thing to happen. I walked over with IHA for both the Derby and Preakness and can tell you that I never heard a single negative comment or yell from the crowd. Fans want this Triple Crown to be won and love this horse and the people associated with him. I am very proud to be associated with a great owner, trainer, crew and horse. If I thought that there were illegal things going on in this barn I would walk away and never give it a second thought. We may be witnessing history in the making and that will make a few of you angry but I know it is making countless thousands happy and me proud. I have spoken openly and truthfully and would have to be a complete fool to think that every mind can be changed. I’m not a fool and won’t try. I was born into this sport and have devoted virtually my entire life to doing the best I can to help horses. My goal is to be able to stand before God when the day comes and be told I did well. Judge me as you will as your judgement has no bearing on my life. Wish for me what you will and I wish for you twice as much.

  • Frank L.

     

    Tinky —

    You have no room to talk. At least
    James is at the track every day, in a barn, working.

    Now, James, do YOU see why Doug should
    stay home? These people, especially Tinky, live a dreamed up fantasy
    world, ruled by failure!! Doug would be only lowering himself to
    even address these type people!!!

    Another question: Why does Clem Clemson
    know so much about “NEW” designer drugs?

  • Clem Clemson

    DO had to run out of the Hollywood Dentention Barn from June 13 to July 13, 2006, BECAUSE HE GOT CAUGHT MILKSHAKING. He had 100 horses at Hollywood and was the leading trainer in 2004 with $9.4 million in earnings. He hit a bad patch for those 30 days in the barn.  Who woulda thunk it?

  • Clem Clemson

    James.  I hope that you get the thrill and privilege of shoeing a Triple Crown winner, and that for all the days of your life, you remember that you did your earnest part to get him there.  That would be a fine legacy.  And no matter what, you have the right to crow.  So have a good time in NY. Enjoy your time in the sun.

  • Wingtips

    Guess his horses didn’t fit the condition book.

  • Wingtips

    You’re worn out, just like Bode at the sixteenth pole.

  • Frank L.

    James —

    Don’t pay any attention to Tinky, as
    usual, he doesn’t know what he is talking about. At least you do
    have “barn experience”!! Milkshaking was “NEVER” a potent
    form of winning — you verified this, yourself, when you stated
    that 3 of Doug’s horses in question, as far as milkshaking, finished
    out of the money!!! Pretty powerful stuff!! This is indicative of
    Tinky’s understanding of what he is talking about. He is obviously
    jealous of the success that Doug has had, and is “hell bent” on
    tearing him down. James, you need not say anymore — Tinky will
    just try to twist what you have to say!! Go to bed, Doug does not
    need your help any further!! Understand, your on a very dangerous,
    negative site — ANYTHING, now I said “ANYTHING”, you may
    innocently say could be twisted by the likes of Tinky. You can see
    for yourself what he does, and the extent of his understanding of the
    back side. Please take my advice!!!

  • Frank L.

    James —

    Don’t pay any attention to Tinky, as
    usual, he doesn’t know what he is talking about. At least you do
    have “barn experience”!! Milkshaking was “NEVER” a potent
    form of winning — you verified this, yourself, when you stated
    that 3 of Doug’s horses in question, as far as milkshaking, finished
    out of the money!!! Pretty powerful stuff!! This is indicative of
    Tinky’s understanding of what he is talking about. He is obviously
    jealous of the success that Doug has had, and is “hell bent” on
    tearing him down. James, you need not say anymore — Tinky will
    just try to twist what you have to say!! Go to bed, Doug does not
    need your help any further!! Understand, your on a very dangerous,
    negative site — ANYTHING, now I said “ANYTHING”, you may
    innocently say could be twisted by the likes of Tinky. You can see
    for yourself what he does, and the extent of his understanding of the
    back side. Please take my advice!!!

  • Frank L.

    Tinky —

    Again, Clembuterol, is tested for, and
    allowed only in trace amounts. Maybe you should look up the
    definition of “trace”.

    Once again James —

    Shut down, your being bated!!

  • BSSniffer

    You would be wise to find someone to edit your comments, knows how to spell, and uses correct punctuation especially when it comes to the difference of “‘” and a “,”. 

  • BSSniffer

    DH,

    Is Doug the only trainer to have a horse break down on the track? Every trainer who has been training for any number of years has had a horse break down. I bet if you looked at the number of starts vs. break downs for Doug he would be well within the norm. 

  • BSSniffer

    Stanley, what kind of name is that? God your obnoxious….

  • BSSniffer

    Stanley:

    With stats like these you should consider spending more time learning how to train horses then writing posts.

    Stanley Inman2012 Statistics:
    Starts: N/AFirsts: N/ASeconds: N/AThirds: N/AEarnings: N/ACareer Statistics:
    Starts: 22Firsts: 1Seconds: 1Thirds: 4Earnings: $12,597All YearsYearStartsFirstsSecondsThirdsEarnings201114114$12,15120108000$446

  • Delmarla

    For a tv station that is supposed to be intelligent in their reporting the news I thought that was a useless, unsupported knock of the current horse that they are reporting on, I’ll Have Another. Why do they feel the need to tarnish horse racing further when there is NOT a positive in question? Unnecessary CNN and I don’t appreciate it.

  • BSSniffer

    You seem to know a lot for a trainer with less than a 5% win percentage and 12K in purse earnings. A monkey could do a better job.

  • Stanley inman

    You handsome devil,
    You got the podium
    Regale us

  • Stanley inman

    Pour it on my friend
    (Come out from behind the cover I can’t see ya)

  • Stanley inman

    Hey thanks for the compliment,
    I can’t train for you, I’m not a public trainer,
    Give my friend frank a call
    You guys would really like each other.

  • Stanley inman

    Ahhhh, the one my mother gave me?
    She reads all my posts; so please show her A little respect.
    Speaking of names
    Tell me about yours,from your mother too?

  • Stanley inman

    Glad you recognized that stat.
    I’m proud of it. Breed that horse, as well as her dam.
    (Bought her granddam for a ham sandwich at keeneland, got lucky when her foal jumped up and made 500k.)
    Saved her life, (impaction) nobody else would have put a nickle’s worth of a training bill in her. Was in the money almost 50 per cent., my first official owner/breeder/trainer.she ran at the bottom, I retired her,( I don’t race cheap claimers) I ride her every day on the farm, pony off her, stats dont tell the full story, but you know that.

  • Stanley inman

    I just figured it out-the name, the anger
    You’re dennis O’neill
    Right?
    I was hoping you’d show
    It’s late,
    Everybody’s gone but I’m still waiting.

  • Doodlbird

     Frank Lyons

  • Al

    You can say that again.

  • FlyFilly

    Yes. It is. Accusations of milkshaking toward the O’Neill clan aren’t news to me, and neither is the denial. A story in the mainstream on their past reputation was a given the moment they won the Derby, unfortunately.

    What’s disturbing to me is the complete lack of education, the shoddy research, and unclear communication that for most racing-ignorants, translates into “The next potential Triple Crown winner is racing on drugs. They all race on drugs. We don’t know what milkshakes are but they’re very bad and we shouldn’t be happy if this guy wins in NY”. The piece didn’t do a good job of clarifying that the bad tests were 6 years ago, that they had nothing to do with IHA, or that he has been so rigorously tested for this and anything else they can test for, that if this horse were dirty we’dve heard about it.

    And no, I dont’ believe they’d never heard of milkshaking. 

  • IrishMick

    Oh Frankie, my lad…When will you ever learn not to attempt to have a battle of wits with an unarmed individual.

  • RayPaulick

     Not true. Frank Lyons has commented on this site, using his full name.

  • Richard DeSantis

    Why dosen’t everyone just keep quiet until aer the Belmont ?
    We all know that IHA ran the 1st 2 legs CLEAN ! If the press & everyone else who wants to jump on the “lets’ get O’Neills” bandwagon, you’ll have the rest of the year to do it ! He has a GREAT horse under is tutelage, so lets’ all just sit back and enjoy the show and hope he is the first horse in 34 years to win the TRIPLE CROWN !! Racing needs this !
    RW DeSantis

  • Upstart

    Not even close.

    Spew the vitriol.  There are many people for whom the definition of Team O’Neill is the nefarious treatment of Burna Dette.

  • Bookiebuster1

    riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight neither does Mullins….

  • Bookiebuster1

    Chump change when your protecting your piece of a very lucrative pie my friend that’s nickels and dimes in the big picture.

  • Cass

     I absolutely agree.  Even I have heard about milkshaking and I am only a breeder

  • Jsmith

    Erin needs to get a clue.  This is extremely shoddy journalism.  There was no positive test on I’ll Have Another for milkshaking and, even if O’Neill was suspended from a different charge, the horse would still run in the Belmont.  Clowns.

  • swaps55

    Interesting comments. Emotional hot button issue obviously. I note that whenever a trainer has some success he or she can immediately be accused of drugging the horse. There are a lot of supplements out there that are legal and are more herbal or complex mineral type additives.

    From personal experience, I can say that steroid drugs given to me for asthma really boosted my energy and performance. And we can all recall how Big Brown performed early in the year on steroids and later in the season when Dutrow supposedly stopped administering it in response to criticism.  Maybe  the other horses just developed more and caught up to BB.

    As for milkshaking, I vaguely recall our trainer, who is retired and shall not be named, mentioning giving milkshakes to our horse pre-race. That was in Arizona more than 20 years ago.  The horse was not a world beater but some pretty good horses passed through the hands of the trainer, enroute to name trainers. 

  • Kelwin

    Well, certainly if the O’Neil’s googled “Milkshaking Racehorses” they now well know what they have been doing all this time. I found it curious when I googled liar it came up Doug and Dennis O’Neil. The O’Neil group is going to find out their triple crown glory road is going to be loaded with ugly potholes they created.

    Dennis O’Neil’s statement is an embarrassment to horse racing and should not be forgotten. They are tarnishing our sport. It is past time to eliminate this element from racing. 

  • James D. Jimenez

    After a good nights sleep and re-reading this thread I’d like to post some final thoughts. 

    It appears that most everyone here can at least see both sides of this issue and realize that this is far from cut and dried. My current knowledge of milkshaking through reading and talking to many people that know the facts is that it has been around a very long time. Does it work? There seems to be about a 50/50 split on that as there seems to be no scientific proof that it does and how can anyone ever prove that a horse that was given a milkshake or even drugged for that matter wasn’t going to win anyway? Of the four horses that Doug had test over, 2 ran last and one ran 8th and I can’t find info on the 4th. These facts seem to prove the 50% group of people of the opinion that it doesn’t work. 

    As to Mr. O’Neill milkshaking a horse: I’ve been shoeing his horses for 18 years and I respect him as a horseman but I do not believe he has the knowledge to safely insert a tube into a horses nose and into the stomach and administering a milkshake. Done wrong, and it has happened to vets, and going into the lungs could kill a horse, and this has also happened to vets. If Doug does have the ability to tube a horse all I can say is I’ve never seen him do it.

    In reference to me not being able to see what’s going on in the barn: In the last 18 years Mr. O’Neill has run over 10,000 horses and I’m in that barn many hours because of the service I provide. In addition, think about the many barn employees that he has had over those years (some surely disgruntled). Do you really think nobody would have said something by now. Also, what about the countless number of people that are always walking in the barn and the security people that are around and/or posted at the barn? 

    I believe I’m a reasonable person and if anyone can post scientific proof that milkshaking actually works I would move over to that 50% group. If anyone has seen or has proof that Doug has milkshaked a horse I would reconsider my stance. But until then I can only go by what I have seen and know to be 100% true. And the fact that’s there’s evidence that certain CHRB employees had targeted Doug and others it is my thought that you have to be closed minded not to see this objectively and consider other possibilities. 

    Lastly, I’ve always been a fan of Erin Burnett, but after seeing this video and how poorly it was presented I fall back on the saying, believing nothing you hear and only half of what you read. Having spoken to reporters that are taping our conversation and reading the subsequent written article boy do I know this to be true.

    Do not fail to see how having a Triple Crown winner this year could be fantastic for our business. Also if you are so petty to be rooting against Mr. O’Neill, consider the owners and all the personnel around I’ll Have Another that devote countless hours to the well being of all horses. If that isn’t enough, consider the horse, he is the best of a very talented 3 year old crop of horses that lays it all out to win. If that isn’t enough then ask yourself, are you a fan of horse racing?

    I leave you with the thought: Wish what you will for Team O’Neill, we will wish twice as much!

    James D. Jimenez

  • James is exactly right and said something that hasn’t been brought up and needed to be said which is “one mistake and you’ve got a dead horse.” Incorrect tubing of a horse will drown and kill them.

    I am confident that less than 5% of the people who work on the backside of any track in the country are even capable of tubing a horse. I’m sure I will get bashed by plenty of posters here for this statement. I’m also confident that all of the posters who bash me will be those who have no experience in this area whatsoever, because those who do know that I’m speaking the truth.

    Not only is tubing a horse not easy to do but it is also time consuming. I watched the process a number of times over 20 years ago before tubing was illegal in many states. It takes at least 20 minutes.

    I’m willing to bet you can’t find a practicing vet at 95% of the tracks in the country who is willing to “milkshake” a horse. For most it is an ethical issue but for the remainder it simply isn’t worth the risk. There is no viable excuse for having a tube in a horses stall which is racing later that day and there is no way to hide the “milkshake” tubing and ingredients if security is walking through the barn.

    For the same reasons mentioned above even those trainers who might be willing to break the rules by “milkshaking” are unlikely to do so. 

    I am not willing to say that “milkshaking” never occurs but I can promise you that the vast majority of times that it does happen is with horses who ship in on the morning or afternoon that they are scheduled to race.

    The chances that a horse is being given a “milkshake” at a farm or unsecured training center where the risk of being caught in the act is either nonexistent or very unlikely is much greater than the chances that a horse is given  a “milkshake” at the track on raceday.

    Tinky’s statement that Jamesisn’t in the barn the other 22 hours of the day is simply an uneducated one. To have any effect “milkshaking” needs to be done within 4 to 6 hours of the race.

  • Anne

    http://sports.espn.go.com/spor
    Doug O’Neill is no John Shirreffs (or Michael Matz or Graham Motion or Bill Mott or …you get the picture)

    (2) reasons I will never be a fan:
    1. an 11 yo gelding who made over $5 Million is standing in a square box 23 hours a day
    2. Burna Dette

    Will IHA receive another shockwave therapy prior to the Belmont? 

  • James D. Jimenez

    “An 11 yo gelding who made over $5 Million is standing in a square box 23 hours a day”
    This is a bald face LIE!!!!!! Lava Man is saddled around 4:30am and is walking with horses to and from the track till around 10:00am at which time he’s is bathed walked and put away until his afternoon walk.                                    
    It is irresponsible to post things that you have ZERO clue about! You should be ashamed of yourself!

  • Anne

    Oh yeah, you’re right…I feel so ashamed…forgive me – he has to work as a stable pony and then he goes back in the square box. Meanwhile my 11 yo claimer is rolling in the sand and eating fresh grass all day…

  • Convene

    Without commenting on the guilt or innocence of the parties involved – people even loosely involved in the game know what a milkshake is, so when a team as high up the ladder as the O’Neills claim they DON’T know, one might have to wonder what other ordinary pieces of information might they not know. Bad choice of words, guys. Better just to say, “We haven’t ever milkshaked a horse.” Whether it’s true or not, it would make them sound a whole lot brighter – and of course they ARE brighter. However their accusations work out, none of these guys could ever be called a dummy.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Another post proving you’re foolishness!

    Lava Man was retired and put in the picture perfect field with green grass and did very poorly becoming depressed and loosing weight. Brought back to the barn and retrained as a stable pony he has blossomed once again. You’ve seen the photos, videos and TV coverage and can make such a foolish statement. Yes, you should be ashamed! 

  • Convene

     Cause they weren’t good enough to win anyway! I’m not convinced milkshaking actually does add to performance – but I think using them adds a great deal of info about the people who try it. And I’m singling out no one for that comment; I apply it equally to those who seek to weight the dice.

  • Anne

    Yes and the O’Neill bros think you get milkshakes at McDonalds too.

  • Nucky Thompson

    Winning the Triple Crown would be the cherry on top for the O’Neill brothers

  • James D. Jimenez

    Your original post has made me so agree that I can’t even think straight! You are an ill informed absolute idiot and I will not address you. With all the things that have been written and filmed about the fantastic life Lava Man has now for you to post otherwise proves that certain people, like you, have an evil agenda! In my opinion you are a very evil person!

    Done with you and your kind!!!!!!

  • free reign

    That is hysterical in so many ways. lol Imagine the delight of the other horsemen/owners. Rule following or not.

  • Frank l.

    James —

    As I mentioned to you before, you can’t
    argue with ignorance!! The people on this site do “NOT” want to
    hear the truth, no more than lynch mobs of the past wanted to hear
    the truth. You have been ridiculed for telling the truth — doesn’t
    that say something to “YOU”? You understand what you know, and
    know what you say “IS” true, yet the know nothings, here,
    fabricate untrue statements based on what the media puts forth —
    again, doesn’t that tell you something.

    You have done your best, NOW, it is
    time to quit. Further discussion, on your part, at this point can
    only be a detriment to Doug O’Neil!! Hang it up! Also, understand
    that just because some person is rooting against you does “NOT”
    mean that it has any affect on the outcome. You see, that’s what
    makes loser’s, loser’s — lack of understanding. Keep in mind, all
    those who are rooting against Doug, have already rooted against him
    and “LOST”, but they still think they can affect the outcome by
    rooting against Doug, again. How many horses, plural, have these
    people gambled on and “LOST” even though they “WERE ROOTING”
    for them to win? The problem that you have, as I see it, is that you
    worry to much about what “know nothings” think — do you
    remember the name Cassius Clay? If not, look the name up and take a
    lesson from him!! You are NOT dealing with fans, on this site, your
    dealing with people who think they are more than who they really are,
    because they can fantasize being someone/something that , in
    truth/reality, they are not!!

  • Frank l.

    James —

    As I mentioned to you before, you can’t
    argue with ignorance!! The people on this site do “NOT” want to
    hear the truth, no more than lynch mobs of the past wanted to hear
    the truth. You have been ridiculed for telling the truth — doesn’t
    that say something to “YOU”? You understand what you know, and
    know what you say “IS” true, yet the know nothings, here,
    fabricate untrue statements based on what the media puts forth —
    again, doesn’t that tell you something.

    You have done your best, NOW, it is
    time to quit. Further discussion, on your part, at this point can
    only be a detriment to Doug O’Neil!! Hang it up! Also, understand
    that just because some person is rooting against you does “NOT”
    mean that it has any affect on the outcome. You see, that’s what
    makes loser’s, loser’s — lack of understanding. Keep in mind, all
    those who are rooting against Doug, have already rooted against him
    and “LOST”, but they still think they can affect the outcome by
    rooting against Doug, again. How many horses, plural, have these
    people gambled on and “LOST” even though they “WERE ROOTING”
    for them to win? The problem that you have, as I see it, is that you
    worry to much about what “know nothings” think — do you
    remember the name Cassius Clay? If not, look the name up and take a
    lesson from him!! You are NOT dealing with fans, on this site, your
    dealing with people who think they are more than who they really are,
    because they can fantasize being someone/something that , in
    truth/reality, they are not!!

  • Frank l.

    So What!  That’s what a good trainer does — he looks after his horse, further, the procedure is “NOT” illegal!!!

  • Frank L

    Agenda’s, Agenda’s!!

  • Anne

    On top of their milkshake?? Ha Ha…sorry I just couldn’t resist! I find Doug O’Neill engaging and he is clearly a talented trainer. His horse is amazing and I wish nothing but the best for IHA, as I do for all horses, including Burna Dette – but it’s too late for her. 

    There are people in this business for whom it is just that – a business. There are others for whom it’s much more, for whom this industry transcends both sport and business, because there are animals involved (beautiful, glorious and noble ones at that). O’Neill’s history indicates that for him it’s just a business. I hope his future is different.

  • Frank L

    Herewego —

    You are 100% correct on all counts.
    I’ve even had trouble getting my horses tube wormed — lucky I have
    an older vet!!

    I’m sure you see the “ignorance”
    displayed on this site from those who comment. The rub — they get
    vile once you point out their ignorance. Now, I understand that
    ignorance is not a nice word, BUT, nevertheless that’s the only
    appropriate word that describes the vast inexperience of those who
    comment HERE!!

  • Frank L

    They are obviously more aware than you “THINK” you are!!

  • Frank L

    That’s the agenda of the media in crucifying O’Neil!!  The fact the media acts in an underhanded way should make one suspect of a National Governing Body, just based on that????!!

  • Frank L

    FlyFilly —

    What do “YOU” mean by really bad?
    This is one of the problem on this site — generalizations.
    Milkshakes are “NOT” really bad, as the substance goes. The
    worst thing about the milkshake, as far as the horse is concerned, is
    the tubing!! Not just anybody can tube a horse!!

  • Frank L

    Maybe, because most here do “NOT” know what they are talking about — being led by the nose by others who “DON’T know!!!

  • Dc

    Right on!! DO’s guilt or innocence aside, I wish people would figure out just what a milkshake is, the fact that everyone thinks it’s a performance enhancing drug just shows their ignorance about the whole matter. And I am with your Vet on the subject 100%.

  • Dc

    Has it occurred to you that Lava Man might not be a happy horse with no job to do? He seems to be loving his job and I might add the attention he is used to getting from his fans, Lava Man is the biggest reason to admire Doug, the fact that the horse is 11 and still able to be a useful member of the horse world says a lot about the good care he has received, from “that evil Doug O”.

  • James D. Jimenez

    I just left the barn after talking to Dennis O’Neill and after hearing a complete explanation of the above interview and not just cut and pasted tidbits he has agreed to come here and post a full explanation. If people can refrain from acting ignorant I believe he will answer some posted questions. 

  • Dc

    Do you really know what a milk shake is? by the way McDonalds has excellent milkshakes.

  • Twilight Tear

     If you are not a fan, then why in the heck are you visiting this page??

  • Diane C.

    This reminds me of people who begin a statement with, “I’m not prejudiced but….” or “I have nothing against women but….” You can be darned certain they are prejudiced and they are against women. “We had to Google it but…..”

  • Having spent a lot of time in the O’Neill Barn, I can tell you that if there’s any milkshaking going on, they all should become CIA agents. Too many outside people coming and going all day, every day. Doug has an open barn policy. Any of you would be welcome there at any time. No clandistine operation with illegal drugging going on in every corner. The incident that you are all talking about happened two years ago. For a barn that runs more horses than just about everyone else, that’s a lot of clean drug tests since.

    Every vitamin supplement for muscle fatigue and tieing-up syndrome have the same ingredients as what you would tube a horse with while milkshaking. Every horse is different and some will retain supplements longer.

    Dennis’s comment seems idiotic but if you knew him, you would know he was being facetious and just trying to make a point. He didn’t say he Goggled it yesterday. How about giving him credit for picking out this horse for only $35,000?

    Really just seems like a lot of jealous and unhappy people trying to diminish what should be a good story. If your reason is that you can’t stand seeing “cheaters” win, remember this horse has tested clean every start of his life.

  • Frank L

    Desertrailrat —

    Yes it takes you to Aol, user name:
    wakywillie. That info is needed to comment, in the first place.
    Still don’t know what you mean by phishing. No big deal to me!!!

  • James D. Jimenez

    10,000 starts and 4 horses with an elevated amount of an allowed substance. Dennis, remember our conversation in Baltimore about you and your family visiting Washington, D.C.? I just cut and pasted our conversation and now have proof that it was you on the grassy knoll on that faithful day. I think we better talk before I post this info. And please the fact that you weren’t even born yet has nothing to do with the story, LOL!!!!!

  • Tinky

    Thanks for chiming in. Too bad that no one was referring to I’ll Have Another, nor were they claiming that O’ Neill is currently milkshaking.

    Feel free to explain why he won at an 11% clip when forced to train out of a detention barn at Hollywood during the relevant time period.

  • Double Jay

    Amen!

  • Swamp Fox

    Yesterday I posted; Memo to Doug. Keep your brother off TV and away from people with notebooks and tape recorders during the next three weeks.

    Today I would like to amend that post to include James D. Jimenez posting on the Paulick Report. Doug, these guys are killing you, IHA and Mario and the game… word by word.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Please reference one item that I have posted that is negative.

    But don’t worry, I’m out of here. There are so many positive people in this world that it seems silly to spend time here with even one negative person. I wish you all good things in life and bid you a fond adieu.

  • desertrailrat

     Why do you need a link to some AOL page that my antivirus blocks?  Why do you need two user ID’s one as Frank L. and one as Frank with that link?  Why am I having to explain this to you? 

  • Double Jay

    Great parting words Mr. Jimenez. Don’t give this blog any more space in your brain!!!!! Go in peace and enjoy what lies before you. Enjoy the ride!

  • desertrailrat

     Or why do Sadler (methocarbomate) and O’Neill (milkshakes) get to rake in the dough while Jenine Sahadi walks away because nobody wants a clean trainer?  Unfair universe, I don’t know I think Zito still has the curse of Wanderin Boy following him.  Dunderheads?  Definitely, and thanks for the laugh.  Been in several dog food processing plants because of my profession and have yet to see a horse carcass or parts rendered though thankfully.

  • Dennis o

     after reading thru these comments, holy cow. i swore i would never go on one of these web sites, but after getting hammered the last couple days, i thought what the heck. it was entertaining to read thru this stuff. thank god for jimmy. i don’t think tinky will change her opinion, but that is fine, i love your passion and love for the sport.
      when  cnn called it was explained they were doing a story on doug and our family. i thought , great, cnn this will be easy. it was a 15 minute interview that early on i realized this was not gonna be good. he went into the milkshake thing and it caught me by surprise. Of course i know what a milkshake is, i have been in the business for 30 years and have heard the term for probably 15. what i was referring to was administering a milkshake. i remember going to the computer when we had our 1st one and researching how you you do it. i know alot of you think we are liars and continue to deny these charges, so me saying we have never milkshaked a horse is not gonna change your mind. but, the cnn interview took a long interview and used little tidbits of what was said. they were intent on making there point, and did not want the truth to effect that.the chrb had come out and said any suspension would not be in effect till after the belmont.they also insinuate that the horse was milkshaked before the derby and preakness and will be again before the belmont. the horse has had 4 security guards on him 24 hours a day and a video camara in his stall. the piece was very poorly researched and done.cnn has promised a clarifacation on air today or tomorrow. erin tweeted an apology.
      the main point i wanted to make was there are 1000 things that effect your and a horses tc02 level. none of that made it to the air. i think even rick arthur now calls it a tc02 positive. and contrary to a couple posts, noone that i know of has ever been caught sticking a tube in a horse. i no doug hasn’t. i also mentioned there have been 4 or 5 positives the last couple years that have proven to be natural. i think rick violette had one and there was one in kentucky, horses that tested positive a week later under security. i think if you guys wait till the facts come out some of you may change your mind.
     on another note, that is being less and less a story, i’ll have another went great this morning and continues to thrive. he will start galloping friday.
      now, can we all be a little nicer and see if the racing gods have decided that i’ll have another deserves to be triple crown winner.  and i promise, to ease all your fears, i will not do anymore interviews.

  • Anne

    b/c I’m a HUGE fan of racing, which is exactly why I’m not a fan of Doug O’Neill (read my post from the beginning if you don’t understand). There’s more discussion on the web about his record than there most likely is about IHA. Too bad for racing, and that can’t be denied by his most ardent supporters (all 3 of whom are attempting damage control this blog).

  • Anne

    The thought occurred to me, but it was quickly dismissed. No matter how much I try, I just can’t bring myself to believe that at 11 years old this horse would rather work than eat. He is, after all, a horse. He could have a very nice cushy job on a very nice farm somewhere. I saw the video w/Doug pushing the ‘easy’ button. Funny and good thing this horse doesn’t know what he is missing.

  • Jimculpepper

    I am amazed that people can become so focused on sweetened gator aide with baking soda mixed in, given what else is at issue.  I sometimes use soda for an over dose of cookies, but I haven’t noticed any enhanced performance.

  • Frank L.

    Bobby —
    You make to much sense to be commenting here — don’t try to reason with ignorance.  James already tried, no dice!!!

  • Frank L.

    Big mistake!!  Maybe, you haven’t learned anything about this site!!

  • Frank l.

    James
    James —

    Finally — I hope you learned, You
    can’t reason with ignorance!!

    The only thing Swamp Fox can hold
    against you is your positive slant on O’Neil!! Again, ignorance
    holds NO part in truth. With respect to people who continually
    loose, it is very easy for them to down someone, BUT, very, very,
    difficult to admit someone else is a winner. I believe that most of
    them cannot even imagine winning, especially over, and over.

    James, “YOU” are a winner,
    therefore, you “DON”T” need recognition from people who
    continually loose — in fact, it CAN”T be done — it goes
    “against their grain”!! Hope you do understand what I am saying,
    I know the others can’t!!!

    And then they ALL wonder why I answer
    as I do.

    I thought you held up very well under
    the insults from inferior, inexperienced people — Ref: Swamp Fox!!

  • Frank L.

    Tinky —
    Bobby doesn’t have to explain anything to YOU — You are a nobody, beyond understanding what is said anyway.  The explanation goes to the racing officials ONLY!!!

  • Nucky Thompson

    Anne,
     
    You and Cass should hook up :)
     
    http://www.paulickreport.com/n

  • James D. Jimenez

    Frank,
    Thank you again for the very kind words and suggestion. I just checked in to see what Dennis had written and I’m glad he found time to post an explanation. This site couldn’t possibly get me down but I’m walking away anyway just because I have some very important business ahead of me. The first page of my work notebook has a page with one single word typed in the center, FOCUS. I’ve carried that laminated page since I started shoeing and look at it before I start every horse. It’s time to FOCUS on matters at hand and this site simply doesn’t matter. This world is a wonderful place because the good, happy, wonderful people hugely outnumber the bad, sad, evil people. Why be near or speak to one negative person when there are thousands of positive people to choose from? I wish you and everyone here well and have already removed Paulick Report from my favorites. Triple Crown: Why not us? (That’s Doug’s saying).

  • Anne

    yeah maybe. I’m only slightly quicker. Thanks for the feed. ;-)

  • desertrailrat

     Thanks Dennis, it takes some brass ones to jump into a lion’s den like this.  Glad to hear IHA is doing well.  I’m not going to say I believe you guys are hay, oats, and water only guys but at least you made the effort to write that post and defend yourself.  The decision to not dump Mario showed class, he had some real doozies that must have had you worried the two weeks prior to the Derby.  

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