Kentucky Derby 2013 field to be determined by points system

by Press Release | 06.14.2012 | 6:57am

In one of the most essential developments in the storied history of the Kentucky Derby, Churchill Downs Racetrack will abandon the graded stakes earnings criteria it has used since 1986 to determine which 20 horses get into the starting gate for the 1 ¼-mile classic on the first Saturday in May and institute a point system to qualify for America’s Greatest Race.

Churchill Downs Incorporated (NASDAQ: CHDN) Chairman & CEO Bob Evans was to formally announce the significant change at 10 a.m. (all times Eastern) during the company’s annual meeting of shareholders at the racetrack’s Triple Crown Room on the fifth floor of the Jockey Club Suites. A news conference in the same location with track officials was to follow the meeting’s conclusion at 11 a.m. It will be streamed online at KentuckyDerby.com and there also will be an interactive Q&A on the Kentucky Derby Facebook page (Facebook.com/KentuckyDerby) at 12:30 p.m.

The new point system – officially branded as the “Road to the Kentucky Derby” – will feature 36 stakes races overall and include 17 marquee events for 3-year-old Thoroughbreds that comprise a compact, 10-week run up to the first Saturday in May to be known as the “Kentucky Derby Championship Series.”

The change will be in effect for the 139^th running of the $2 million guaranteed Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (Grade I) on Saturday, May 4, 2013.

Also, the $1 million Kentucky Oaks, the Derby’s 3-year-old filly counterpart run on the day before the Derby on Friday, May 3, 2013, will adopt a similar point system for selecting its maximum of 14 starters.

The “Road to the Kentucky Derby” point system was created to establish a clear, practical and understandable path to the first leg of horse racing’s Triple Crown, as opposed to the approximately 185 graded stakes races worldwide – including 60 open races and another 43 races restricted to fillies in North America – that counted toward the Derby selection under the previous eligibility process.

“Our primary driving motive is to create new fans for horse racing,” said CDI Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Bob Evans. “We’re implementing a more fan-friendly, cohesive and simplified system that should create compelling drama and appeal to a wider customer base. Fans, as well as the owners and trainers of the horses, will know exactly which races are included and what races matter the most based on a sliding scale of points.

“Additionally, the new system, which gives us greater stability, represents historical relevancy and helps to ensure our longstanding mission of assembling the finest group of 3-year-olds in the starting gate for a race at the classic distance of 1 ¼ miles on the first Saturday in May. We want to maximize the quality of the Derby field and protect the integrity of the race, while respecting the tradition and relevance of paths taken to the race by previous Kentucky Derby winners and prominent starters.”

The new “Road to the Kentucky Derby” series will be divided into two phases, each offering different points to the Top 4 finishers of each race over geographically diverse and historically significant paths:

The “Kentucky Derby Prep Season” includes 19 races on dirt or synthetic surfaces over distances of at least one mile that are typically run between late September and late February. The lone exception is England’s Royal Lodge, an international juvenile steppingstone that is carded at one mile on turf at Newmarket. These races traditionally serve as foundation-building races in advance of the “Kentucky Derby Championship Series.” Points will be awarded to the Top 4 finishers in each race on a 10-4-2-1 scale.

The “Kentucky Derby Championship Series” is a three-part series of 17 marquee races on dirt or synthetic surfaces over distances of at least one mile that are traditionally run over a compact, 10-week run up to the first Saturday in May:

The first leg, which mostly includes races that feed into the major Kentucky Derby launching pads, includes eight events – the Risen Star (Fair Grounds), Fountain of Youth (Gulfstream Park), Gotham (Aqueduct), Tampa Bay Derby (Tampa Bay Downs), San Felipe (Santa Anita), Rebel (Oaklawn Park), Spiral (Turfway Park) and Sunland Derby (Sunland Park) – with a 50-20-10-5 point scale;
The second leg features seven stakes races – the Florida Derby (Gulfstream Park), UAE Derby (Meydan Racecourse), Louisiana Derby (Fair Grounds), Wood Memorial (Aqueduct), Santa Anita Derby (Santa Anita), Arkansas Derby (Oaklawn Park) and Blue Grass (Keeneland) – that are worth 100-40-20-10; and
The final leg is two “Wild Card” events, the Lexington (Keeneland) and The Cliff’s Edge Derby Trial (Churchill Downs), which offer some hope for horses to increase their point totals with a 20-8-4-2 scale.

The Top 20 point earners will earn a spot in the Kentucky Derby starting gate if more than 20 horses enter the race. At least 20 horses have entered the Derby every year since 2004 and 12 of the last 14 years. Up to 24 horses may enter the race and four horses can be listed as “also eligible” and would be ranked in order accordingly; they could draw into the field should any horse(s) be scratched in the days leading up to the race.

If two or more horses have the same number of points, which can often be the case whenever a point system is introduced, the tiebreaker to get into the Kentucky Derby or Kentucky Oaks will be earnings in non-restricted stakes races, whether they are graded or not.

In the event of a dead-heat in a “Road to the Kentucky Derby” race, those horses will divide equally the points they would have received jointly had one beaten the other.

If a filly wants to run in the Kentucky Derby she can, but she’ll have to earn her way into the field by accumulating points against open company just like the rest of the colts and geldings. Each of the three female winners of the Kentucky Derby – Regret (1915), Genuine Risk (1980) and Winning Colors (1988) – faced males prior to winning “The Run for the Roses.” Additionally, any points earned by a filly in the “Road to the Kentucky Derby” series against open company will be credited to her point total in the “Road to the Kentucky Oaks” series.

Churchill Downs officials will review which races will be included in the “Road to the Kentucky Derby” series annually. Plans call for the schedule to be announced each July.

“If someone comes to us with an idea that we think is innovative and makes the ‘Road to the Kentucky Derby’ better, we’ll certainly be open to it,” said Churchill Downs Racetrack President Kevin Flanery. “At this point and time, what we’ve assumed here is that the racetracks will run the same races under the same conditions around the same dates as last year. If not, we’ll have to adjust the schedule.”

After commissioning a poll of more than 300 sports fans nationwide that showed 83% did not understand how a Thoroughbred qualified to compete in the Kentucky Derby, Churchill Downs officials decided to move forward with a change in the system.

“People understand that the Kentucky Derby is the Super Bowl of horse racing, but they don’t understand what the ‘league’ structure is and what the series is to get there,” Flanery said. “We think by simplifying this series with a point system, making it more cohesive and introducing the ‘Kentucky Derby Championship Series’ in the 10 weeks that precede the race can spark fan interest and engage the casual fan earlier. If there’s compelling drama and people have a better understanding of what it takes to get into the Derby, we think there’s a good chance they’ll become more interested in our sport.”

Churchill Downs plans to utilize different distribution channels in an attempt to grow fan interest. The USA Today Sports Media Group, whose parent corporation Gannett also owns Louisville’s Courier-Journal, is an official marketing partner for the “Road to the Kentucky Derby.” Updated point standings and coverage of series races will appear regularly online and in print editions, which have a nationwide daily circulation of more than 1.8 million.

Churchill Downs also will make the most of its popular digital platforms such as TwinSpires.com, the country’s premier account-wagering company; KentuckyDerby.com, the event’s official Web site which had 2.9 million unique visitors and more than 23.2 million page views for this year’s renewal; and its popular social media assets on Facebook and Twitter that reach more than 313,000 people.

“We’ve left room for growth and innovation,” Flanery said. “I can envision this as a 40-race series down the road. We plan to work with the racetracks that are part of the ‘Road to the Kentucky Derby’ to promote the series and help build business on days when their races take place. We see this new point-based series as something the serious handicapper and the casual sports fan can wrap their arms around – a clear, cohesive and understandable path to the Derby and one that will be fun to follow. It’s a powerful marketing initiative that has the ability to get thousands of new fans to pay attention to our sport in advance of the Triple Crown. It will take time, but we want to be proactive and do something.”

ROAD TO THE KENTUCKY DERBY

KENTUCKY DERBY PREP SEASON

Race	Distance	Track	Location	1^st	2^nd	3^rd	4^th
Royal Lodge	1 M (T)	Newmarket	England	10	4	2	1
Norfolk	1 1/16 M	Santa Anita	California	10	4	2	1
Breeders’ Futurity	1 1/16 M (S)	Keeneland	Kentucky	10	4	2	1
Champagne	1 M	Belmont	New York	10	4	2	1
Grey	1 1/16 M (S)	Woodbine	Canada	10	4	2	1
Breeders’ Cup Juvenile	1 1/16 M	Santa Anita	California	10	4	2	1
Delta Downs Jackpot	1 1/16 M	Delta Downs	Louisiana	10	4	2	1
Remsen	1 1/8 M	Aqueduct	New York	10	4	2	1
Kentucky Jockey Club	1 1/16 M	Churchill Downs	Kentucky	10	4	2	1
CashCall Futurity	1 1/16 M (S)	Hollywood Park	California	10	4	2	1
Sham	1 M	Santa Anita	California	10	4	2	1
Smarty Jones	1 M	Oaklawn Park	Arkansas	10	4	2	1
Lecomte	1 M 70 Y	Fair Grounds	Louisiana	10	4	2	1
Holy Bull	1 M	Gulfstream Park	Florida	10	4	2	1
Robert B. Lewis	1 1/16 M	Santa Anita	California	10	4	2	1
Sam F. Davis	1 1/16 M	Tampa Bay Downs	Florida	10	4	2	1
Withers	1 1/16 M	Aqueduct	New York	10	4	2	1
El Camino Real Derby	1 1/8 M (S)	Golden Gate	California	10	4	2	1
Southwest	1 M	Oaklawn Park	Arkansas	10	4	2	1

KENTUCKY DERBY CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES

Race	Distance	Track	Location	1^st	2^nd	3^rd	4^th
First Leg of Series
Risen Star	1 1/16 M	Fair Grounds	Louisiana	50	20	10	5
Fountain of Youth	1 1/16 M	Gulfstream Park	Florida	50	20	10	5
Gotham	1 1/16 M	Aqueduct	New York	50	20	10	5
Tampa Bay Derby	1 1/16 M	Tampa Bay Downs	Florida	50	20	10	5
San Felipe	1 1/16 M	Santa Anita	California	50	20	10	5
Rebel	1 1/16 M	Oaklawn Park	Arkansas	50	20	10	5
Spiral	1 1/8 M (S)	Turfway Park	Kentucky	50	20	10	5
Sunland Derby	1 1/8 M	Sunland Park	New Mexico	50	20	10	5
Second Leg of Series
Florida Derby	1 1/8 M	Gulfstream Park	Florida	100	40	20	10
UAE Derby	1 3/16 M (S)	Meydan Racecourse	Dubai	100	40	20	10
Louisiana Derby	1 1/8 M	Fair Grounds	Louisiana	100	40	20	10
Wood Memorial	1 1/8 M	Aqueduct	New York	100	40	20	10
Santa Anita Derby	1 1/8 M	Santa Anita	California	100	40	20	10
Arkansas Derby	1 1/8 M	Oaklawn Park	Arkansas	100	40	20	10
Blue Grass	1 1/8 M (S)	Keeneland	Kentucky	100	40	20	10
“Wild Card”
Lexington	1 1/16 M (S)	Keeneland	Kentucky	20	8	4	2
The Cliff’s Edge Derby Trial	1 M	Churchill Downs	Kentucky	20	8	4	2

ROAD TO THE KENTUCKY OAKS

KENTUCKY OAKS PREP SEASON

Race	Distance	Track	Location	1^st	2^nd	3^rd	4^th
Fillies’ Mile	1 M (T)	Newmarket	England	10	4	2	1
Oak Leaf	1 1/16 M	Santa Anita	California	10	4	2	1
Alcibiades	1 1/16 M (S)	Keeneland	Kentucky	10	4	2	1
Frizette	1 M	Belmont	New York	10	4	2	1
Mazarine	1 1/16 M (S)	Woodbine	Canada	10	4	2	1
Pocahontas	1 M	Churchill Downs	Kentucky	10	4	2	1
Breeders’ Cup Juvenile Fillies	1 1/16 M	Santa Anita	California	10	4	2	1
Delta Downs Princess	1 M	Delta Downs	Louisiana	10	4	2	1
Demoiselle	1 1/8 M	Aqueduct	New York	10	4	2	1
Golden Rod	1 1/16 M	Churchill Downs	Kentucky	10	4	2	1
Hollywood Starlet	1 1/16 M (S)	Hollywood Park	California	10	4	2	1
Old Hat	6 F	Gulfstream Park	Florida	10	4	2	1
Busanda	1 M	Aqueduct	New York	10	4	2	1
Santa Ynez	6 ½ F	Santa Anita	California	10	4	2	1
Silverbulletday	1 M 70 Y	Fair Grounds	Louisiana	10	4	2	1
California Oaks	1 1/16 M (S)	Golden Gate	California	10	4	2	1
Santa Ysabel	1 1/16 M	Santa Anita	California	10	4	2	1
Forward Gal	7 F	Gulfstream Park	Florida	10	4	2	1
UAE 1000 Guineas	1 M (S)	Meydan Race Course	Dubai	10	4	2	1
Martha Washington	1 M	Oaklawn Park	Arkansas	10	4	2	1

KENTUCKY OAKS CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES

Race	Distance	Track	Location	1^st	2^nd	3^rd	4^th
First Leg of Series
UAE Oaks	1 3/16 M (S)	Meydan Racecourse	Dubai	50	20	10	5
Davona Dale	1 1/16 M	Gulfstream Park	Florida	50	20	10	5
Rachel Alexandra	1 1/16 M	Fair Grounds	Louisiana	50	20	10	5
Las Virgenes	1 M	Santa Anita	California	50	20	10	5
Honeybee	1 1/16 M	Oaklawn Park	Arkansas	50	20	10	5
Cicada	6 F	Aqueduct	New York	50	20	10	5
Bourbonette Oaks	1 M (S)	Turfway Park	Kentucky	50	20	10	5
Sunland Park Oaks	1 1/16 M	Sunland Park	New Mexico	50	20	10	5
Second Leg of Series
Fair Grounds Oaks	1 1/16 M	Fair Grounds	Louisiana	100	40	20	10
Gulfstream Oaks	1 1/8 M	Gulfstream Park	Florida	100	40	20	10
Santa Anita Oaks	1 1/16 M	Santa Anita	California	100	40	20	10
Ashland	1 1/16 M (S)	Keeneland	Kentucky	100	40	20	10
Comely	1 M	Aqueduct	New York	100	40	20	10
Fantasy	1 1/16 M	Oaklawn Park	Arkansas	100	40	20	10
“Wild Card”
Beaumont	7 F (S)	Keeneland	Kentucky	20	8	4	2

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Rachel

So a few synthetic races will count, but no turf? NO Grade 1 filly races will count at all? You mean a filly has to start out in the colt realm before her connections believe she can even handle the colts?
Why does the UAE Derby count so highly? Because we have so many Derby winners from that prep?
So the Champagne and BC winners will get 10 points for running the 2 biggest races in their 2-year-old year, but if they have to stop a bit from a growth spurt, shins, etc they will be penalized and the late bloomers can walk all over them because the points are 10x as much…great…now that’s fair…not.
- IDavis
  
  Agree wholeheartedly. This is so that fillies can’t continue to dominate Thoroughbred racing as they have the past 3 yrs…winning the Eclipse Award as Rachel, Zenyatta, and Havre de Grace has done. Change is good, but not this type of change…it’s abominable to say the least.
  - Terri Zeitz
    
    Surely sounds like it.
- DawnP
  
  Yeah! The UAE Derby has become a major prep in the past few years! *snark*
Rachel

So a few synthetic races will count, but no turf? NO Grade 1 filly races will count at all? You mean a filly has to start out in the colt realm before her connections believe she can even handle the colts?
Why does the UAE Derby count so highly? Because we have so many Derby winners from that prep?
So the Champagne and BC winners will get 10 points for running the 2 biggest races in their 2-year-old year, but if they have to stop a bit from a growth spurt, shins, etc they will be penalized and the late bloomers can walk all over them because the points are 10x as much…great…now that’s fair…not.
spost

I wonder if they have gone back in time to see who earned what points in previous years, and what the fields would have looked like, and if anything placed that would have been excluded under the new rules.
- Glimmerglass
  
  Some quick reviewing with a few random horses, shows:
  
  Dullahan at 111-points
  Winning Colors (f) at 100-points
  Union Rags at 84-points
  
  Funny Cide at 60-points
  Genuine Risk (f) with 20-points
  Mine That Bird at 15-points
  
  I suspect like graded money the # of points needed to get in for any year can vary significantly depending upon injury, taken off the trail, non-TC nominated, etc.
Francis Bush

Perhaps the change could be improved if we added some of the local school board members to the committee. They have a wide range of experience in creating fiascos of this sort. I suppose the old $-high system had become too easy to operate.
spost

I wonder if they have gone back in time to see who earned what points in previous years, and what the fields would have looked like, and if anything placed that would have been excluded under the new rules.
Francis Bush

Perhaps the change could be improved if we added some of the local school board members to the committee. They have a wide range of experience in creating fiascos of this sort. I suppose the old $-high system had become too easy to operate.
IDavis

Agree wholeheartedly. This is so that fillies can’t continue to dominate Thoroughbred racing as they have the past 3 yrs…winning the Eclipse Award as Rachel, Zenyatta, and Havre de Grace has done. Change is good, but not this type of change…it’s abominable to say the least.
Alan

The Louisiana Derby is a 100 point race while the Florida Derby is only a 50 pointer? Am I reading this correctly?
- Terri Zeitz
  
  Alan, Fla Derby is 100 points. The Fountain of Youth is 50. Maybe you misread. Leave it to Churchill Downs to do something like this.
Alan

The Louisiana Derby is a 100 point race while the Florida Derby is only a 50 pointer? Am I reading this correctly?
Albert LoRusso

There is a lot to digest and I have mixed feelings. It has a FedEx Cup feel to it and we know how that has just added confusion to golf and irrelevance. We all can name recent Kentucky Derby winners that came from the turf or ran in lower level races with inflated casino purses or fillies that grabbed the national spotlight. They all seem to be losers under the proposed
system and they were all great stories.
- IDavis
  
  Agree. What about Barbaro and Big Brown? They ran superbly on the turf during their 2 yr old yrs. Why do they give credit to a race in England on turf and not to any U.S. turf races? Makes no sense, but then again it’s Churchill Downs. How has the sport of racing come to allow CD to call the shots on one of the most renowned races in the world?? Another reason we need a national commissioner before this sport is totally thrown to the wolves.
Albert LoRusso

There is a lot to digest and I have mixed feelings. It has a FedEx Cup feel to it and we know how that has just added confusion to golf and irrelevance. We all can name recent Kentucky Derby winners that came from the turf or ran in lower level races with inflated casino purses or fillies that grabbed the national spotlight. They all seem to be losers under the proposed
system and they were all great stories.
Glimmerglass

Looks like Churchill Downs just knifed their Arlington Park holding’s rival of Hawthorne Race Course hard by not recognizing the Grade 2 $500,000 Illinois Derby. Yet CD gives points to a Newmarket, England turf race that’s never been envisioned as a feeder race.
Glimmerglass

Looks like Churchill Downs just knifed their Arlington Park holding’s rival of Hawthorne Race Course hard by not recognizing the Grade 2 $500,000 Illinois Derby. Yet CD gives points to a Newmarket, England turf race that’s never been envisioned as a feeder race.
Terri Zeitz

Alan, Fla Derby is 100 points. The Fountain of Youth is 50. Maybe you misread. Leave it to Churchill Downs to do something like this.
Terri Zeitz

Surely sounds like it.
Damon Runyon

CDI shareholders will be voting on bonuses for senior executives today, with Bob Evans set to receive $1.1 million. In addition, they will be voting on new incentives for executives which could total $5 million.

Must be nice to be a member of the 1% club.
Damon Runyon

CDI shareholders will be voting on bonuses for senior executives today, with Bob Evans set to receive $1.1 million. In addition, they will be voting on new incentives for executives which could total $5 million.

Must be nice to be a member of the 1% club.
IDavis

Agree. What about Barbaro and Big Brown? They ran superbly on the turf during their 2 yr old yrs. Why do they give credit to a race in England on turf and not to any U.S. turf races? Makes no sense, but then again it’s Churchill Downs. How has the sport of racing come to allow CD to call the shots on one of the most renowned races in the world?? Another reason we need a national commissioner before this sport is totally thrown to the wolves.
lisa wintermote

I believe the current system can be improved but this doesn’t improve anything. I’ve always felt the system unfairly rewarded precocious juveniles over later developing horses. I think the graded earnings system should remain with one change– earnings by a 2 yr old should be counted as half. In other words, if he/she earned 200,000 as a 2 yr old, they would be credited with 100,000. After Jan 1, all earnings as a 3 yr old in graded races would get full credit.
This new proposal unfairly discriminates against fillies. It also places too much weight on races that have had no real effect on the KY Derby and too little on others that have.
- Rachel
  
  Why? If a horse can run as a race horse at 2 why should it be punished for being able to run? Isn’t that its purpose?
  - lisa wintermote
    
    Because precocious 2yr olds are rarely classic 3 yr olds. I didn’t say never mind you! Breeding for precocity rather than durability is a great deal of the problem with the breed as I see it. If we stop rewarding precocity people will stop focusing their breeding programs on it. There are, of course, horses who will be naturally precocious and there is plenty of great races for them and Eclipse honors at stake which they richly deserve. I did not suggest discounting 2 ur old earnings all together, merely that we do not give them the same weight as 3 yr old earnings. Again, just my opinion!
    - Rachel
      
      Precocious 2 year-olds that were 2 year-old champion and that are also classic horses (since 1971):
      Riva Ridge
      Secretariat
      Seattle Slew
      Affirmed
      Spectacular Bid
      Easy Goer
      Looking At Lucky
      Street Sense
      I know there are probably more.
      - lisa wintermote
        
        Rachel, the horses you mention were truly great and I’m taking nothing away from their accomplishments. But you must have noticed that that’s a total of 8 in 41 years and not all were Derby winners (though they certainly belonged).This new system does actually address this issue by giving less points for the 2yr old races and if a precocious 2yr old is destined for greatness, he will continue his winning ways as a 3yr old!
lisa wintermote

I believe the current system can be improved but this doesn’t improve anything. I’ve always felt the system unfairly rewarded precocious juveniles over later developing horses. I think the graded earnings system should remain with one change– earnings by a 2 yr old should be counted as half. In other words, if he/she earned 200,000 as a 2 yr old, they would be credited with 100,000. After Jan 1, all earnings as a 3 yr old in graded races would get full credit.
This new proposal unfairly discriminates against fillies. It also places too much weight on races that have had no real effect on the KY Derby and too little on others that have.
DawnP

Yeah! The UAE Derby has become a major prep in the past few years! *snark*
Butchcassidy

Way to leave your own track of Arlington out of there by dismissing The Arlington-Washington Juvenile Races.
Butchcassidy

Way to leave your own track of Arlington out of there by dismissing The Arlington-Washington Juvenile Races.
Rachel

Why? If a horse can run as a race horse at 2 why should it be punished for being able to run? Isn’t that its purpose?
lisa wintermote

Because precocious 2yr olds are rarely classic 3 yr olds. I didn’t say never mind you! Breeding for precocity rather than durability is a great deal of the problem with the breed as I see it. If we stop rewarding precocity people will stop focusing their breeding programs on it. There are, of course, horses who will be naturally precocious and there is plenty of great races for them and Eclipse honors at stake which they richly deserve. I did not suggest discounting 2 ur old earnings all together, merely that we do not give them the same weight as 3 yr old earnings. Again, just my opinion!
Bryan Langlois (ShelterDoc)

I actually kind of like most of the system, specifically that it focuses on races over a mile mostly. This prevents people from being able to get in off of races like the Hopeful and Swale or Bay Shore (i.e. a horse like Trinniberg would rightfully not have been allowed in the Derby). I am curious to see a comparison also of how the fields would have looked different, but not sure how accurate that would be with purses skyrocketing in certain races recently to try and draw horses.
I think we also have to remember that according to what I see in the release, this seems more a system to try and bring fans into the sport and follow the road to the Derby than an actual attempt to get the best horses in the gate. Not sure how it will go.
I think one thing that has to be looked at as well from that perspective is NBC really has to step up to the plate here and agree to televise a lot of these races and create buzz about the series. Perhaps they could link it somehow to the Derby Dream bet through an online fantasy league like Run to the Roses is done. Basically whomever gets the highest point total based on creating a stable or by selecting winners of races would be allowed to be the one to place the 100,000 dollar dream bet on Derby Day. Certainly would be an incentive for people to get in
- Bryan Langlois (ShelterDoc)
  
  ahh…pressed wrong key. What I was saying was I think that (if promoted properly through NBC and Horse Racing Nation) could bring a lot of people to the sport by having them get invovled in the stories behind the horses and the ones running on the Derby trail.
- Michele
  
  Agreed, and there should also be changes for the Preakness and Belmont as well. How is horse that broke its maiden on its 8th try only 2 months prior & then 2nd against $75k Optional Claiming horses permitted to enter the race? It’s not a Cinderalla story, it’s just to increase field size and ultimately the handle because that’s all they care about..there is no ‘prestige’ to the race anymore.
Bryan Langlois (ShelterDoc)

I actually kind of like most of the system, specifically that it focuses on races over a mile mostly. This prevents people from being able to get in off of races like the Hopeful and Swale or Bay Shore (i.e. a horse like Trinniberg would rightfully not have been allowed in the Derby). I am curious to see a comparison also of how the fields would have looked different, but not sure how accurate that would be with purses skyrocketing in certain races recently to try and draw horses.
I think we also have to remember that according to what I see in the release, this seems more a system to try and bring fans into the sport and follow the road to the Derby than an actual attempt to get the best horses in the gate. Not sure how it will go.
I think one thing that has to be looked at as well from that perspective is NBC really has to step up to the plate here and agree to televise a lot of these races and create buzz about the series. Perhaps they could link it somehow to the Derby Dream bet through an online fantasy league like Run to the Roses is done. Basically whomever gets the highest point total based on creating a stable or by selecting winners of races would be allowed to be the one to place the 100,000 dollar dream bet on Derby Day. Certainly would be an incentive for people to get in
Bryan Langlois (ShelterDoc)

ahh…pressed wrong key. What I was saying was I think that (if promoted properly through NBC and Horse Racing Nation) could bring a lot of people to the sport by having them get invovled in the stories behind the horses and the ones running on the Derby trail.
Barbara

Wow. Only racing industry entity run by C- brain power could create such a mess and then say, with a straight face, that fans would understand it better now. Other than dismissing races like the Gr. 1 Champagne and Breeders’ Cup Juvenile (hello, CDI, no plans to host another BC?), it looks to me like they just put several shades of lipstick on their pig.

All they had to do was use the points system for graded stakes that the BC uses for graded stakes races of one mile or more.
- Bryan Langlois (ShelterDoc)
  
  I don’t think they are dismissing them…they are just putting them in a lower bracket because they are 2 year old races. Anyone who wins either of those races and is a true classics type of horse should have no problem making the transition to 3 years old and winning some of the other graded races. If a realy precocious 2 year old wins the BC Juvenille with a sprinters pedigree and then can’t stretch out in the spring next year effectively…they don’t belong in the Derby.
  - Barbara
    
    You mean like Uncle Mo?
    
    Brian, a two year old that wins a two turn 1 1/6th mile Gr. 1 stakes race against the best of his generation in November is a decent miler at worst. Like the majority of Derby entrants.
    - Bryan Langlois (ShelterDoc)
      
      Uncle Mo was a great miler no doubt about it, but for whatever reason (pedigree or illness) he could not prove himself at distances 9 furlongs and up. Its no knock on him. Its just my point of if they can’t transition to the longer distances at 3, they should not be in the Derby. This system gives them plenty of chances to do that.
      - Barbara
        
        Not according to Pletcher.
Barbara

Wow. Only racing industry entity run by C- brain power could create such a mess and then say, with a straight face, that fans would understand it better now. Other than dismissing races like the Gr. 1 Champagne and Breeders’ Cup Juvenile (hello, CDI, no plans to host another BC?), it looks to me like they just put several shades of lipstick on their pig.

All they had to do was use the points system for graded stakes that the BC uses for graded stakes races of one mile or more.
triplecrownquest

Anyone else’s head spinning like Linda Blair’s after reading this????
The effort is appreciated, but some glaring, unbelievable mistakes…such as leaving out the Illinois Derby…just makes this all very laughable.
- Barbara
  
  That wasn’t a mistake. That was typical spite and malice from CDI.
  - triplecrownquest
    
    It makes you wonder why CDI & Stronach and a few others continue to make decisions that will only contribute to the demise of Horse Racing in the United States.
triplecrownquest

Anyone else’s head spinning like Linda Blair’s after reading this????
The effort is appreciated, but some glaring, unbelievable mistakes…such as leaving out the Illinois Derby…just makes this all very laughable.
triplecrownquest

How is Del Mar feeling after reading that? Kind of takes the teeth out of the Best Pal and the Del Mar Futurity doesn’t it?
- Glimmerglass
  
  Likely the feel the same way Saratoga does with the G2 Hopeful and G2 Saratoga Special … both persona non grata
triplecrownquest

How is Del Mar feeling after reading that? Kind of takes the teeth out of the Best Pal and the Del Mar Futurity doesn’t it?
5k-Claim

I love corporations.

They are so innovative and embrace potential “controversy.” (See quotes by Bob Evans.)

Golden Goose… you are not as safe as you may think you are…
5k-Claim

I love corporations.

They are so innovative and embrace potential “controversy.” (See quotes by Bob Evans.)

Golden Goose… you are not as safe as you may think you are…
Barbara

That wasn’t a mistake. That was typical spite and malice from CDI.
Bookie Buster

Okay Sausage man what if i race in Canada , France or the run in the TRADITIONAL 3year old preps in England of which the Royal Lodge certainly is NOT included. hmmmm

Wow…I guess only racing at CDI tracks matter now.
Bookiebuster1

Okay Sausage man what if i race in Canada , France or the run in the TRADITIONAL 3year old preps in England of which the Royal Lodge certainly is NOT included. hmmmm

Wow…I guess only racing at CDI tracks matter now.
Bryan Langlois (ShelterDoc)

I don’t think they are dismissing them…they are just putting them in a lower bracket because they are 2 year old races. Anyone who wins either of those races and is a true classics type of horse should have no problem making the transition to 3 years old and winning some of the other graded races. If a realy precocious 2 year old wins the BC Juvenille with a sprinters pedigree and then can’t stretch out in the spring next year effectively…they don’t belong in the Derby.
Michele

Agreed, and there should also be changes for the Preakness and Belmont as well. How is horse that broke its maiden on its 8th try only 2 months prior & then 2nd against $75k Optional Claiming horses permitted to enter the race? It’s not a Cinderalla story, it’s just to increase field size and ultimately the handle because that’s all they care about..there is no ‘prestige’ to the race anymore.
Glimmerglass

Some quick reviewing with a few random horses, shows:

Dullahan at 111-points
Winning Colors (f) at 100-points
Union Rags at 84-points

Funny Cide at 60-points
Genuine Risk (f) with 20-points
Mine That Bird at 15-points

I suspect like graded money the # of points needed to get in for any year can vary significantly depending upon injury, taken off the trail, non-TC nominated, etc.
triplecrownquest

It makes you wonder why CDI & Stronach and a few others continue to make decisions that will only contribute to the demise of Horse Racing in the United States.
Twilight Tear

I think it is a wonderful idea which will generate more fan interest. A point system is a much fairer way to go. Would be better to limit the field to 15, but this is a huge step in the right direction to promote racing to the general public. Now if we had a national Governing Body who would stream all of these races free online, then we would really get the show on the road.
Well done.
Twilight Tear

I think it is a wonderful idea which will generate more fan interest. A point system is a much fairer way to go. Would be better to limit the field to 15, but this is a huge step in the right direction to promote racing to the general public. Now if we had a national Governing Body who would stream all of these races free online, then we would really get the show on the road.
Well done.
Bryan Langlois (ShelterDoc)

Thoroughbredtimes put together the following list of how the winners of the last 10 Derbies would have stacked up in new point system:
Following is a list of the past 15 Kentucky Derby winners and what their point totals would have been under the new system. Included with each horse are the designated points races he competed in, his finish in the event, and the points he earned for the effort.

2012 — I’ll Have Another — 110 points
Robert B. Lewis Stakes (G2) — first, ten points
Santa Anita Derby (G1) — first, 100 points

2011 — Animal Kingdom — 50 points
Vinery Racing Spiral Stakes (G3) — first, 50 points

2010 — Super Saver — 61 points
Champagne Stakes (G1) — fourth, one point
Kentucky Jockey Club Stakes (G2) — first, ten points
Tampa Bay Derby (G3) — third, ten points
Arkansas Derby (G1) — second, 40 points

2009 — Mine That Bird — 15 points
Grey Stakes (Can-G3) — first, ten points
Breeders’ Cup Juvenile (G1) — 12th, zero points
Sunland Derby — fourth, five points

2008 — Big Brown — 100 points
Florida Derby (G1) — first, 100 points

2007 — Street Sense — 102 points
Breeders’ Futurity (G1) — third, two points
Breeders’ Cup Juvenile (G1) — first, ten points
Tampa Bay Derby (G3) — first, 50 points
Blue Grass Stakes (G1) — second, 40 points

2006 — Barbaro — 110 points
Holy Bull Stakes (G3) — first, ten points
Florida Derby (G1) — first, 100 points

2005 — Giacomo — 36 points
Hollywood Futurity (G1) — second, four points
Sham Stakes — third, two points
San Felipe Stakes (G2) — second, 20 points
Santa Anita Derby (G1) — fourth, ten points

2004 — Smarty Jones — 160 points
Southwest Stakes — first, ten points
Rebel Stakes — first, 50 points
Arkansas Derby (G2) — first, 100 points

2003 — Funny Cide — 80 points
Holy Bull Stakes (G3) – fifth, zero points
Louisiana Derby (G2) — second, 40 points
Wood Memorial Stakes (G1) — second, 40 points

2002 — War Emblem — 0 points
LeComte Stakes — fifth, zero points
Risen Star Stakes (G3) — sixth, zero points

2001 — Monarchos — 140 points
Florida Derby (G1) — first, 100 points
Wood Memorial Stakes (G2) — second, 40 points

2000 — Fusaichi Pegasus — 150 points
San Felipe Stakes (G2) — first, 50 points
Wood Memorial Stakes (G2) — first, 100 points

1999 — Charismatic — 34 points
El Camino Real Derby (G3) — second, four points
Santa Anita Derby (G1) — fourth, ten points
Lexington Stakes (G2) — first, 20 points

1998 — Real Quiet — 72 points
Kentucky Jockey Club Stakes (G3) — third, two points
Hollywood Futurity (G1) — first, ten points
San Felipe Stakes (G2) — second, 20 points
Santa Anita Derby (G1) — second, 40 points

If the points system were applied to the 2012 Kentucky Derby contenders, the final two horses into the field — taking into account contenders who were injured or voluntarily withdrawn from consideration by their connections during prep season — would have been Gung Ho and Teeth of the Dog, with 20 points each. My Adonis, who was entered in the Derby but placed on the also-eligible list based on graded stakes earnings, also would have made the main body of the field under the points system.

Liaison, who finished sixth in the Derby, Done Talking, who finished 14th, and Trinniberg, who was 17th, likely would not have started. Liaison, winner of the CashCall Futurity (G1) as a juvenile, would have earned 15 points in designated races, placing him on the four-horse also-eligible list. Illinois Derby winner Done Talking would have had just one point from a designated race, while Trinniberg, a multiple graded stakes winning sprinter, would have had no points.

It is interesting to see how things would have played out, but may not be totally reliable as an indicator since if this point system was in place, trainers probably would have pointed their horses for different races.
- Figless
  
  So four of the winners likely would have been excluded under this system?? Clearly we have a problem. The Graded Earnings system NEEDED desperately to be changed, but this system is poorly thought out at best and biased at worst.
  There is too much money distributed to unworthy 3yo’s at the expense of good older runners, and the graded stakes committee has felt obligated to Grade many undeserving races to make them qualify. These two big problems are addressed by the sytem and we should applaud this development, but it needs to be tweaked.
  The “Classic” greater than one mile traditional juvenile races like the BC Juvenile, Champagne etc need to have their point total doubled so they are worth more than the El Camino Royal, the Royal Lodge and the Withers, clearly. And the Derby Trial and Lexington simply can not mean more than the BC Juvenile, gimme a break.
  The Illinois Derby snub is an embarrassment.
  This took 12 months to come up with?
Bryan Langlois (ShelterDoc)

Thoroughbredtimes put together the following list of how the winners of the last 10 Derbies would have stacked up in new point system:
Following is a list of the past 15 Kentucky Derby winners and what their point totals would have been under the new system. Included with each horse are the designated points races he competed in, his finish in the event, and the points he earned for the effort.

2012 — I’ll Have Another — 110 points
Robert B. Lewis Stakes (G2) — first, ten points
Santa Anita Derby (G1) — first, 100 points

2011 — Animal Kingdom — 50 points
Vinery Racing Spiral Stakes (G3) — first, 50 points

2010 — Super Saver — 61 points
Champagne Stakes (G1) — fourth, one point
Kentucky Jockey Club Stakes (G2) — first, ten points
Tampa Bay Derby (G3) — third, ten points
Arkansas Derby (G1) — second, 40 points

2009 — Mine That Bird — 15 points
Grey Stakes (Can-G3) — first, ten points
Breeders’ Cup Juvenile (G1) — 12th, zero points
Sunland Derby — fourth, five points

2008 — Big Brown — 100 points
Florida Derby (G1) — first, 100 points

2007 — Street Sense — 102 points
Breeders’ Futurity (G1) — third, two points
Breeders’ Cup Juvenile (G1) — first, ten points
Tampa Bay Derby (G3) — first, 50 points
Blue Grass Stakes (G1) — second, 40 points

2006 — Barbaro — 110 points
Holy Bull Stakes (G3) — first, ten points
Florida Derby (G1) — first, 100 points

2005 — Giacomo — 36 points
Hollywood Futurity (G1) — second, four points
Sham Stakes — third, two points
San Felipe Stakes (G2) — second, 20 points
Santa Anita Derby (G1) — fourth, ten points

2004 — Smarty Jones — 160 points
Southwest Stakes — first, ten points
Rebel Stakes — first, 50 points
Arkansas Derby (G2) — first, 100 points

2003 — Funny Cide — 80 points
Holy Bull Stakes (G3) – fifth, zero points
Louisiana Derby (G2) — second, 40 points
Wood Memorial Stakes (G1) — second, 40 points

2002 — War Emblem — 0 points
LeComte Stakes — fifth, zero points
Risen Star Stakes (G3) — sixth, zero points

2001 — Monarchos — 140 points
Florida Derby (G1) — first, 100 points
Wood Memorial Stakes (G2) — second, 40 points

2000 — Fusaichi Pegasus — 150 points
San Felipe Stakes (G2) — first, 50 points
Wood Memorial Stakes (G2) — first, 100 points

1999 — Charismatic — 34 points
El Camino Real Derby (G3) — second, four points
Santa Anita Derby (G1) — fourth, ten points
Lexington Stakes (G2) — first, 20 points

1998 — Real Quiet — 72 points
Kentucky Jockey Club Stakes (G3) — third, two points
Hollywood Futurity (G1) — first, ten points
San Felipe Stakes (G2) — second, 20 points
Santa Anita Derby (G1) — second, 40 points

If the points system were applied to the 2012 Kentucky Derby contenders, the final two horses into the field — taking into account contenders who were injured or voluntarily withdrawn from consideration by their connections during prep season — would have been Gung Ho and Teeth of the Dog, with 20 points each. My Adonis, who was entered in the Derby but placed on the also-eligible list based on graded stakes earnings, also would have made the main body of the field under the points system.

Liaison, who finished sixth in the Derby, Done Talking, who finished 14th, and Trinniberg, who was 17th, likely would not have started. Liaison, winner of the CashCall Futurity (G1) as a juvenile, would have earned 15 points in designated races, placing him on the four-horse also-eligible list. Illinois Derby winner Done Talking would have had just one point from a designated race, while Trinniberg, a multiple graded stakes winning sprinter, would have had no points.

It is interesting to see how things would have played out, but may not be totally reliable as an indicator since if this point system was in place, trainers probably would have pointed their horses for different races.
citation

How was it KD field determined prior to 1986? thanks
citation

How was it KD field determined prior to 1986? thanks
Barbara

You mean like Uncle Mo?

Brian, a two year old that wins a two turn 1 1/6th mile Gr. 1 stakes race against the best of his generation in November is a decent miler at worst. Like the majority of Derby entrants.
Lex

The second leg is OK….the rest is BS. If you owned one of these…you’re gonna tell me you’d rather win the Gotham, Tampa Derby or the Spiral than the Champagne or the BC? PUULEEEZE! Get a clue Skippy!
Lex

The second leg is OK….the rest is BS. If you owned one of these…you’re gonna tell me you’d rather win the Gotham, Tampa Derby or the Spiral than the Champagne or the BC? PUULEEEZE! Get a clue Skippy!
Rachel

Precocious 2 year-olds that were 2 year-old champion and that are also classic horses (since 1971):
Riva Ridge
Secretariat
Seattle Slew
Affirmed
Spectacular Bid
Easy Goer
Looking At Lucky
Street Sense
I know there are probably more.
Rachel

…and it’s so nice of them to tell everyone up front the value and races could change every year at their whim! What could go wrong?
Rachel

…and it’s so nice of them to tell everyone up front the value and races could change every year at their whim! What could go wrong?
lisa wintermote

Rachel, the horses you mention were truly great and I’m taking nothing away from their accomplishments. But you must have noticed that that’s a total of 8 in 41 years. This new system does actually address this issue by giving less points for the 2yr old races and if a precocious 2yr old is destined for greatness, he will continue his winning ways as a 3yr old!
Bryan Langlois (ShelterDoc)

Uncle Mo was a great miler no doubt about it, but for whatever reason (pedigree or illness) he could not prove himself at distances 9 furlongs and up. Its no knock on him. Its just my point of if they can’t transition to the longer distances at 3, they should not be in the Derby. This system gives them plenty of chances to do that.
Glimmerglass

Likely the feel the same way Saratoga does with the G2 Hopeful and G2 Saratoga Special … both persona non grata
Gmoney

Discuss this until you ate blue in the face. This system was created for one reason and one reason only, to give CDSN more power. If tracks don’t play ball with them, they decrease their rating or kick theIr races out all together. This. Abuses major decreases in handle and prestige for tracks not under the CDSN umbrella. END OF STORY. PERIOD…………..
Gmoney

Discuss this until you ate blue in the face. This system was created for one reason and one reason only, to give CDSN more power. If tracks don’t play ball with them, they decrease their rating or kick theIr races out all together. This. Abuses major decreases in handle and prestige for tracks not under the CDSN umbrella. END OF STORY. PERIOD…………..
FourCats

I like the idea of a point system, but this one seems crazy. The Breeders Cup Juvenile and the Risen Start are both 1 1/16 miles yet the Risen Star is worth 5x the points of the Breeders Cup Juvenile? Why even name which races are worth what? Just give open Grade I distance races the most points. Then subtract points for lower Grade 2/3 races, shorter races and races restricted by gender.
FourCats

I like the idea of a point system, but this one seems crazy. The Breeders Cup Juvenile and the Risen Start are both 1 1/16 miles yet the Risen Star is worth 5x the points of the Breeders Cup Juvenile? Why even name which races are worth what? Just give open Grade I distance races the most points. Then subtract points for lower Grade 2/3 races, shorter races and races restricted by gender.
Robb

It’s another case of the concept being good but the execution being poor. This point system is better than just basing Derby entrants on graded stakes earnings, irrespective of how those earnings were made (such as sprint or turf races). But the way Churchill Downs set it up isn’t effective at all. While there should be greater emphasis on the big prep races in the six weeks leading up to the Kentucky Derby, it can’t just make juvenile racing almost completely irrelevant the way their system does.

What they should do is double the points for Grade 1 juvenile races and give the Breeders Cup Juvenile winner an automatic berth. They should also dismiss the European races entirely, including the UAE Derby, which hasn’t produced a horse that finished in the top three in the Kentucky Derby. What birdbrain thought that the UAE Derby should be worth as much as the Wood Memorial, the Santa Anita Derby, the Arkansas Derby? It has had zero relevance in the Derby for its entire inception, and just giving the UAE Derby big points isn’t going to do a thing.

And leaving out the Illinois Derby is a travesty. I think it should be given “Wild Card” status with another race, the Jerome Stakes at Aqueduct. Run them the same day as the Lexington Stakes, and suddenly, there’s another big race day to get the country’s attention.

Good start, but there’s much room for improvement.
Robb

It’s another case of the concept being good but the execution being poor. This point system is better than just basing Derby entrants on graded stakes earnings, irrespective of how those earnings were made (such as sprint or turf races). But the way Churchill Downs set it up isn’t effective at all. While there should be greater emphasis on the big prep races in the six weeks leading up to the Kentucky Derby, it can’t just make juvenile racing almost completely irrelevant the way their system does.

What they should do is double the points for Grade 1 juvenile races and give the Breeders Cup Juvenile winner an automatic berth. They should also dismiss the European races entirely, including the UAE Derby, which hasn’t produced a horse that finished in the top three in the Kentucky Derby. What birdbrain thought that the UAE Derby should be worth as much as the Wood Memorial, the Santa Anita Derby, the Arkansas Derby? It has had zero relevance in the Derby for its entire inception, and just giving the UAE Derby big points isn’t going to do a thing.

And leaving out the Illinois Derby is a travesty. I think it should be given “Wild Card” status with another race, the Jerome Stakes at Aqueduct. Run them the same day as the Lexington Stakes, and suddenly, there’s another big race day to get the country’s attention.

Good start, but there’s much room for improvement.
Barbara

Not according to Pletcher.
NYRacingGal

My my – Churchill is just a wee bit partial to………………….Churchill’s interests. Rachel, Zen and Grace are surely shaking their heads and muttering about male chauvism rearing it’s ugly head (again) in racing. Here’s a thought – have the TC for 4 year olds – as breeding for speed and a quick investment return has contributed to racing’s decline, that would narrow the field! If there ever was a reason for a National Raing Board, this is it!
NYRacingGal

My my – Churchill is just a wee bit partial to………………….Churchill’s interests. Rachel, Zen and Grace are surely shaking their heads and muttering about male chauvism rearing it’s ugly head (again) in racing. Here’s a thought – have the TC for 4 year olds – as breeding for speed and a quick investment return has contributed to racing’s decline, that would narrow the field! If there ever was a reason for a National Raing Board, this is it!
Figless

So four of the winners likely would have been excluded under this system?? Clearly we have a problem. The Graded Earnings system NEEDED desperately to be changed, but this system is poorly thought out at best and biased at worst.
There is too much money distributed to unworthy 3yo’s at the expense of good older runners, and the graded stakes committee has felt obligated to Grade many undeserving races to make them qualify. These two big problems are addressed by the sytem and we should applaud this development, but it needs to be tweaked.
The “Classic” greater than one mile traditional juvenile races like the BC Juvenile, Champagne etc need to have their point total doubled so they are worth more than the El Camino Royal, the Royal Lodge and the Withers, clearly. And the Derby Trial and Lexington simply can not mean more than the BC Juvenile, gimme a break.
The Illinois Derby snub is an embarrassment.
This took 12 months to come up with?
Racefaninternational

Vision is key, but CDI offers so little
Racefaninternational

Vision is key, but CDI offers so little
http://www.facebook.com/people/William-Caple/100003246342669 William Caple

Sure it gives CD more power. I’m not crazy about the way the races are weighted in certain instances. The one positive about it is that I believe it’s a benefit for passive fans and may create more interest in racing overall in the winter months. Not everyone is going to be happy with change. I hope they tinker with this and get it right. The Breeders Cup winner only getting 10 points? That really diminishes that race when filtered through the importance of the Derby. derbydeals.com
http://www.facebook.com/people/William-Caple/100003246342669 William Caple

Sure it gives CD more power. I’m not crazy about the way the races are weighted in certain instances. The one positive about it is that I believe it’s a benefit for passive fans and may create more interest in racing overall in the winter months. Not everyone is going to be happy with change. I hope they tinker with this and get it right. The Breeders Cup winner only getting 10 points? That really diminishes that race when filtered through the importance of the Derby. derbydeals.com
Comaster54

The jury is definitely out on this new system, but I think it will keep the sprinters out of the field more in the future. The Hawthorne Derby being excluded is definitely an example of fighting between CD and Hawthorne over racing dates in Illinois. We have attended two of the last five runnings of the Derby and it is truly a treat to see in person. Not the easiest weekend to plan and navigate, but we contacted DerbyDeals.com to assist us with the Kentucky Derby Tickets and hotel accommodations. Hoping to make it back next year to see this new system in action.
Comaster54

The jury is definitely out on this new system, but I think it will keep the sprinters out of the field more in the future. The Hawthorne Derby being excluded is definitely an example of fighting between CD and Hawthorne over racing dates in Illinois. We have attended two of the last five runnings of the Derby and it is truly a treat to see in person. Not the easiest weekend to plan and navigate, but we contacted DerbyDeals.com to assist us with the Kentucky Derby Tickets and hotel accommodations. Hoping to make it back next year to see this new system in action.

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