O’Neill: 45-day ban, $15K fine in TCO2 case despite hearing officer opinion horse not ‘milkshaked’

  • click above & share!
    X
  • click above & share!
    X


  • click above & share!
    X
  • click above & share!
    X

The California Horse Racing Board met in closed session Thursday to consider the recommended decision of the Hearing Officer in the case involving Doug O’Neill, the trainer of Argenta, a filly that finished eighth in the sixth race at Del Mar on August 25, 2010. The Maddy Laboratory at UC Davis reported that a sample taken from Argenta exceeded the regulatory threshold of 37.0mml/l for total carbon dioxide (TCO2), a Class 3 violation.

The Hearing Officer, who conducted a 7-day hearing, agreed with O’Neill that the evidence demonstrated that Argenta had not been milkshaked, so milkshaking was not the cause of the TCO2 overage. He also determined there were no suspicious betting patterns in the race. He further determined there was no evidence of any intentional acts on the part of O’Neill in connection with this incident.

However, prior to the hearing, the parties had stipulated that the Maddy laboratory detected an overage of TCO2 in the sample, and CHRB Rule 1887 holds the trainer to be the absolute insurer of the condition of the horse.

Furthermore, The Jockey Club has publicly stated that “trainers should be advised that the elevated TCO2 values, regardless of causation, are violations of the rules and those penalties for excessive TCO2 values are severe. Therefore, trainers and their veterinarians should work closely to identify any procedure or practices that may elevate the TCO2 values.”

The Hearing Officer found that under the trainer insurer rule, while also taking into consideration the mitigating factors, that O’Neill should be suspended for a period of 45 days, with an additional 135 days of suspension stayed for 18 months, provided O’Neill commits no further Class 1, 2, or 3 violations, regardless of jurisdiction. The hearing officer also recommended a $15,000 fine.

The Board concurred with this recommendation. CHRB Executive Director Kirk Breed will determine  when the 45 days of suspension will begin, but in any event no sooner than July 1, 2012.

Following the decision, O’Neill issued the following statement: “I’m gratified that the CHRB found that I did not ‘milkshake’ a horse or engage in any intentional conduct that would result in an elevated TC02 level. I plan on examining and reviewing all of my options following the Belmont Stakes, but right now I plan on staying focused on preparing for and winning the Triple Crown.”

New to the Paulick Report? Click here to sign up for our daily email newsletter to keep up on this and other stories happening in the Thoroughbred industry
  • roger

    if horse wasn’t milkshaked…..what other reasons for elevated levels?

    • Mwimberley279

      I have read that withdrawal of water and lasix can cause an elevated tco2 level. Something that almos t every trainer does.

      • Vegas Bettor

        I spoke with a buddy of mine this morning who bets horses and is a PHD chemist.  He says there is NO WAY a horse can test higher than 32 without ‘help.’  He said 37.0mml/l is way generous as a suspension threshold.

        • James D. Jimenez

          First 35 is the limit not 37! How about the fact that it’s been proven that horses have tested higher than 35 while in 24 guarded stalls with cameras and tested for 3 days!

          • Tinky

            James can’t even get his facts straight…

            “The California Horse Racing Board has filed a complaint against trainer Doug O’Neill for an alleged total carbon dioxide (TCO2) violation—the fourth time since 2006 a horse in his care tested above the threshold level for what is commonly called “milkshaking.” The latest allegation involves Argenta, who finished eighth in the sixth race at Del Mar on Aug. 25. The CHRB complaint did not specify the level at which Argenta tested, only that the daughter of Mineshaft exceeded the regulatory threshold of 37.00mml/l for TCO2.”

            That was 37, not 35 James.

          • James D. Jimenez

            You are correct it is now 37, my error. This number is not uniform state to state or country to country.

          • James D. Jimenez

            Or at least it hasn’t always been uniform, maybe they got their crap together and at least got the number uniform worldwide but I’d be surprised if that is the case.

          • RayPaulick

             Some states allow higher than 37 if horses are given furosemide. In Australia the cutoff is 35.0.

        • Herewego

          The normal range for a horse without lasix is 28 to 32 mml/l which goes up approximately 2.0 for a horse on lasix. There are many outliers to this normal range who are in the 34 to 35 mml range normal thus the need for a threshold testing level or 36 or 37 mml.

          Dr. Stanley at UC Davis, the California testing lab, has done extensive research on various alkalizing substances by themselves and in combination and to my knowledge has never been able to come up with any combination that will make a horse within the normal range test positive other than the administration of a “milkshake”. This begs the question of if Argenta wasn’t “milkshaked” as the hearing officer and the CHRB, how could she test positive. Unfortunately, Davis’s research has not been published and therefore likely wasn’t available to be admitted as evidence in this case.

          One possible although not probable explanation is that lasix was administered to Argenta closer than three hours prior to the horse racing. Dr. George Maylin lab director at Cornell which conducts all testing for NYRA and I believe New Jersey as well has told me on several occasions that TC02 readings for horses administered lasix within three hours of post time are widely inconsistent and inaccurate.

          I don’t know what happened in this particular case but I did want to point out some facts which aren’t widely known by the general public to let everyone know this is a very complex issue.

      • Tammy37

        there are 1000 reasons for a high tc02, lasix, sex,temperature,supplements, and each person or horse has a different tc02 level. there have been 4 across the country in the last 3 years that were thrown out because they tested high a week later under security. this is a dumb test that may now be relooked at.

        • Tinky

          Ridiculous. As VB touches on below, the threshold levels are far to high to result from “1000 reasons”. 

      • Concerned

        Then why are the usual suspects the only ones with violations?

      • Cass

         Then almost every trainer should have an elevated level of tcow.  But that is not the case is it?

    • James D. Jimenez

      Test are FLAWED!!!!!

      • Concerned Observer

        James, Your arguments are simplistic at best. Obviously you like, trust and support O’neill. That does not make it right. It was obvious with his history of violations  that a derby win would bring too much scrutiny. Now it has. Just what we need, lots of excuses, denials and finger pointing. Why so much smoke if no fire?

        The ref said he stepped out of bounds…over and over and over.
        You say the ref needs glasses.  Why did so many others never step out of bounds with the same refs?

        Sounds familiar…kids can not read…the tests are flawed.

        We need real adult supervision in racing.

    • Frank L.

      Roger —

      Why don’t “YOU”
      visit the backside once in a while, instead of blowing your money on
      the front side — maybe then you “WOULD” learn something!! You
      are NOT going to understand anything here, on this site!! Understand
      THAT!! Do all your pooh pooing, and stay in ignorance — “YOU”,
      as most, are not interested in learning or understanding horse racing
      — just ridiculing, and twisting (That’s why your kind are
      comfortable on this site)!!

  • roger

    if horse wasn’t milkshaked…..what other reasons for elevated levels?

  • Dirtytrainersmakemeill

    A slap on the wrist.

    • Dylan Clarke

      Looks like a very good explaination

      • Dirtytrainersmakemeill

         yea ok if you live in a closet and do not understand chemistry.

  • Dirtytrainersmakemeill

    A slap on the wrist.

  • Mwimberley279

    I have read that withdrawal of water and lasix can cause an elevated tco2 level. Something that almos t every trainer does.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/UBMSLSDNMQGIUFM3ITSS2ZLKNI Al

    The reasoning makes absolute no sense.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/UBMSLSDNMQGIUFM3ITSS2ZLKNI Al

    The reasoning makes absolute no sense.

  • Vegas Bettor

    I spoke with a buddy of mine this morning who bets horses and is a PHD chemist.  He says there is NO WAY a horse can test higher than 32 without ‘help.’  He said 37.0mml/l is way generous as a suspension threshold.

  • Stanley inman

    Rule breakers win again!

    • James D. Jimenez

      Innocent man looses! These test are FLAWED!!!!! 

      • Frank L

        Again,
        James —

        You are addressing
        ignorance!!!! You do have to “UNDERSTAND” that, once and for
        all.

  • Stanley inman

    Rule breakers win again!

  • Dylan Clarke

    Looks like a very good explaination

  • Tammy37

    there are 1000 reasons for a high tc02, lasix, sex,temperature,supplements, and each person or horse has a different tc02 level. there have been 4 across the country in the last 3 years that were thrown out because they tested high a week later under security. this is a dumb test that may now be relooked at.

  • Dirtytrainersmakemeill

     yea ok if you live in a closet and do not understand chemistry.

  • Concerned

    Then why are the usual suspects the only ones with violations?

  • stillriledup

    Simon Bray on TVG is implying that someone snuck into Doug’s barn and gave his horse something. Bray, Wolf and Lyons are all trying to ‘convince’ the viewing public that Doug was railroaded. I’m not sure why they wouldnt come down hard on him, but maybe they know something we don’t?

     

    • Gerry

      That’s not what they said

      • stillriledup

        Its not?

        • HC

          Look folks, as an owner that has never had a positive and have many owner/trainer friends and acquaintences that have not had a positive, all racing on the CA circuit, if you race your horse clean you WILL NOT test positive. When there are numerous violations, it’s plain and simple, some trainers push the envelope either playing it too close with drug withdrawal times or simply using everything in their pharma toolbox they think may give their horse an edge. The only flaws in the testing is the inability to detect performance enhancing drugs that have been masked by other substances. What is even worse is the much higher than normal injury/breakdown rate for the trainer in question. Too bad those unfortunate horses that have met their doom in the most ghastly fashion under the care of Mr. charming trainer do not have a voice.

          • JC

             Thank you for saying all that. 

  • stillriledup

    Simon Bray on TVG is implying that someone snuck into Doug’s barn and gave his horse something. Bray, Wolf and Lyons are all trying to ‘convince’ the viewing public that Doug was railroaded. I’m not sure why they wouldnt come down hard on him, but maybe they know something we don’t?

     

  • Gerry

    That’s not what they said

  • Tinky

    Ridiculous. As VB touches on below, the threshold levels are far to high to result from “1000 reasons”. 

  • Big Red

    You folks just don’t get.
    D.O. and his brother have insisted all along that they did not milkshake the horse(s).
    By their and Google definition, a milkshake contains baking soda. OK, lets go with that.
    Problem is that what ever they are using (knowingly) raises TCO2 levels thus enhancing performance.
    Bottom line is that he got caught…….AGAIN
    End of story.

    • Don Reed

      This is the 59th time that I’ve been told I “don’t get it.”  I’m beginning to suspect that I’m stupid.

      • Frank l.

        Did it ever occur to you, you are?

  • Big Red

    You folks just don’t get.
    D.O. and his brother have insisted all along that they did not milkshake the horse(s).
    By their and Google definition, a milkshake contains baking soda. OK, lets go with that.
    Problem is that what ever they are using (knowingly) raises TCO2 levels thus enhancing performance.
    Bottom line is that he got caught…….AGAIN
    End of story.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Well there you have it haters, looks like you get to hang an innocent man. Forty five day ban and a $15,000 fine plus $250,000 in attorneys fees and you get to hang Doug after it’s proven he did nothing wrong. I have been telling you since day one that the testing procedures are flawed. Doug has sworn that he was innocent. You never gave him what all citizens are guaranteed “Innocent until proven guilty.” And now he has proven himself. Is this your America? It’s not mine!

    • Tinky

      Congratulations. Your ridiculous several day PR assault culminates in a single paragraph that includes both inaccuracies and silly assertions.

      1) “…after it’s proven he did nothing wrong.” This was just one of his four positives, so the notion that he is innocent is nonsense.

      2) “I have been telling you since day one that the testing procedures are flawed.” Then why aren’t false positives endemic? Why are the vast majority of the positives concentrated amongst a few trainers?

      3) “Doug has sworn that he was innocent.” Gee, I guess he must be innocent then.

      4) “You never gave him what all citizens are guaranteed…” No one is guaranteed innocence in the court of public opinion. Presumably you believe that O.J. was innocent as well.

      5) Given the amount of time you are spending on this forum, if IHA loses the Belmont, we can all reasonably assume that it was due to a lack of attention to his shoes.

      • James D. Jimenez

        WOW, Tinky you are petty!!!!
        I, like Doug, have been saying that he has never milkshaked a horse from day one! I, like Doug, have been saying that testing is flawed!Doug swore he was innocent because he always knew he was!The court of “negative” public opinion is made up of people like you who want to tear down anyone that reaches the top because you have no life!I’m in California taking care of horses here so don’t worry about IHA. Oh wait, now you want to tear me down because you can no longer say Doug milkshakes horses. YOU ARE PETTY!

        • Not a Peasant

          It’s called a peasant’s mentality. Tinky has it and so do the other success haters. Quite frankly, it’s the way they were raised. Until they reach some level of success in their professional life they will never understand how counterproductive their comments are to their fellow man.

          • Tinky

            Since you are “Not a Peasant”, the irony should be obvious to you that you ended a pure ad hominem attack with this:

            “…they will never understand how counterproductive their comments are to their fellow man.”

      • Frank L.

        Tinky —

        Once again, inexperience shows
        through!! I’ve been using Baking Soda in my feed for at least 25
        years, as have many other trainers. It was never considered
        dishonest, “UNTILL”, the pacifying of the public became
        fashionable. I won’t tell YOU why, I wouldn’t want to disturb your
        “complete” ignorance.

        These type explanations are not
        conducive to this type forum, anyway. If you want to meet at the
        track someday, WE, you and I, can talk. Maybe, at Doug O’Neil s
        barn? Personally, I don’t think you, or anyone here, are interested
        in “understanding” the truth of the why’s and wherefore’s of
        operating a barn. It would burst you negative bubble!!

        Go back to your fishing ——— in
        your toilet!!

    • Cass

       So why exactly does he have so many horses with elevated TCO2 levels?  Testing procedures seem to be flawed only with him.   Strange

      • James D. Jimenez

        Testing is flawed!!! Maybe some trainers were using more lasix. Maybe some trainers fed sweet feed with molasses in the morning on race day. Maybe some trainers withdraw water 4 hours before a race. Maybe some trainers gallop on race day instead of walk. There are too many unanswered questions and variables. You like many simply refuse to believe Doug and others are innocent!!!!

        • Canarse

          Using your standards there is no way to ever find a trainer guilty of anything.  The reason public opinion is important is that the public is who attends races and bets on horses.  If O’Neill is so innocent he had better figure out why he keeps getting all these flawed tests and guys like Motion never have a problem.  

      • Stanley inman

        Good question.
        If I was getting positives and believed the test were flawed,
        (And no one else in the barn was getting positives)
        I would ask my neighbors there what they do differently and then adjust my routine
        Obviously to keep from getting future positives, fines, suspensions, a reputation that would hurt my business.
        Sooooo, we can assume he is purposely assuming
        a strategy, that he believes he benefits from.
        Instead of doing what the rest of us do-
        Play by the rules.

        • Stanley inman

          We’re not hatred
          nor our we stupid,
          We just don’t respect cheating.

          • Stanley inman

            Should read haters,
            (But now that I think about it,
            We do hate CHEATERS.)
            Doug cheats-just look at his record.

          • Frank L.

            Stanley —

            You said you have trained horses in the
            past, where at the local merry-go-round? How long were/have you been
            on the track? If, IF, I repeat, “IF”, you had been on the track,
            at least 10 years, you should have heard of the utilization of Baking
            Soda for toxicity, antacid, digestion, AND, mainly to prevent/control
            ulcers!!

      • Battlerbilly

        He’s just been unlucky 4 times….(and 50 times during the grace period, and 10,000 times before they started tested.) …unlucky and the tests are flawed.

    • Victoria Jensen

      James, I must admit I’ve been following & admire your loyalty to Team O’Neil.  Many times I’ve wanted to post & just tell you to ‘stop’, – you’re fighting an impossible battle w/ the haters.  Of course, I have no knowledge of what has really gone on w/ the alleged TCO violations, nor have I ever met DO.  Does it really bother me about the Berna Dette thing – You bet it does.  It also really bothers me that posters are rooting against IHA, just because of DO.  IHA is an amazing horse who probably ran the most exciting Preakness that I can remember. I was on my feet screaming at the TV for him to ‘get up, get up’ coming down the stretch.  And until the KD, I was a solid Union Rags fan.  I’m not exactly a Rick Dutrow fan but I sure rooted for Big Brown in his bid for the TC – I root for these wonderful super stars.  Godspeed IHA, safe trip & run your heart out, as usual. Kick butt & make us proud.  James, when you next see IHA, give him a pat for me.   If I ever get to Ca. tell DO I’ll take him up on his open door policy at his shedrow.  Go IHA.

      • Noelle

        Victoria – well said.  I don’t know O’Neill either, but too many people who say “it’s all about the horse” seem to want this particular horse to lose just to punish O’Neill.  IHA is a really good horse and he’s been well managed up to now. Whatever O’Neill may have done with other horses, he’s acknowledged making mistakes and after this firestorm of bad publicity I wouldn’t be surprised if he behaves a lot better in future. 

        Regardless of O’Neill’s reformation or lack thereof, it is IHA who will take his place in history if he wins the Belmont.  Few people could tell you who trained Count Fleet or Whirlaway or the other TC winners – but we all know the names of the horses.  No one should begrudge this horse his success.

      • Charlie Davis

        I haven’t heard anyone rooting against IHA because of O’Neill.  I’m certainly not.  I also remember a lot of people rooting for BB despite not liking Dutrow very much.

        I’m rooting for the triple crown, betting against it, and hoping that O’Neill stops cheating.

        • Don Reed

          Victoria, CD has said it perfectly.  It would be unimaginable to root against Mario Gutierrez (whose class-act ascent to fame has been inspirational and flawless) and I’ll Have Another because of the trainer/owner connections.

      • Ray Manley

        The most exciting Preakness ever run and possibly the most incredible race ever run belongs to Preakness winner Afleet Alex.  Check it out on YouTube.

        • Canarse

          Agreed.  Talk about a horse that should have won the Triple Crown.  

        • Don Reed

          True!  Say, there was a great artist called “Man Ray.”  Or maybe it was “Ray Ban.”  “Uncle Ben”?  Can’rt remember.  Lost.  See what constant posting does to our brains?!     

      • May Flower

         Her name was BURNA DETTE – RIP

      • Frank L.

        Victoria —

        Rooting for, or against, a
        horse does NOT affect the result. If it did, all the people who
        continually lose, which is about 90% of the people who comment here,
        would be BIG winners. You, Victoria, and additionally, James
        Jimenez, should understand the term “losers”, by reading the
        negativity on this site. More importantly — negativity without
        understanding!! Please don’t feel bad about the negativity effecting
        the horse — It won’t!!

    • Frank L.

      Now, lynching can be understood!!

  • James D. Jimenez

    Well there you have it haters, looks like you get to hang an innocent man. Forty five day ban and a $15,000 fine plus $250,000 in attorneys fees and you get to hang Doug after it’s proven he did nothing wrong. I have been telling you since day one that the testing procedures are flawed. Doug has sworn that he was innocent. You never gave him what all citizens are guaranteed “Innocent until proven guilty.” And now he has proven himself. Is this your America? It’s not mine!

  • stillriledup

    Its not?

  • Not a Knucklehead

    Most of you who post on this forum are knuckleheads who know zero about this specific subject. How do you offer such strong opinions without fully understanding the science and details?

    • JC

       Feel free to enlighten us, then. 

  • Not a Knucklehead

    Most of you who post on this forum are knuckleheads who know zero about this specific subject. How do you offer such strong opinions without fully understanding the science and details?

  • James D. Jimenez

    Innocent man looses! These test are FLAWED!!!!! 

  • James D. Jimenez

    Test are FLAWED!!!!!

  • James D. Jimenez

    First 35 is the limit not 37! How about the fact that it’s been proven that horses have tested higher than 35 while in 24 guarded stalls with cameras and tested for 3 days!

  • Tinky

    Congratulations. Your ridiculous several day PR assault culminates in a single paragraph that includes both inaccuracies and silly assertions.

    1) “…after it’s proven he did nothing wrong.” This was just one of his four positives, so the notion that he is innocent is nonsense.

    2) “I have been telling you since day one that the testing procedures are flawed.” Then why aren’t false positives endemic? Why are the vast majority of the positives concentrated amongst a few trainers?

    3) “Doug has sworn that he was innocent.” Gee, I guess he must be innocent then.

    4) “You never gave him what all citizens are guaranteed…” No one is guaranteed innocence in the court of public opinion. Presumably you believe that O.J. was innocent as well.

    5) Given the amount of time you are spending on this forum, if IHA loses the Belmont, we can all reasonably assume that it was due to a lack of attention to his shoes.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Trainer insurer rule is like you loaning someone your car, they get drunk and kill someone and it’s your fault!

    • Charlie Davis

      No it’s not.  It’s just like the laws in any other industry.  Ignorance is not a valid defense.  The boss is always liable for what his employees do, that’s part of being the boss.  Take of the blinders and respond to items 1 and 2 on Tinky’s list.  

      1) “…after it’s proven he did nothing wrong.” This was just one of his four positives, so the notion that he is innocent is nonsense.2) “I have been telling you since day one that the testing procedures are flawed.” Then why aren’t false positives endemic? Why are the vast majority of the positives concentrated amongst a few trainers?

      • James D. Jimenez

        Testing is flawed!!! Maybe some trainers were using more lasix. Maybe some trainers fed sweet feed with molasses in the morning on race day. Maybe some trainers withdraw water 4 hours before a race. Maybe some trainers gallop on race day instead of walk. There are too many unanswered questions and variables. You like many simply refuse to believe Doug and others are innocent!!!!

        • Charlie Davis

          Maybe some trainers don’t cheat.  
          He’s been tried and convicted for various drug offenses over 10 times, in at least 3 jurisdictions that I know of off the top of my head.  

          That’s not too much molasses.

          • James D. Jimenez

            Read the ruling many are simply high bute that even your Hall of Fame trainers get. Read the rulings!!!!

          • RayPaulick

             Here is my list of Doug O’Neill medication violations since 2005: 2/5/2005, Bay Meadows, Jake Skate, Dantrolene; 3/10/2005, Santa Anita, Spirited, Dexamethasone; 5/27/2006, Hollywod Park, Wisdom Cat, TCO2; 1/17/2008, Santa Anita, Chicks Rule, TCO2; 12/27/2008, Santa Anita, Esperamos, Flunixin; 8/20/2009, Del Mar, Bench the Judge, Bute overage; 2/12/10, Gulfstream Park, Pinkarella, Testosterone; 4/3/2010, Hawthorne, Stephen’s Got Hope, TCO2; 4/30/2010, Churchill Downs, Enriched, Omeprazole Sulfide; 8/25/2010, Del Mar, Argenta, TCO2; 2/5/2011, Santa Anita, Separate Forest, Etodolac; 9/17/2011, Fairplex Park, Naturaliste, Hydroxydantrolene.

            Some are still in the process of being appealed.

          • SteveG

            Clean as a whistle. 

          • Don Reed

            Beyond reproach.

          • Battlerbilly

            not to mention all the positves during the tco2 grace period, that he got a pass on.

        • Tinky

          Right James, he’s innocent. Never mind that when he was forced to train out of a detention barn, his winning percentage plummeted and his horses no longer came back positive.

          Just a coincidence, you would argue.

          • James D. Jimenez

            Doug’s winning percentage like almost all top trainers vary greatly throughout the year. Look at Peter Miller having a great meet right now and winning at 26%, and what about Baffert currently winning at an incredible 46%. Are they cheating???

          • Charlie Davis

            Sorry, duplicate post.

          • Don Reed

            Don’t worry about it.  DISQUS has been double-posting messages all week.  Ray should be very concerned that this haywire system is double-counting the “hits” received by the Paulick Report.

        • JC

           The problem is, where there’s smoke, there’s usually fire.  I’d like for you to explain Burna Dette, but it isn’t going to bring her back.  And, of course, we all know that it’s impossible to prove anyone KNEW something, unless it was something they put in writing.  And of course, that’s not the case, so the “I didn’t know” defense is easy to execute.  YUCK…and God rest that horse.  I wish instead that she had had a shot at healing and retraining/rehoming.  It seems that was taken from her.  At least I can look in the mirror and know I didn’t do it. 

  • James D. Jimenez

    Trainer insurer rule is like you loaning someone your car, they get drunk and kill someone and it’s your fault!

  • dh

    This is what happens when cheaters are left unchecked. When they finally reach national prominence they embarrass the game even more (Mullins, Pletcher, Gill, etc.). Next year it will be Jamie Ness, and so on and so on. These trainers that cheat, and there are 4 or 5 at every track, are ruining a great game at all levels of racing, top and bottom tracks.

  • dh

    This is what happens when cheaters are left unchecked. When they finally reach national prominence they embarrass the game even more (Mullins, Pletcher, Gill, etc.). Next year it will be Jamie Ness, and so on and so on. These trainers that cheat, and there are 4 or 5 at every track, are ruining a great game at all levels of racing, top and bottom tracks.

  • James D. Jimenez

    WOW, Tinky you are petty!!!!
    I, like Doug, have been saying that he has never milkshaked a horse from day one! I, like Doug, have been saying that testing is flawed!Doug swore he was innocent because he always knew he was!The court of “negative” public opinion is made up of people like you who want to tear down anyone that reaches the top because you have no life!I’m in California taking care of horses here so don’t worry about IHA. Oh wait, now you want to tear me down because you can no longer say Doug milkshakes horses. YOU ARE PETTY!

  • Swiss305

    Regardless of the truth or error of the “milkshake” accusation, I keep going back to the fact that O’Neill has a record of twice as many breakdowns as the other trainers and I recall one particularly questionable breakdown of a suddenly dropped down claimer at Los Alamitos:  Berna Dette.  That incident drew an investigation too.

  • Swiss305

    Regardless of the truth or error of the “milkshake” accusation, I keep going back to the fact that O’Neill has a record of twice as many breakdowns as the other trainers and I recall one particularly questionable breakdown of a suddenly dropped down claimer at Los Alamitos:  Berna Dette.  That incident drew an investigation too.

  • Darydar

    Don’t you find that it is interesting that the CHRB had almost 2 years to come to this decision.  Why didn’t they do this in a timely manner or was David Israel too busy trying to save his backside from the investagation of the LA Coliseum.  We have some very questionable people on the CHRB Board.

  • Darydar

    Don’t you find that it is interesting that the CHRB had almost 2 years to come to this decision.  Why didn’t they do this in a timely manner or was David Israel too busy trying to save his backside from the investagation of the LA Coliseum.  We have some very questionable people on the CHRB Board.

  • Cass

     So why exactly does he have so many horses with elevated TCO2 levels?  Testing procedures seem to be flawed only with him.   Strange

  • Charlie Davis

    No it’s not.  It’s just like the laws in any other industry.  Ignorance is not a valid defense.  The boss is always liable for what his employees do, that’s part of being the boss.  Take of the blinders and respond to items 1 and 2 on Tinky’s list.  

    1) “…after it’s proven he did nothing wrong.” This was just one of his four positives, so the notion that he is innocent is nonsense.2) “I have been telling you since day one that the testing procedures are flawed.” Then why aren’t false positives endemic? Why are the vast majority of the positives concentrated amongst a few trainers?

  • Cass

     Then almost every trainer should have an elevated level of tcow.  But that is not the case is it?

  • Tinky

    James can’t even get his facts straight…

    “The California Horse Racing Board has filed a complaint against trainer Doug O’Neill for an alleged total carbon dioxide (TCO2) violation—the fourth time since 2006 a horse in his care tested above the threshold level for what is commonly called “milkshaking.” The latest allegation involves Argenta, who finished eighth in the sixth race at Del Mar on Aug. 25. The CHRB complaint did not specify the level at which Argenta tested, only that the daughter of Mineshaft exceeded the regulatory threshold of 37.00mml/l for TCO2.”

    That was 37, not 35 James.

  • James D. Jimenez

    This is Tinky’s post to me

    It doesn’t matter if you are telling the truth, because the fact remains that NO trainer would cheat in front of you.In other words, if O’Neill was/is cheating, you WOULD NOT know about it.To him and many people here telling the truth doesn’t matter. The reason I knew Doug wasn’t cheating is and always was very simple. HE WASN’T!!!!!Many tore him down when he said he wasn’t milkshaking his horses. Many are still tearing him down now that it has been proven he didn’t milkshake his horses. You want to be in town square and watch an innocent man hang. You are sick!

  • HC

    Look folks, as an owner that has never had a positive and have many owner/trainer friends and acquaintences that have not had a positive, all racing on the CA circuit, if you race your horse clean you WILL NOT test positive. When there are numerous violations, it’s plain and simple, some trainers push the envelope either playing it too close with drug withdrawal times or simply using everything in their pharma toolbox they think may give their horse an edge. The only flaws in the testing is the inability to detect performance enhancing drugs that have been masked by other substances. What is even worse is the much higher than normal injury/breakdown rate for the trainer in question. Too bad those unfortunate horses that have met their doom in the most ghastly fashion under the care of Mr. charming trainer do not have a voice.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Testing is flawed!!! Maybe some trainers were using more lasix. Maybe some trainers fed sweet feed with molasses in the morning on race day. Maybe some trainers withdraw water 4 hours before a race. Maybe some trainers gallop on race day instead of walk. There are too many unanswered questions and variables. You like many simply refuse to believe Doug and others are innocent!!!!

  • James D. Jimenez

    Testing is flawed!!! Maybe some trainers were using more lasix. Maybe some trainers fed sweet feed with molasses in the morning on race day. Maybe some trainers withdraw water 4 hours before a race. Maybe some trainers gallop on race day instead of walk. There are too many unanswered questions and variables. You like many simply refuse to believe Doug and others are innocent!!!!

  • Charlie Davis

    Maybe some trainers don’t cheat.  
    He’s been tried and convicted for various drug offenses over 10 times, in at least 3 jurisdictions that I know of off the top of my head.  

    That’s not too much molasses.

  • roger

    So Ray….looked up the Chart on the race in question…finished 8th out of 11 or 12 horses. Kerwin John had the mount at 20.50 odds.

    My question…is it common practice to TEST horses that finish 8th at 20-1 odds?

    • RayPaulick

       Different rules in different jurisdictions. Oftentimes winner, favorite (if not winner), randomly selected horse, or horse that had heavy odds changes or drew suspicion.

      • roger

        thanks….guess it fell in the random category….anyone know how the “random” selection works….just curious.

        • dh

          roger, its called a “special”. Supposedly, two horses a night are randomly selected, by the stewards, and regardless where they finish they have to go to the test barn. As Ray points out, it varies by jurisdiction and I myself have often wonder how “random” it really is, seems like when my horses start doing well I get chosen more frequently.

    • James D. Jimenez

      This is a fantastic point especially when a 4 to 5 shot ran third. Random is one thing targeted is another!

      • Charlie Davis

        So now the argument is that they shouldn’t have ever tested the horse to begin with!

        • James D. Jimenez

          Charlie,
          I never said that. If you ask 1000 horsemen what horse gets tested in that scenario I believe 950 or more say the 4 to 5 shot. Random is one thing, that sure didn’t look random from the get go!

          • Charlie Davis

            I don’t care if it’s random or not, and you shouldn’t either.  His horse was tested, didn’t pass, he’s guilty.  End of story.

    • Concerned

      Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I read somewhere they drew the test sample pre-race.  I am not certian, though.

      • Ray Paulick

        You are absolutely correct. My mistake. Not sure how many horses per race are tested pre-race but TCO2 test samples drawn before race.

  • roger

    So Ray….looked up the Chart on the race in question…finished 8th out of 11 or 12 horses. Kerwin John had the mount at 20.50 odds.

    My question…is it common practice to TEST horses that finish 8th at 20-1 odds?

  • Tinky

    Right James, he’s innocent. Never mind that when he was forced to train out of a detention barn, his winning percentage plummeted and his horses no longer came back positive.

    Just a coincidence, you would argue.

  • Stanley inman

    How many beers does Doug do every night to think it’s a good idea to let Someone on his team Come and make these statements.
    It gets better everyday.
    (I heard the kardashians are tuned in-checkin out that southern cal competition.)

    • James D. Jimenez

      You chose the wrong dog in this fight and can’t admit you were wrong, very very sad!

      • Don Reed

        Given the volume, I’m getting the impression that “James D. Jiminez” is actually the shared by-line of a consortium of professional posters.

        Either that, or a team of Chinese military hackers who, unable to crack the Pentagon defenses, have zeroed in on this site in search of something to do. 

        • Frank L.

          Don —

          At least James has something to say,
          not just blabbering as YOU and Tinky do!!

          • Don Reed

            Rival political gangs in Berlin in the 1930s would battle in the streets.  When the cops showed up, both gangs would stop fighting each other, unite, and attack the cops. 

            James, you’re next.  Hop in.  I’m over here.  Sling away.

            FL: We return to the subject of your radiantly inspirational insights & talents. 

            It is good that you can take a break from your endless parry-and-thrusts with James and devote your attention to other essential details.  You are indeed an organized man, an example of single-minded efficiency, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

            If, in 2015, in his despair, Mr. Cuomo is close to losing his sanity after running though 9 successive political hacks in three years, we, united, pray that you come to his rescue and graciously accept his offer of the appointment as the 10th NYRA CEO.

            (Also, the new job will keep you busy, and off the Paulick Report for a while.  Sign up for two tours, Frank.  We need the rest.  Sending you on a fool’s errand will work wonders for us all.)

        • Anne

          Don, can you define your use of the word ‘professional’ in the above post? He is prolific and loyal to be sure. However, there have to be  a bunch of horses running around CA in need of a trim and reset!

          • Don Reed

            Anne, don’t you love the Disqus Double-Posting system?  Good thing in this case that the system is malfunctioning, because finding your other post (“reply”) would be impossible (buried in “139″ divided by two comments).

            Disqus is now working on the new & exciting Churchill Downs 2013 Kentucky Derby gate system, which will allow forty horses to be entered in the race.

            As far as our friend Jimenez Cricket goes, if he were this prolific at his actual job, he could service every single horse on the southern California circuit and put the other 2,000 grooms on the unemployment lines.

            (Then the President’s re-election campaign would REALLY be in trouble!)

          • Anne

            Don – Since CD gets $25K to enter and $25K to start, I suspect they would be more than happy to endorse the Disqus system and allow double the amount of horses running in the May Stampede.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Read the ruling many are simply high bute that even your Hall of Fame trainers get. Read the rulings!!!!

  • Stanley inman

    How many beers does Doug do every night to think it’s a good idea to let Someone on his team Come and make these statements.
    It gets better everyday.
    (I heard the kardashians are tuned in-checkin out that southern cal competition.)

  • RayPaulick

     Different rules in different jurisdictions. Oftentimes winner, favorite (if not winner), randomly selected horse, or horse that had heavy odds changes or drew suspicion.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Doug’s winning percentage like almost all top trainers vary greatly throughout the year. Look at Peter Miller having a great meet right now and winning at 26%, and what about Baffert currently winning at an incredible 46%. Are they cheating???

  • RayPaulick

    Interesting in my reading about bicarbonate loading/milkshakes, one common theme is that milkshakes are not believed effective in Thoroughbred races less than a mile. They are believed most effective in long-distance races and with standardbreds. For what it’s worth, Argenta’s race was 6 1/2 furlongs.

    • Tinky

      Ray –

      It’s fairly straightforward. Both blood-doping (e.g. EPO) and milkshaking delay fatigue, and that is far more advantageous in longer races (i.e. more serious tests of stamina).

      That is why professional cyclists and marathon runners benefit from blood doping, while sprinters are far more likely to use steroids and the like.

      • dh

        but EPO delays fatigue by forcing the spleen to pump out more red blood cells, thus more oxygenated blood, whereas a milkshake delays fatigue by preventing lactic acid build up which tires the muscles. One would be more aerobic the other more anaerobic. Plus the side effects of EPO are horrific, usually anemia as the horse no longer can produce red blood cells without the EPO drug, with a milkshake the horse probably gets a bad sugar buzz headache. I’ve claimed horses off trainers, not knowing at the time, they were using EPO and after a few weeks the horse looks like Chia-pet, its not a pretty site. EPO is killing horses, and the game.

        • Tinky

          I don’t disagree that EPO (and its many relatives) is far worse for horses than milkshakes. It is also true that they utilize different mechanisms.

          Unfortunately, the chemists who infect this game continue to refine potent drugs so that they are ahead of the testing curve, and (at times) have less deleterious near-term side effects than EPO.

          • dh

            I would suggest you buy a horse that was on EPO and buy a horse that was milkshaked. Do not give the first horse any EPO and do not give the second horse a milkshake. In six weeks write me back and tell me what each horse looks like. I’ll give you hint, the one on EPO “withdraw” will look a lot worse. I’m not fighting you, I’m pointing out facts based on experience.

          • Tinky

            What part of “I don’t disagree that EPO (and its many relatives) is far worse for horses than milkshakes.” did you not understand?

          • dh

            I see my mistake, sorry, misread your comment, sometimes reading these comments by people like James Jiminez makes my sight go blurry.

        • JC

           I think it’s horrible.  And it would stand to reason that elevated TCO2 levels would drive oxygen levels down, and that’s not real good for tissue health and possible end-organ damage, like a slow form of suffocation.  Cyanide works like that, people; it just works FASTER; as does, I believe, carbon monoxide, replacing your oxygen in heme.  Nice…hurt the horse long-term for a short-term win and instant gratification. 

          First time I’ve ever met a not-guilty person who had to pay a fine and be suspended.  In layman’s terms, that means they think he’s guilty but they don’t necessarily have absolute proof, other than the elevated TCO2 level.  Works for me… 

        • Frank L.

          Dh —

          How did you know that the trainers were
          using EPO on the horses you claimed? That’s total BULL!!!

          Once again, subjective opinion!! What
          did your trainer have to say about the situation — PLEASE don’t
          tell me that YOU were the trainer!!

        • May Flower

           dh, did you report those abusive, morally bankrupt owners and trainers to the FBI since racing is not interested in using the best anti-doping measures available today?

  • RayPaulick

    Interesting in my reading about bicarbonate loading/milkshakes, one common theme is that milkshakes are not believed effective in Thoroughbred races less than a mile. They are believed most effective in long-distance races and with standardbreds. For what it’s worth, Argenta’s race was 6 1/2 furlongs.

  • James D. Jimenez

    You are correct it is now 37, my error. This number is not uniform state to state or country to country.

  • Charlie Davis

    Sorry, duplicate post.

  • roger

    thanks….guess it fell in the random category….anyone know how the “random” selection works….just curious.

  • James D. Jimenez

    Or at least it hasn’t always been uniform, maybe they got their crap together and at least got the number uniform worldwide but I’d be surprised if that is the case.

  • James D. Jimenez

    You chose the wrong dog in this fight and can’t admit you were wrong, very very sad!

  • James D. Jimenez

    This is a fantastic point especially when a 4 to 5 shot ran third. Random is one thing targeted is another!

  • Charlie Davis

    So now the argument is that they shouldn’t have ever tested the horse to begin with!

  • RayPaulick

     Here is my list of Doug O’Neill medication violations since 2005: 2/5/2005, Bay Meadows, Jake Skate, Dantrolene; 3/10/2005, Santa Anita, Spirited, Dexamethasone; 5/27/2006, Hollywod Park, Wisdom Cat, TCO2; 1/17/2008, Santa Anita, Chicks Rule, TCO2; 12/27/2008, Santa Anita, Esperamos, Flunixin; 8/20/2009, Del Mar, Bench the Judge, Bute overage; 2/12/10, Gulfstream Park, Pinkarella, Testosterone; 4/3/2010, Hawthorne, Stephen’s Got Hope, TCO2; 4/30/2010, Churchill Downs, Enriched, Omeprazole Sulfide; 8/25/2010, Del Mar, Argenta, TCO2; 2/5/2011, Santa Anita, Separate Forest, Etodolac; 9/17/2011, Fairplex Park, Naturaliste, Hydroxydantrolene.

    Some are still in the process of being appealed.

  • RayPaulick

     Some states allow higher than 37 if horses are given furosemide. In Australia the cutoff is 35.0.

  • Concerned Observer

    James, Your arguments are simplistic at best. Obviously you like, trust and support O’neill. That does not make it right. It was obvious with his history of violations  that a derby win would bring too much scrutiny. Now it has. Just what we need, lots of excuses, denials and finger pointing. Why so much smoke if no fire?

    The ref said he stepped out of bounds…over and over and over.
    You say the ref needs glasses.  Why did so many others never step out of bounds with the same refs?

    Sounds familiar…kids can not read…the tests are flawed.

    We need real adult supervision in racing.

  • Tinky

    Ray –

    It’s fairly straightforward. Both blood-doping (e.g. EPO) and milkshaking delay fatigue, and that is far more advantageous in longer races (i.e. more serious tests of stamina).

    That is why professional cyclists and marathon runners benefit from blood doping, while sprinters are far more likely to use steroids and the like.

  • James D. Jimenez

    I’m leaving now. All along I have said that testing was flawed and that it would be proven that he never milkshaked a horse. It was proven by a whistle blower that certain trainers were targeted, just look at the facts. Argenta a 20 to 1 shot was “randomly” tested in a race where the 4 to 5 favorite ran third. It doesn’t matter if you like or don’t like Doug and the others that have been targeted. Just look at the FACTS with an open mind like the hearing officer did and any reasonable person would come to the same conclusion. This man had all the evidence, not the gossip, and ruled accordingly. You have a little evidence and all the gossip and are hanging an innocent man!

    • Tinky

      “I’m leaving now.”

      Promise?

      • James D. Jimenez

        HEARING OFFICER OPINION: HORSE NOT ‘MILKSHAKED’
        Hard to take isn’t Tinky!

        Just knew you or Stanley Inman would attack. 

        • Tinky

          When you began posting here, you asserted proudly that you always tell the truth. Now, you tell us you are leaving, and promptly pollute the forum again a few minutes later.

          How can we trust a word that you say?

          P.S. – O’ Neill was guilty, as high CO2 levels can reflect other forms of cheating (aside from milkshaking).

          • James D. Jimenez

            You are something else. I’m simply scrolling to make sure I addressed any question or post that was directed at me and you come over the top with that. Go ahead and get the last word you petty little person! I’m pretty sure almost everyone including your cronies see your true colors.

            Done scrolling, on to The Belmont with a man vindicated!

          • Charlie Davis

            If vindicated=guilty and punished with a 45 day ban and a 15K fine then yes, he was vindicated.  Best of luck in the Belmont.

          • Frank L.

            Tinky —

            You missed your calling — you would
            have made a great general in Hitler’s army!!

            Your opinions on subjective,WAKY,
            information. And you expect this site to believe that you have done
            something positive for racing — unlicensed?

            Someone told me, at one time, STUPID
            people continually do/say stupid things because they believe everyone
            else is as stupid as they are!! Tinky, you are the personification
            of that statement.

      • Gaited Filly

        You are an angry, bitter person whose purpose in life is stirring the pot of manure on horse racing sites. Any information your posts contain is completely overshadowed by your antagonistic, arrogant personality. If someone has a different opinion than yours you attack them personally. 
        You add nothing but strife and confusion of the issues.  If someone has an opinion different than yours, you attack them personally.

        I think it is possible to have a challenging discussion of a topic without personal attacks. Personal attacks are a way of manipulating a conversation and people. You don’t have to respond to what someone else said in a thoughtful way, with facts or a knowledgeable opinion. You distract and avoid the topic or issue with the personal attacks. The person you attack becomes angry and the discussion goes off the rails. You are a master at this. I think you get off on spreading your misery, making other people angry. Does that make you feel powerful Tinky?

        And yes this can be viewed as a personal attack but really I think it is actually some honest feedback about your behavior on this blog and others. You ALWAYS know more than anyone else but stir the pot with some caustic comment. I chose to comment on your tactics because you have run your mouth continually with your vitriol and I thought it was time someone called you out on your behavior. Especially since you are the self appointed judge of everyone else’s behavior and of course, horse racing.

        • Tinky

          “If someone has an opinion different than yours, you attack them personally.”

          Quite ironic that you would say that, given that I receive more ad hominem attacks than anyone on this site. 

          While it is quite true that I can be acerbic, I tend to reserve my truly harsh posts for those who I believe warrant something other than a cool, measured response.

          On recent threads, I became increasingly sharp with James because he is an apologist (and a poor one) for a cheating trainer, and I don’t have much patience for that.

          I also tend to be sharp when people say stupid things, such as Dr. Tom (above), or Frank L. (frequently).

          The vast majority of my posts are substantial, and I’m sorry that you have a difficult time separating the tone from the content.

          • Frank L.

            Tinky —

            It “STILL” hasn’t dawned on you,
            that things sound stupid to you because you do “NOT” understand
            what is being said. You have your tiny, win-nee, mind in a cesspool,
            and, refuse to pull it out — then you want to blame others for your
            own lack of understanding. Question:

            Do YOU understand the cartoons that you
            watch?

        • Anne

          Seriously? How kind of YOU to be judge and jury for these comments and call out Tinky. After all, this is a mighty kind post you’ve written here…

          • Frank L.

            Anne —

            With respect to Tinky, I think very
            kind, indeed!!

        • Frank L.

          Gaited Filly —

          Please understand, Tinky understands
          very little of what he spouts. He has “NO” actual race track
          “barn experience”, and only admits to be licensed as an owner, by
          the CHRB. An owner knows very little of race track protocol,
          generally!!

          He attacks James because he does NOT
          understand what James is saying. He seems to hate America, and the
          way we do things in the U.S. He is very UN-American. His own words
          convict him.

          A little more info for you:

          Back in 2010, Joe Drape, of the New
          York Times, had a chart he published showing the number of starts per
          race day medication violations for leading trainers — here is some
          interesting information for YOU:

          Bob Baffert……………….465
          starts per violation

          John Sadler ……………..478

          Bret Calhoun ……………525

          Kiarn McLaughlin …….710

          Doug O’Neil …………….807

          O’Neil had the best record of those
          listed — Why are not the others being investigated and smeared?
          Yes, this was 2010, But, can’t find more recent information with
          respect to these statistics!!

  • James D. Jimenez

    I’m leaving now. All along I have said that testing was flawed and that it would be proven that he never milkshaked a horse. It was proven by a whistle blower that certain trainers were targeted, just look at the facts. Argenta a 20 to 1 shot was “randomly” tested in a race where the 4 to 5 favorite ran third. It doesn’t matter if you like or don’t like Doug and the others that have been targeted. Just look at the FACTS with an open mind like the hearing officer did and any reasonable person would come to the same conclusion. This man had all the evidence, not the gossip, and ruled accordingly. You have a little evidence and all the gossip and are hanging an innocent man!

  • Tinky

    “I’m leaving now.”

    Promise?

  • James D. Jimenez

    HEARING OFFICER OPINION: HORSE NOT ‘MILKSHAKED’
    Hard to take isn’t Tinky!

    Just knew you or Stanley Inman would attack. 

  • Tinky

    When you began posting here, you asserted proudly that you always tell the truth. Now, you tell us you are leaving, and promptly pollute the forum again a few minutes later.

    How can we trust a word that you say?

    P.S. – O’ Neill was guilty, as high CO2 levels can reflect other forms of cheating (aside from milkshaking).

  • Victoria Jensen

    James, I must admit I’ve been following & admire your loyalty to Team O’Neil.  Many times I’ve wanted to post & just tell you to ‘stop’, – you’re fighting an impossible battle w/ the haters.  Of course, I have no knowledge of what has really gone on w/ the alleged TCO violations, nor have I ever met DO.  Does it really bother me about the Berna Dette thing – You bet it does.  It also really bothers me that posters are rooting against IHA, just because of DO.  IHA is an amazing horse who probably ran the most exciting Preakness that I can remember. I was on my feet screaming at the TV for him to ‘get up, get up’ coming down the stretch.  And until the KD, I was a solid Union Rags fan.  I’m not exactly a Rick Dutrow fan but I sure rooted for Big Brown in his bid for the TC – I root for these wonderful super stars.  Godspeed IHA, safe trip & run your heart out, as usual. Kick butt & make us proud.  James, when you next see IHA, give him a pat for me.   If I ever get to Ca. tell DO I’ll take him up on his open door policy at his shedrow.  Go IHA.

  • Canarse

    Using your standards there is no way to ever find a trainer guilty of anything.  The reason public opinion is important is that the public is who attends races and bets on horses.  If O’Neill is so innocent he had better figure out why he keeps getting all these flawed tests and guys like Motion never have a problem.  

  • Dr. Tom

    I am not a horse doctor but I am a people doctor and they are both mammals.  I know that there are so many metabolic variables from person to person that can result in changes in acidosis and alkalosis that there is no way I could assure what the ph and TCO2 level in any track star in high school would be at the time of the race.  It is true that the level of hydration and recent physical activity will have a great effect.  But also the baseline renal status of the runner.  Some have underlying renal and metabolic abnormalities that result in a change in acid base status that have nothing to do with meds or feeding!  I would hate to be a trainer in Ca and get fined for the baseline state of a horse!!

    • Tinky

      “…they are both mammals.” 

      Funniest post of the night! I even spit up some alfalfa…

    • Charlie Davis

      So we should just quit testing for illegal drugs because the tests aren’t fair.  This despite the fact that every professional sport out there tests for drugs.  Good plan doc.  

      • Frank L.

        Charlie —

        Not true. People sports do NOT test
        the same way horse racing tests. Example : Football!!!!

        • Charlie Davis

          I didn’t say they test the same way, I said they test.  If the testing isn’t fair then someone with knowledge of the equine system should come up with testing that works.  I would say that our testing is too lax if anything.  If it was as bad as you say, then we would have overages every day.  

          Like I said to Jimenez, TCO2 overages are not being caused by molasses.

          • Frank L.

            Charlie —

            You are obviously blowing smoke, not
            knowing what you are talking about. Yes, you have an opinion, BUT,
            an uninformed opinion is worst than any opinion at all!!

          • Don Reed

            My horses (the ones I bet on) are slow as molasses and none have ever been suspected of TCO2 overages.

            All this science stuff is great.  If anyone out there remembers the late, great and crazy Karpoe the Science Teacher, raise your hand!

    • Anne

      If it’s that random, wouldn’t sound logic lead you to believe then that all sorts of horses, in a random pattern coming from random barns, be testing at elevated levels?? Say coming from Shirreffs’ barn or Matz’s barn, etc, etc? Weird how it’s random and there are so many variables yet one poor guy keeps getting these horses with weird “underlying renal and metabolic abnormalities that result in a change in acid base status that have nothing to do with meds or feeding”! Let me guess…he trains for you?

  • Not a Peasant

    It’s called a peasant’s mentality. Tinky has it and so do the other success haters. Quite frankly, it’s the way they were raised. Until they reach some level of success in their professional life they will never understand how counterproductive their comments are to their fellow man.

  • Dr. Tom

    I am not a horse doctor but I am a people doctor and they are both mammals.  I know that there are so many metabolic variables from person to person that can result in changes in acidosis and alkalosis that there is no way I could assure what the ph and TCO2 level in any track star in high school would be at the time of the race.  It is true that the level of hydration and recent physical activity will have a great effect.  But also the baseline renal status of the runner.  Some have underlying renal and metabolic abnormalities that result in a change in acid base status that have nothing to do with meds or feeding!  I would hate to be a trainer in Ca and get fined for the baseline state of a horse!!

  • James D. Jimenez

    Charlie,
    I never said that. If you ask 1000 horsemen what horse gets tested in that scenario I believe 950 or more say the 4 to 5 shot. Random is one thing, that sure didn’t look random from the get go!

  • Gordon Calhoun

    wait…wait …wait…I am the first to flog and hang cheaters…HOWEVER…he was cleared!!! forget the other cases, its this case and this case alone.  It is people like dh and the rest with nothing but negative comments that are killing this sport.  Not Doug O’Neil.

    • Tinky

      45 day suspension; $15k fine

      “he was cleared!!!”

      You should be a legal analyst for Fox News.

      • Tammy37

        unless he has mickey and minnie for lawyers, there is no chance he gets 1 day of a suspension. the hearing officer, who works for the state, said the evidence demonstrated the horse was not milkshaked. further, there were no intentional acts on the part of oneill in connection with this incident. did i mention he works for the state. i feel bad for you tinky, you had a bad day. better get back to the burna dette incident that was also fully investigated and he was cleared, shoot, um, ok well he just sucks.

        • Anne

          Cleared of the Burna Dette incident? What?? He didn’t drop her in for $2500 at Los Al? Hey I’ll Have Another question for you: is it the milkshaking that’s illegal or the elevated TCO2 level? 

          Anybody who works with horses and treats them like they are guinea pigs (or worse) yeah just sucks.

      • Frank L.

        Tinky

        Why
        does the American way irritate you SO MUCH??

    • Charlie Davis

      45 day ban and 15K fine is not cleared, it’s guilty.

    • dh

      would that be cleared before the 15k fine and 45 day suspesion or after? If you read the article it said the “milkshake” did not cause the high TCo2 but it was still over the limit. It also said there are OTHER procedures and practices that can raise the TCO2 levels, one would have to assume Denny and Dougy googled those as well, and I don’t cheat, but I can tell you who does, just look on Equibase its easy to figure out, so don’t blame me for pointing out the obvious.

    • Frank L.

      Gordon —

      These are the very same people who
      stand by why our country fails. Soon it’s not going to matter what
      horse racing does, people are going to be to busy finding food to
      eat!!

  • Gordon Calhoun

    wait…wait …wait…I am the first to flog and hang cheaters…HOWEVER…he was cleared!!! forget the other cases, its this case and this case alone.  It is people like dh and the rest with nothing but negative comments that are killing this sport.  Not Doug O’Neil.

  • James D. Jimenez

    You are something else. I’m simply scrolling to make sure I addressed any question or post that was directed at me and you come over the top with that. Go ahead and get the last word you petty little person! I’m pretty sure almost everyone including your cronies see your true colors.

    Done scrolling, on to The Belmont with a man vindicated!

  • dh

    roger, its called a “special”. Supposedly, two horses a night are randomly selected, by the stewards, and regardless where they finish they have to go to the test barn. As Ray points out, it varies by jurisdiction and I myself have often wonder how “random” it really is, seems like when my horses start doing well I get chosen more frequently.

  • Concerned

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I read somewhere they drew the test sample pre-race.  I am not certian, though.

  • Tinky

    “…they are both mammals.” 

    Funniest post of the night! I even spit up some alfalfa…

  • Tinky

    Since you are “Not a Peasant”, the irony should be obvious to you that you ended a pure ad hominem attack with this:

    “…they will never understand how counterproductive their comments are to their fellow man.”

  • Stanley inman

    Good question.
    If I was getting positives and believed the test were flawed,
    (And no one else in the barn was getting positives)
    I would ask my neighbors there what they do differently and then adjust my routine
    Obviously to keep from getting future positives, fines, suspensions, a reputation that would hurt my business.
    Sooooo, we can assume he is purposely assuming
    a strategy, that he believes he benefits from.
    Instead of doing what the rest of us do-
    Play by the rules.

  • dh

    but EPO delays fatigue by forcing the spleen to pump out more red blood cells, thus more oxygenated blood, whereas a milkshake delays fatigue by preventing lactic acid build up which tires the muscles. One would be more aerobic the other more anaerobic. Plus the side effects of EPO are horrific, usually anemia as the horse no longer can produce red blood cells without the EPO drug, with a milkshake the horse probably gets a bad sugar buzz headache. I’ve claimed horses off trainers, not knowing at the time, they were using EPO and after a few weeks the horse looks like Chia-pet, its not a pretty site. EPO is killing horses, and the game.

  • Tinky

    45 day suspension; $15k fine

    “he was cleared!!!”

    You should be a legal analyst for Fox News.

  • Tinky

    I don’t disagree that EPO (and its many relatives) is far worse for horses than milkshakes. It is also true that they utilize different mechanisms.

    Unfortunately, the chemists who infect this game continue to refine potent drugs so that they are ahead of the testing curve, and (at times) have less deleterious near-term side effects than EPO.

  • Charlie Davis

    So we should just quit testing for illegal drugs because the tests aren’t fair.  This despite the fact that every professional sport out there tests for drugs.  Good plan doc.  

  • Stanley inman

    We’re not hatred
    nor our we stupid,
    We just don’t respect cheating.

  • Charlie Davis

    I don’t care if it’s random or not, and you shouldn’t either.  His horse was tested, didn’t pass, he’s guilty.  End of story.

  • Charlie Davis

    45 day ban and 15K fine is not cleared, it’s guilty.

  • Charlie Davis

    If vindicated=guilty and punished with a 45 day ban and a 15K fine then yes, he was vindicated.  Best of luck in the Belmont.

  • Stanley inman

    Should read haters,
    (But now that I think about it,
    We do hate CHEATERS.)
    Doug cheats-just look at his record.

  • Davidbaker57

    At least he’s never taken a horse in poor form, shipped it to a quarterhorse track, run it 4.5 furlongs for only a $2500 claiming tag in hopes someone would actually claim it and had it break down.  Oh…wait…..

  • Davidbaker57

    At least he’s never taken a horse in poor form, shipped it to a quarterhorse track, run it 4.5 furlongs for only a $2500 claiming tag in hopes someone would actually claim it and had it break down.  Oh…wait…..

  • Ray Paulick

    You are absolutely correct. My mistake. Not sure how many horses per race are tested pre-race but TCO2 test samples drawn before race.

  • dh

    would that be cleared before the 15k fine and 45 day suspesion or after? If you read the article it said the “milkshake” did not cause the high TCo2 but it was still over the limit. It also said there are OTHER procedures and practices that can raise the TCO2 levels, one would have to assume Denny and Dougy googled those as well, and I don’t cheat, but I can tell you who does, just look on Equibase its easy to figure out, so don’t blame me for pointing out the obvious.

  • dh

    I would suggest you buy a horse that was on EPO and buy a horse that was milkshaked. Do not give the first horse any EPO and do not give the second horse a milkshake. In six weeks write me back and tell me what each horse looks like. I’ll give you hint, the one on EPO “withdraw” will look a lot worse. I’m not fighting you, I’m pointing out facts based on experience.

  • Tinky

    What part of “I don’t disagree that EPO (and its many relatives) is far worse for horses than milkshakes.” did you not understand?

  • dh

    I see my mistake, sorry, misread your comment, sometimes reading these comments by people like James Jiminez makes my sight go blurry.

  • Gaited Filly

    You are an angry, bitter person whose purpose in life is stirring the pot of manure on horse racing sites. Any information your posts contain is completely overshadowed by your antagonistic, arrogant personality. If someone has a different opinion than yours you attack them personally. 
    You add nothing but strife and confusion of the issues.  If someone has an opinion different than yours, you attack them personally.

    I think it is possible to have a challenging discussion of a topic without personal attacks. Personal attacks are a way of manipulating a conversation and people. You don’t have to respond to what someone else said in a thoughtful way, with facts or a knowledgeable opinion. You distract and avoid the topic or issue with the personal attacks. The person you attack becomes angry and the discussion goes off the rails. You are a master at this. I think you get off on spreading your misery, making other people angry. Does that make you feel powerful Tinky?

    And yes can be viewed as a personal attack of you but really I think it is actually some honest feedback about your behavior on this blog and others. You ALWAYS know more than anyone else but stir the pot with some caustic comment. I chose to comment on your tactics because you have run your mouth continually with your vitriol and I thought it was time someone called you out on your behavior. Especially since you are the self appointed judge of everyone else’s behavior and of course, horse racing. 

  • SteveG

    Clean as a whistle. 

  • JC

     I think it’s horrible.  And it would stand to reason that elevated TCO2 levels would drive oxygen levels down, and that’s not real good for tissue health and possible end-organ damage, like a slow form of suffocation.  Cyanide works like that, people; it just works FASTER; as does, I believe, carbon monoxide, replacing your oxygen in heme.  Nice…hurt the horse long-term for a short-term win and instant gratification. 

    First time I’ve ever met a not-guilty person who had to pay a fine and be suspended.  In layman’s terms, that means they think he’s guilty but they don’t necessarily have absolute proof, other than the elevated TCO2 level.  Works for me… 

  • Tinky

    “If someone has an opinion different than yours, you attack them personally.”

    Quite ironic that you would say that, given that I receive more ad hominem attacks than anyone on this site. 

    While it is quite true that I can be acerbic, I tend to reserve my truly harsh posts for those who I believe warrant something other than a cool, measured response.

    On recent threads, I became increasingly sharp with James because he is an apologist (and a poor one) for a cheating trainer, and I don’t have much patience for that.

    I also tend to be sharp when people say stupid things, such as Dr. Tom (above), or Frank L. (frequently).

    The vast majority of my posts are substantial, and I’m sorry that you have a difficult time separating the tone from the content.

  • stillriledup

    Since the threshold is 37 MML, does anyone know if they have saved the results of ALL tests? Can they tell if a person is consistently in the mid 30s and just  barely ‘survives’ an overage?

    Because if you know that trainer A’s horses consistely test JUST barely below the cutoff, you might have some legit info that suggests that particular trainer was not just ‘unlucky’ with the one horse.

    I’m guessing that if a trainer does NOT go over the 37 MML, the test results remain hidden and never become public. Maybe we need ALL test results published. If a trainer has anywhere from 1MML to 36 MML and ‘passes’ i’d love to see those results.

    Wouldnt you?
     

  • stillriledup

    Since the threshold is 37 MML, does anyone know if they have saved the results of ALL tests? Can they tell if a person is consistently in the mid 30s and just  barely ‘survives’ an overage?

    Because if you know that trainer A’s horses consistely test JUST barely below the cutoff, you might have some legit info that suggests that particular trainer was not just ‘unlucky’ with the one horse.

    I’m guessing that if a trainer does NOT go over the 37 MML, the test results remain hidden and never become public. Maybe we need ALL test results published. If a trainer has anywhere from 1MML to 36 MML and ‘passes’ i’d love to see those results.

    Wouldnt you?
     

  • JC

     The problem is, where there’s smoke, there’s usually fire.  I’d like for you to explain Burna Dette, but it isn’t going to bring her back.  And, of course, we all know that it’s impossible to prove anyone KNEW something, unless it was something they put in writing.  And of course, that’s not the case, so the “I didn’t know” defense is easy to execute.  YUCK…and God rest that horse.  I wish instead that she had had a shot at healing and retraining/rehoming.  It seems that was taken from her.  At least I can look in the mirror and know I didn’t do it. 

  • JC

     Feel free to enlighten us, then. 

  • JC

     Thank you for saying all that. 

  • Battlerbilly

    He’s just been unlucky 4 times….(and 50 times during the grace period, and 10,000 times before they started tested.) …unlucky and the tests are flawed.

  • Battlerbilly

    not to mention all the positves during the tco2 grace period, that he got a pass on.

  • Tammy37

    unless he has mickey and minnie for lawyers, there is no chance he gets 1 day of a suspension. the hearing officer, who works for the state, said the evidence demonstrated the horse was not milkshaked. further, there were no intentional acts on the part of oneill in connection with this incident. did i mention he works for the state. i feel bad for you tinky, you had a bad day. better get back to the burna dette incident that was also fully investigated and he was cleared, shoot, um, ok well he just sucks.

  • CLEM CLEMSON

    There are many many ways to increase a horses TCO2 levels without “Milkshaking” but for the same effect of inhibiting lactic acid build up.  You don’t need to tube a horse anymore to get enough bicabonate into him to inhibit fatigue.  So – DO may not have been found guilty of “Milkshaking” but that doesn’t mean that he did not intentionally give the horse something that increased his TCO2 levels.  Just because the CHRB did not find milkshaking, does not mean that DO did not improperly give the horse some thing before the race that he should not have.  The whole Dennis Oneill denial is ridiculous.  So what you didn’t run the shake down a tube into his nostrils, and you wouldn’t know how to do it.  What is clear is that DO knows to administer something to horse that raises his TCO2 levels.  Thats all we need to know. Case closed.  CHRB found him in violation of the rules.  SUSPENDED!

  • CLEM CLEMSON

    There are many many ways to increase a horses TCO2 levels without “Milkshaking” but for the same effect of inhibiting lactic acid build up.  You don’t need to tube a horse anymore to get enough bicabonate into him to inhibit fatigue.  So – DO may not have been found guilty of “Milkshaking” but that doesn’t mean that he did not intentionally give the horse something that increased his TCO2 levels.  Just because the CHRB did not find milkshaking, does not mean that DO did not improperly give the horse some thing before the race that he should not have.  The whole Dennis Oneill denial is ridiculous.  So what you didn’t run the shake down a tube into his nostrils, and you wouldn’t know how to do it.  What is clear is that DO knows to administer something to horse that raises his TCO2 levels.  Thats all we need to know. Case closed.  CHRB found him in violation of the rules.  SUSPENDED!

  • Don Reed

    This is the 59th time that I’ve been told I “don’t get it.”  I’m beginning to suspect that I’m stupid.

  • Don Reed

    Given the volume, I’m getting the impression that “James D. Jiminez” is actually the shared by-line of a consortium of professional posters.

    Either that, or a team of Chinese military hackers who, unable to crack the Pentagon defenses, have zeroed in on this site in search of something to do. 

  • Don Reed

    Don’t worry about it.  DISQUS has been double-posting messages all week.  Ray should be very concerned that this haywire system is double-counting the “hits” received by the Paulick Report.

  • Don Reed

    Beyond reproach.

  • ttowntony

    It’s over folks….45 days suspension, and $15,000 for DO. Now let’s all move on from this, and wait for the Richard Dutrow ruling. Hopefully, the results will be much harsher!

  • ttowntony

    It’s over folks….45 days suspension, and $15,000 for DO. Now let’s all move on from this, and wait for the Richard Dutrow ruling. Hopefully, the results will be much harsher!

  • James Staples

    UNTILL THEY THROW JAIL TIME & LIFE TIME BANS IN THE MIX STFU!!!…GET BUSY???…

  • James Staples

    UNTILL THEY THROW JAIL TIME & LIFE TIME BANS IN THE MIX STFU!!!…GET BUSY???…

  • Greg Jones

    To the people that believe O’Neill is innocent of never cheating are either very naive or very stupid, or both.  Yes, all of his violations must be a witch hunt or bad testing, please, wake up…

    • ttowntony

       Yes Doug O’Neill is cheating, or trying to cheat. There’s also a lot of trainers out there just like him, check out http://www.thoroughbredrulings.com. Type in a trainers last name, and you’ll see what I mean.

    • Harold Copley

      This is a typical Greg Jones post.   All of the “likes” are from his jolly cult known as the FOB.

      • Greg Jones

        Harold, yawn….

        • Frank L.

          Hey Greg —

          Maybe that your problem, sleeping while
          you write? It’s obvious you live in fantasy world, at least, with
          respect, to horse racing!! WAKE UP when you post!!!!

      • Frank L.

        Harold —
        RIGHT ON!!!

  • Greg Jones

    To the people that believe O’Neill is innocent of never cheating are either very naive or very stupid, or both.  Yes, all of his violations must be a witch hunt or bad testing, please, wake up…

  • ttowntony

     Yes Doug O’Neill is cheating, or trying to cheat. There’s also a lot of trainers out there just like him, check out http://www.thoroughbredrulings.com. Type in a trainers last name, and you’ll see what I mean.

  • Anne

    Cleared of the Burna Dette incident? What?? He didn’t drop her in for $2500 at Los Al? Hey I’ll Have Another question for you: is it the milkshaking that’s illegal or the elevated TCO2 level? 

    Anybody who works with horses and treats them like they are guinea pigs (or worse) yeah just sucks.

  • Anne

    If it’s that random, wouldn’t sound logic lead you to believe then that all sorts of horses, in a random pattern coming from random barns, be testing at elevated levels?? Say coming from Shirreffs’ barn or Matz’s barn, etc, etc? Weird how it’s random and there are so many variables yet one poor guy keeps getting these horses with weird “underlying renal and metabolic abnormalities that result in a change in acid base status that have nothing to do with meds or feeding”! Let me guess…he trains for you?

  • Anne

    Seriously? How kind of YOU to be judge and jury for these comments and call out Tinky. After all, this is a mighty kind post you’ve written here…

  • TBDancer

    If you eat a lemon poppyseed muffin (like those from Costco–to die for) and then submit to a urine test, you will test positive for elevated levels of opiates. The science will be accurate, but the result doesn’t mean you’re an addict.

    I don’t know about “milkshaking” (like Dennis O’Neill, I had to Google it), and I am not a scientist, technician OR a veterinarian, but I agree with the posters regarding questions over why some barns have drug-test issues over and over and others, like Graham Motion’s horses, consistently test clean. SOMETHING, maybe something totally inadvertent, the “positive” barns are doing is creating the results, and it may be as simple as how some supplement combination given by the “positive” barn is metabolized in the horse’s system.

    I like Team O’Neill, having first noticed them when Merv Griffin was one of their owners and he seemed so happy to be part of a “team” where everyone was having such a good time. Mr. Reddam said the same thing about why he took HIS horses to Team O’Neill.

    I am rooting for IHA–like Victoria Jensen, I was standing up yelling at my television on Preakness Day. I think my entire neighborhood knew IHA won the race.

    The final outcome is yet to be determined (for both the drug testing AND the Triple Crown this year), but I want to keep positive for IHA and his “peeps,” and the journey to the Triple Crown.

  • TBDancer

    If you eat a lemon poppyseed muffin (like those from Costco–to die for) and then submit to a urine test, you will test positive for elevated levels of opiates. The science will be accurate, but the result doesn’t mean you’re an addict.

    I don’t know about “milkshaking” (like Dennis O’Neill, I had to Google it), and I am not a scientist, technician OR a veterinarian, but I agree with the posters regarding questions over why some barns have drug-test issues over and over and others, like Graham Motion’s horses, consistently test clean. SOMETHING, maybe something totally inadvertent, the “positive” barns are doing is creating the results, and it may be as simple as how some supplement combination given by the “positive” barn is metabolized in the horse’s system.

    I like Team O’Neill, having first noticed them when Merv Griffin was one of their owners and he seemed so happy to be part of a “team” where everyone was having such a good time. Mr. Reddam said the same thing about why he took HIS horses to Team O’Neill.

    I am rooting for IHA–like Victoria Jensen, I was standing up yelling at my television on Preakness Day. I think my entire neighborhood knew IHA won the race.

    The final outcome is yet to be determined (for both the drug testing AND the Triple Crown this year), but I want to keep positive for IHA and his “peeps,” and the journey to the Triple Crown.

  • JB56

    Trainers cheating, Jockeys cheating, Owners cheating, Horseplayers cheating, Track Administrators cheating……this sport we all know, love and couldn’t live without is going to go “bye-bye” if we don’t get it together soon people.

    • Don Reed

      Psst!  Say pal, wanna buy the answers to the bar exam?  You’ll clean up, these guys all need lawyers.

    • Frank L.

      JB —
      It’s the same in all sports — all sports are not micro managed as horse racing!!  If they were, you’d have NO sports!!

      • Jbernath

        Frank…..its the same everywhere – sports, business, life……everyone wants to cheat – for the sake of the almighty buck!

  • JB56

    Trainers cheating, Jockeys cheating, Owners cheating, Horseplayers cheating, Track Administrators cheating……this sport we all know, love and couldn’t live without is going to go “bye-bye” if we don’t get it together soon people.

  • Damon Runyon

    According to the AP story on the front page of today’s Huffington Post, Argenta was co-owned by Mark Verge, the new CEO of Santa Anita. What does he say?

  • Damon Runyon

    According to the AP story on the front page of today’s Huffington Post, Argenta was co-owned by Mark Verge, the new CEO of Santa Anita. What does he say?

  • James D. Jimenez

    I have been posting on Paulick for a very long time. When I first started I used a pen name and posted thoughts or beliefs on any article that I thought was interesting. I had many interesting and constructive conversations with many, if not all of you including the posters that have attacked me recently. I changed and started posting using my real name quite a while ago because I felt that some people said things behind a pen name that they would never say if people knew who they were and I didn’t want to fall into that category. When it came to posting about Doug’s comments about having never milkshaked a horse I simply stated facts about having never seen him or anyone else in the barn ever tube a horse. I’ve shod horses for Doug for 18 years and I respect his abilities as a horseman but I do not think he even has the ability to tube a horse safely as this is something that even many vets no longer care to do, and as I stated before it can be dangerous and horses have even died from it being done improperly. I didn’t start posting about this milkshaking garbage to defend Doug or anyone else. I simply believe that we have something here that reacts differently on horses and until proven tests are available to drag someones name through the mud and ruin their reputation is ridiculous. It’s obvious that the hearing officer who had ALL the facts found that Doug was telling the truth. I was around when Roger Stein was ruined by a cocaine positive and saw what happened to his career after that ordeal even thought he proved his innocence.  Having grown up with a father that was a trainer and being in this sport since the 1960′s I believe the best days may be behind us. I am not a gambler so that part of this industry has zero interest for me. I love animals and especially horses and have tried my best to do everything to become better at what I do to help them. We are at a time here with a horse, owner and trainer that the public loves and seemingly wants to get behind and if we miss this small window of opportunity I fear it will take many years to get this chance again. I did my very best to answer all questions and post that were directed towards me and that’s why I was constantly scrolling up and down and had so many post. Sorry I cluttered up the board so much but I didn’t want to be accused of avoiding a question. To be totally clear I was never asked by anyone to post here and certainly never told to post anything. Everything I posted were my thoughts or beliefs and like you am entitled to my opinion. Good luck to all of you and especially I’ll Have Another and I said before: Wish what you will for Team O’Neill, we will wish you twice as much.  

  • Don Reed

    Psst!  Say pal, wanna buy the answers to the bar exam?  You’ll clean up, these guys all need lawyers.

  • Noelle

    Victoria – well said.  I don’t know O’Neill either, but too many people who say “it’s all about the horse” seem to want this particular horse to lose just to punish O’Neill.  IHA is a really good horse and he’s been well managed up to now. Whatever O’Neill may have done with other horses, he’s acknowledged making mistakes and after this firestorm of bad publicity I wouldn’t be surprised if he behaves a lot better in future. 

    Regardless of O’Neill’s reformation or lack thereof, it is IHA who will take his place in history if he wins the Belmont.  Few people could tell you who trained Count Fleet or Whirlaway or the other TC winners – but we all know the names of the horses.  No one should begrudge this horse his success.

  • Frank L.

    Charlie —

    Not true. People sports do NOT test
    the same way horse racing tests. Example : Football!!!!

  • http://xpressbet.com Herewego

    The normal range for a horse without lasix is 28 to 32 mml/l which goes up approximately 2.0 for a horse on lasix. There are many outliers to this normal range who are in the 34 to 35 mml range normal thus the need for a threshold testing level or 36 or 37 mml.

    Dr. Stanley at UC Davis, the California testing lab, has done extensive research on various alkalizing substances by themselves and in combination and to my knowledge has never been able to come up with any combination that will make a horse within the normal range test positive other than the administration of a “milkshake”. This begs the question of if Argenta wasn’t “milkshaked” as the hearing officer and the CHRB, how could she test positive. Unfortunately, Davis’s research has not been published and therefore likely wasn’t available to be admitted as evidence in this case.

    One possible although not probable explanation is that lasix was administered to Argenta closer than three hours prior to the horse racing. Dr. George Maylin lab director at Cornell which conducts all testing for NYRA and I believe New Jersey as well has told me on several occasions that TC02 readings for horses administered lasix within three hours of post time are widely inconsistent and inaccurate.

    I don’t know what happened in this particular case but I did want to point out some facts which aren’t widely known by the general public to let everyone know this is a very complex issue.

  • Clem Clemson

    Alot of good winning trainers manage not to have any positive tests at all.  This tells me that if a trainer is paying attention to his feed, and his lasix medication program, and he’s not getting to close to race day, then he can manage his barn without violating the medication rules – whether or not the tests are flawed.  Just because the tests capture levels created by collateral sources does not mean they are flawed. What it means is the Trainer  – who should know how to manage his stock – doesn’t care to avoid testing positive. DO is not the subject of witch hunt or unreasonable targeting.  He is a Trainer who gets caught with his pants down too often and is an embarassment to the sport on the biggest stage there is.  The CHRB did the right thing.  I only wish he had been banned for at least a year.  Then he would be incentivised to clean up his act.

    • Charlie Davis

      This was posted on twitter showing the chances of having a false positive.  You’re very right that it doesn’t take much to make sure your horse is within the thresholds.  At the current thresholds, 1 in 100,000 will be over the limit.  

  • Clem Clemson

    Alot of good winning trainers manage not to have any positive tests at all.  This tells me that if a trainer is paying attention to his feed, and his lasix medication program, and he’s not getting to close to race day, then he can manage his barn without violating the medication rules – whether or not the tests are flawed.  Just because the tests capture levels created by collateral sources does not mean they are flawed. What it means is the Trainer  – who should know how to manage his stock – doesn’t care to avoid testing positive. DO is not the subject of witch hunt or unreasonable targeting.  He is a Trainer who gets caught with his pants down too often and is an embarassment to the sport on the biggest stage there is.  The CHRB did the right thing.  I only wish he had been banned for at least a year.  Then he would be incentivised to clean up his act.

  • Charlie Davis

    I haven’t heard anyone rooting against IHA because of O’Neill.  I’m certainly not.  I also remember a lot of people rooting for BB despite not liking Dutrow very much.

    I’m rooting for the triple crown, betting against it, and hoping that O’Neill stops cheating.

  • Charlie Davis

    I didn’t say they test the same way, I said they test.  If the testing isn’t fair then someone with knowledge of the equine system should come up with testing that works.  I would say that our testing is too lax if anything.  If it was as bad as you say, then we would have overages every day.  

    Like I said to Jimenez, TCO2 overages are not being caused by molasses.

  • Charlie Davis

    This was posted on twitter showing the chances of having a false positive.  You’re very right that it doesn’t take much to make sure your horse is within the thresholds.  At the current thresholds, 1 in 100,000 will be over the limit.  

  • Ray Manley

    The most exciting Preakness ever run and possibly the most incredible race ever run belongs to Preakness winner Afleet Alex.  Check it out on YouTube.

  • Harold Copley

    This is a typical Greg Jones post.   All of the “likes” are from his jolly cult known as the FOB.

  • Greg Jones

    Harold, yawn….

  • Frank l.

    Did it ever occur to you, you are?

  • Frank L

    Again,
    James —

    You are addressing
    ignorance!!!! You do have to “UNDERSTAND” that, once and for
    all.

  • Frank L.

    Now, lynching can be understood!!

  • May Flower

     Her name was BURNA DETTE – RIP

  • Frank L.

    Tinky —

    Once again, inexperience shows
    through!! I’ve been using Baking Soda in my feed for at least 25
    years, as have many other trainers. It was never considered
    dishonest, “UNTILL”, the pacifying of the public became
    fashionable. I won’t tell YOU why, I wouldn’t want to disturb your
    “complete” ignorance.

    These type explanations are not
    conducive to this type forum, anyway. If you want to meet at the
    track someday, WE, you and I, can talk. Maybe, at Doug O’Neil s
    barn? Personally, I don’t think you, or anyone here, are interested
    in “understanding” the truth of the why’s and wherefore’s of
    operating a barn. It would burst you negative bubble!!

    Go back to your fishing ——— in
    your toilet!!

  • Frank L.

    Stanley —

    You said you have trained horses in the
    past, where at the local merry-go-round? How long were/have you been
    on the track? If, IF, I repeat, “IF”, you had been on the track,
    at least 10 years, you should have heard of the utilization of Baking
    Soda for toxicity, antacid, digestion, AND, mainly to prevent/control
    ulcers!!

  • Ridindirty3

    I think a confirmed positive….for whatever mitigating circumstance…… should require an immediate fine & THEN a guy gets a lawyer & appeals the suspension. If you don’t pay the fine…..you cannot run horses…..lose stall privileges ect, ect, ect. 

  • Ridindirty3

    I think a confirmed positive….for whatever mitigating circumstance…… should require an immediate fine & THEN a guy gets a lawyer & appeals the suspension. If you don’t pay the fine…..you cannot run horses…..lose stall privileges ect, ect, ect. 

  • Frank L.

    Victoria —

    Rooting for, or against, a
    horse does NOT affect the result. If it did, all the people who
    continually lose, which is about 90% of the people who comment here,
    would be BIG winners. You, Victoria, and additionally, James
    Jimenez, should understand the term “losers”, by reading the
    negativity on this site. More importantly — negativity without
    understanding!! Please don’t feel bad about the negativity effecting
    the horse — It won’t!!

  • Frank L.

    Don —

    At least James has something to say,
    not just blabbering as YOU and Tinky do!!

  • Anne

    Don, can you define your use of the word ‘professional’ in the above post? He is prolific and loyal to be sure. However, there have to be  a bunch of horses running around CA in need of a trim and reset!

  • Frank L.

    Roger —

    Why don’t “YOU”
    visit the backside once in a while, instead of blowing your money on
    the front side — maybe then you “WOULD” learn something!! You
    are NOT going to understand anything here, on this site!! Understand
    THAT!! Do all your pooh pooing, and stay in ignorance — “YOU”,
    as most, are not interested in learning or understanding horse racing
    — just ridiculing, and twisting (That’s why your kind are
    comfortable on this site)!!

  • Dantana

    Because of the Hearing Officer’s wording that the TCO2 overage is not result of milk shaking, we happily know that Doug O’Neil kids’ “eyeballs” are safe.

  • Dantana

    Because of the Hearing Officer’s wording that the TCO2 overage is not result of milk shaking, we happily know that Doug O’Neil kids’ “eyeballs” are safe.

  • Frank L.

    JB —
    It’s the same in all sports — all sports are not micro managed as horse racing!!  If they were, you’d have NO sports!!

  • Frank L.

    Harold —
    RIGHT ON!!!

  • Frank L.

    Hey Greg —

    Maybe that your problem, sleeping while
    you write? It’s obvious you live in fantasy world, at least, with
    respect, to horse racing!! WAKE UP when you post!!!!

  • Canarse

    Agreed.  Talk about a horse that should have won the Triple Crown.  

  • Frank L.

    Gordon —

    These are the very same people who
    stand by why our country fails. Soon it’s not going to matter what
    horse racing does, people are going to be to busy finding food to
    eat!!

  • Chasman

    Look…This is the 4th time over the past 10-yrs. that O’Neill has had a elevated TCO2 test result on a horse…So, if he is ‘not’ milkshaking them, either he knows what is occurring and does not care or he is as ’clueless’ as his brothers comment about looking up ‘milkshaking’ on Goggle….Having met Doug, as former owner of race horses training at Hollywood Park, Doug is not ‘clueless’ and neither is his brother….The New York Times will be roasting O’Neill and Reddam(CashCall) like there is no tomorrow….I’ll Have Another just saw his ‘karma’ chances with the Horse Racing Gods go by the waste side…3rd or 4th in the Belmont Stakes for I’ll Have Another…..    

    • Yovankajojo

      I have heard feeding baking soda would make the levels high

  • Chasman

    Look…This is the 4th time over the past 10-yrs. that O’Neill has had a elevated TCO2 test result on a horse…So, if he is ‘not’ milkshaking them, either he knows what is occurring and does not care or he is as ’clueless’ as his brothers comment about looking up ‘milkshaking’ on Goggle….Having met Doug, as former owner of race horses training at Hollywood Park, Doug is not ‘clueless’ and neither is his brother….The New York Times will be roasting O’Neill and Reddam(CashCall) like there is no tomorrow….I’ll Have Another just saw his ‘karma’ chances with the Horse Racing Gods go by the waste side…3rd or 4th in the Belmont Stakes for I’ll Have Another…..    

  • Frank L.

    Tinky

    Why
    does the American way irritate you SO MUCH??

  • Frank L.

    Charlie —

    You are obviously blowing smoke, not
    knowing what you are talking about. Yes, you have an opinion, BUT,
    an uninformed opinion is worst than any opinion at all!!

  • Don Reed

    Anne, don’t you love the Disqus Double-Posting system?  Good thing in this case that the system is malfunctioning, because finding your other post (“reply”) would be impossible (buried in “139″ divided by two comments).

    Disqus is now working on the new & exciting Churchill Downs 2013 Kentucky Derby gate system, which will allow forty horses to be entered in the race.

    As far as our friend Jimenez Cricket goes, if he were this prolific at his actual job, he could service every single horse on the southern California circuit and put the other 2,000 grooms on the unemployment lines.

    (Then the President’s re-election campaign would REALLY be in trouble!)

  • Don Reed

    True!  Say, there was a great artist called “Man Ray.”  Or maybe it was “Ray Ban.”  “Uncle Ben”?  Can’rt remember.  Lost.  See what constant posting does to our brains?!     

  • Don Reed

    My horses (the ones I bet on) are slow as molasses and none have ever been suspected of TCO2 overages.

    All this science stuff is great.  If anyone out there remembers the late, great and crazy Karpoe the Science Teacher, raise your hand!

  • Don Reed

    Victoria, CD has said it perfectly.  It would be unimaginable to root against Mario Gutierrez (whose class-act ascent to fame has been inspirational and flawless) and I’ll Have Another because of the trainer/owner connections.

  • Frank L.

    Gaited Filly —

    Please understand, Tinky understands
    very little of what he spouts. He has “NO” actual race track
    “barn experience”, and only admits to be licensed as an owner, by
    the CHRB. An owner knows very little of race track protocol,
    generally!!

    He attacks James because he does NOT
    understand what James is saying. He seems to hate America, and the
    way we do things in the U.S. He is very UN-American. His own words
    convict him.

    A little more info for you:

    Back in 2010, Joe Drape, of the New
    York Times, had a chart he published showing the number of starts per
    race day medication violations for leading trainers — here is some
    interesting information for YOU:

    Bob Baffert……………….465
    starts per violation

    John Sadler ……………..478

    Bret Calhoun ……………525

    Kiarn McLaughlin …….710

    Doug O’Neil …………….807

    O’Neil had the best record of those
    listed — Why are not the others being investigated and smeared?
    Yes, this was 2010, But, can’t find more recent information with
    respect to these statistics!!

  • Frank L.

    Anne —

    With respect to Tinky, I think very
    kind, indeed!!

  • Frank L.

    Tinky —

    It “STILL” hasn’t dawned on you,
    that things sound stupid to you because you do “NOT” understand
    what is being said. You have your tiny, win-nee, mind in a cesspool,
    and, refuse to pull it out — then you want to blame others for your
    own lack of understanding. Question:

    Do YOU understand the cartoons that you
    watch?

  • Frank L.

    Tinky —

    You missed your calling — you would
    have made a great general in Hitler’s army!!

    Your opinions on subjective,WAKY,
    information. And you expect this site to believe that you have done
    something positive for racing — unlicensed?

    Someone told me, at one time, STUPID
    people continually do/say stupid things because they believe everyone
    else is as stupid as they are!! Tinky, you are the personification
    of that statement.

  • Frank L.

    Dh —

    How did you know that the trainers were
    using EPO on the horses you claimed? That’s total BULL!!!

    Once again, subjective opinion!! What
    did your trainer have to say about the situation — PLEASE don’t
    tell me that YOU were the trainer!!

  • Yovankajojo

    I have heard feeding baking soda would make the levels high

  • Jbernath

    Frank…..its the same everywhere – sports, business, life……everyone wants to cheat – for the sake of the almighty buck!

  • Don Reed

    Rival political gangs in Berlin in the 1930s would battle in the streets.  When the cops showed up, both gangs would stop fighting each other, unite, and attack the cops. 

    James, you’re next.  Hop in.  I’m over here.  Sling away.

    FL: We return to the subject of your radiantly inspirational insights & talents. 

    It is good that you can take a break from your endless parry-and-thrusts with James and devote your attention to other essential details.  You are indeed an organized man, an example of single-minded efficiency, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

    If, in 2015, in his despair, Mr. Cuomo is close to losing his sanity after running though 9 successive political hacks in three years, we, united, pray that you come to his rescue and graciously accept his offer of the appointment as the 10th NYRA CEO.

    (Also, the new job will keep you busy, and off the Paulick Report for a while.  Sign up for two tours, Frank.  We need the rest.  Sending you on a fool’s errand will work wonders for us all.)

  • May Flower

     dh, did you report those abusive, morally bankrupt owners and trainers to the FBI since racing is not interested in using the best anti-doping measures available today?

  • Anne

    Don – Since CD gets $25K to enter and $25K to start, I suspect they would be more than happy to endorse the Disqus system and allow double the amount of horses running in the May Stampede.

Twitter