‘Trying to Help the Horse’ — Even If It Breaks the Rules

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Racing at Penn National Racing at Penn National

Last Wednesday afternoon at Penn National near Harrisburg, Pa., Trish Rogers, the wife and assistant trainer to J. Michael Rogers, wanted to help a horse in their barn named Strong Resolve deal with a chronic internal bleeding problem.

So, about two hours before Strong Resolve was to compete in the evening’s second race, a $12,500 claiming event, Trish Rogers – according to her husband – put two cubic centimeters of furosemide, better known as Lasix, into a syringe and was getting ready to administer it to the horse. Never mind the fact that Trish Rogers isn’t a veterinarian and that the Pennsylvania rule for Lasix is that it’s to be administered four hours before a race.

In the words of her husband, who was running the couple’s stable at Presque Isle Downs while Trish managed the Penn National operation, “She was just trying to do right by the horse.”


Apparently, someone in a position of authority came across Trish Rogers and Strong Resolve and reported the incident to stewards. As a result, Strong Resolve and another Rogers trainee, Side Party Ralph, were scratched from Wednesday night’s program.

When questioned by the Paulick Report about why Strong Resolve and Side Party Ralph were listed in the Equibase charts as scratched by the stewards, the stewards deferred comment to the Pennsylvania Horse Racing Commission. They also wouldn’t comment on whether a hearing will be scheduled or a complaint filed against Trish Rogers. Multiple messages left by telephone and email with the racing commission have gone unanswered.

Twenty-four hours later, everything appeared to be business as usual. Kelly’s Endeavor romped by seven lengths at Penn National for Mike and Trish Rogers, and the following night they had another winner, Ninety Five South, who won his race by 4 1⁄4 lengths.

But Mike Rogers knows his wife violated the rules.

“(Strong Resolve) shouldn’t have been getting it when he got it,” Rogers admitted about the Lasix shot. “She was trying to help the horse, that’s all she was doing. She’s a horse person and this horse was a bad bleeder. The way they have it here, (racing authorities) don’t want to do anything to help the horse. We’re not allowed to use any adjunct medication.

“If you like your horses, you want to do right for them,” he added. “This place wants absolutely zero medication.”

Rogers added that his wife is “not the only one who has done this.”

Strong Resolve, who has been re-entered Tuesday night at Presque Isle Downs, was claimed for $25,000 by Rogers on behalf of Dr. Barry Schumer at Penn National in May 2012. He earned in excess of $40,000 over the next six months, then went on a four-month hiatus in late October. Since returning in March, Strong Resolve has struggled to be competitive.

“He had bled tremendously before,” said Rogers. “This BS that horses don’t bleed is insane. They actually bleed so much, they’re drowning. What she did was wrong, but all she was doing was trying to help the horse.”

Rogers said his wife “has never had a blemish on her record in 30 years. She’s worked very hard, and to have something like this happen is a bad call. She didn’t deserve that.”

I guess the stewards at Penn National or the Pennsylvania Horse Racing Commission will be the judge of that.

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  • G. Rarick

    Wow. Just wow. Pretty much everything that’s wrong with American racing and “training” wrapped up in one tidy story.

    • Guy Fleegman1

      Well said G Rarick…if someone has ANY common sense (which is in short supply today) this article stresses exactly what you wrote.

    • ziggypop

      Yep!

    • Hopefieldstables

      Gina, were we not recently told that “lasix prevents EIPH”. So how is this story even possible?

    • Stanley inman

      Gina,
      I’m nominating her and her husband
      HBPA poster horesepersons for 2013
      They care
      they deserve a medal

    • bob

      He said he had no rulings, He lied, He has 34. check it out.

      • oldbay

        He says his wife had no rulings…….. I think he might have had a positive for the elephant juice years ago.

        • Roisin

          His wife is not a trainer. Plus, she had no business medicating the horse. It is outrageous what goes on in the backstretch.

  • louisbille

    This is emblematic of the US in the 21st century as a whole: whatever ails you is not your fault, and there is a pill for every ill. Salvation in a syringe is now how horsemanship is defined. ‘Doing right by the horse’ in this case involves retirement, or at least a long spell of rest. Trish and Mike were instead trying to do right by their own bank accounts.

    • monica horn

      “Doing right by the horse’ in this case involves retirement” –Oh so very obvious, yet the Rogers still play dumb and expect people to actually believe that their ONLY recourse was to drug the animal…. in order to “help” it, of course.

    • raymond eichmann

      100%

    • http://www.theracehorseexperiment.com/ Maureen Tierney

      YES! The magic drug. The instant fix. This will go down in history as The Pharmaceutical Era. I tell my sons it will be the Age of Stupidity – as so many people take drugs wanting the perfect life, instantly, regardless of the long list of unpleasant and sometimes dangerous side effects. It is certainly not the Age of Reason!

    • Hossracergp

      Yeah, they hoped to get rich running a 12.5 claimer and figured risking their license and way to make a living was worth it. It had nothing at all to do with trying to relieve the horse’s discomfort.

      • http://www.theracehorseexperiment.com/ Maureen Tierney

        Well, if they weren’t trying to make money, why were they running the horse in the first place? Duh.

        • LaraHa

          i am curious how many trainers really make enough money to support the horse and the trainer and the owner?

          • http://www.theracehorseexperiment.com/ Maureen Tierney

            That’s an excellent question. The answer is all who don’t have other jobs. If you have a job and it doesn’t support you, you have no home, not enough food, and no fuel for your car. That is reality. If you are not making a living wage it is very hard to live. So any trainer who doesn’t live with their parents or girlfriend or whatever, drives a car, can get to the track, has clothes, etc. Is making a living. It is an unrealistic expectation in racing that trainers should be making so much more money than the average person. If you are a good judge of horseflesh you will make more money. If you are a poor judge, you will make less, and perhaps should not be in the business.

        • Hossracergp

          It’s their job……just like it is to train the rest of the horses in their stable. Duh. Your assertion is that they were doing this just to make money so they crossed the line to get one more race out of the horse. I disagree. They do what most trainers do….everything they can to allow the horse to do his job with inflicting the least amount of pain and discomfort. Splitting the Lasix dose or giving it closer to post time won’t help this horse. If he’s bleeding that bad….his racing career is finished. Everybody on the internet is a training expert but in real life some people actually win races.

          • http://www.theracehorseexperiment.com/ Maureen Tierney

            They crossed the line because they wanted to win, if you doubt that you are naive. If the horse needed extra lasix to run without bleeding he shouldn’t be racing. And I have won races, just not under my maiden name of Tierney. I have raced 3 of the horses I’ve owned and all 3 won for me. My first I bought for $300 because he had broken down with a suspensory injury. That same year he started 10 times for me in the span of 5 weeks, with 1 win, 2 seconds and 3 thirds. And remained sound, running even better the next year. The second horse I paid $400 for and ran him 4 times, for two thirds and a win. The last horse I paid $1,000 for as a yearling, he turned out to be a roarer who started as a 5 year old, 9 starts a win and a second. Not terrific stats, but with the $400 horse was 10 and had a locked ankle. All were wonderful horses and none of the required drugs to be sound. Though the first 2 did get pre-race bute – but not like today!

  • Darlene Allison Anders Sanner

    horse bleeds that badly it should not be racing

    • ziggypop

      That was my thought, exactly. The body is telling us something. Perhaps we need to stop the drugs and listen.

    • Cathy R

      I have bad asthma and get chronic sinus and lung infections….Can I stay home from work?

      • Beach

        Yes, if your work involves running a mile or so around a track. Trust me–you’ll probably code without medication, which could be illegal for this “work”. Thus, it’s probably better to find some other work. You can make that choice for yourself, the horse cannot. I’d bet he should be retired, and perhaps someone with decency and compassion will find the right decent and compassionate home for him. My prayers are with him.

      • slewcat

        That depends on you. However if your bleeding internally and I was your boss, I would suggest you going to Hershey Medical Center ASAP. Am sure the Doctors there wouldnt permit you to try out for the 440 meter time trails in 2 hours.

      • Tom Hickey

        Well, you might be in the wrong job if your job involved running. Change careers.

      • Roisin

        I can’t believe it !!!!

    • LaraHa

      that’s what i was thinking. so much for thinking of the horse first.

    • Harry

      This horse and horse like him should be turned out for a year and get a chance to heal not just give them more lasix if he’s as bad as he says he is then no matter how much lasix you give him isn’t going to help him! Think thats why he’s running so bad? Horses aren’t stupid they get the taste of blood and they shut down!!!!!!!!! So she has an unblimished record hmmmmmmm at least hasn’t been caught thats all did she just learn how to do this?????? Don’t think so she got caught and now it’s time to pay the piper!!!!!!!!!!! Think hubby may need a new assistant????? But by the rules he’s response able for his help even if it’s his wife It’s a trainer’s responsability rule for his barn and help!!!!!!!!!! So by the rules of racing he should be gone for the help doing this and she’s gone for having a needle and syringe and lasix on her!!!!!!!! So let’s see if the stewards do the right thing!!!!!!!!!

      • Darlene Allison Anders Sanner

        Yes you are so right about the trainer responsability rule Hopefully there will be a follow up story as to what penalties are handed down, if any. Course still waiting for something to be charged on the trainer in Florida whose vet was caught in process of injecting horse knees with nerve block Vet got banned No charges I am aware of brought against trainer

    • Roisin

      My first thought also. The owner, Dr. Barry Schumer needs to step up and do the right thing here.

      • betterthannothing

        Owners and trainers are usually a perfect match.

  • Stephanie

    Well, why don’t they try to help the horse by retiring him?

  • jojo

    Sounds to me that the RIGHT think to do is RETIRE him from racing. More drugs so he can run isn’t helping him!! RIDICULOUSNESS.

  • Undine

    I agree with all these earlier comments. I really fear for the future of that horse.

    • LaraHa

      since we know very few trainers retire or retrain their race horses that can no longer race, i too fear for the future of that horse.

  • betterthannothing

    “She
    was just trying to do right by the horse.”
    “She was trying to help the horse, that’s all she was doing…”
    “If you like your horses, you want to do right for them,”
    “…but all she was doing was trying to help the horse.”

    HYPOCRITE FOOL ABUSER

    Thanks to the Paulick Report the decay of American racing is being exposed, one sad report at a time, hopefully not for naught. Race horses need strong protection from an authority solely dedicated to their welfare and safety.

    • 14151617

      If the poor horse bleeds that bad and al;most drowns he is being abused by being at the track period.Wasn’t trying to help that animal only trying to get him through another race and maybe make a dollar.
      This horse should be removed from these people today and let alone for a while then if and only if he is able use in some other form.Trail horse,pleasure horse therapy horse.
      What ever him destroyed lungs give him a chance to do and if none of that is resonable enough for him to do .He will make someone a beautiful pasture ornament.
      Horse Spirits watch over him until he can be move from harms way.

      • Roisin

        You are right. Also, at this point the horse probably has permanent lung damage from being such a bleeder. In which case, even if a big dose of Lasix did prevent or cut down on bleeding he would be compromised because of poor lung function from the damage.

    • http://www.theracehorseexperiment.com/ Maureen Tierney

      Absolutely. As said my many, if she wanted to do right by the horse and he bleeds through medication, which is what seems to be stated, then retire him.

  • Wally

    Wow, doesn’t sound good for them considering don Robertson just got two years for just possessing needles/syringes. Many vets recommend not giving all the lasix at once or injecting into the muscle for slow release. This is not a possibility with commission vets administering the medication.

    I am all for 3rd party vets giving lasix to prevent race day admin of other drugs. A horse that you have to go to these extremes for is not worth the risk. Other jurisdictions still allow adjunct (wv, md). Not sure for how long though. Maybe these tracks or a rest would be in order here as it is not worth the risk.

    • 14151617

      Wally,Wally,Wally.Not worth the risk to the trainer or the poor horse who by their own statement is drowning in its own blood.Give it some morse drugs and run it anyway.
      This is when DRUGS are bad not good.

      • Wally

        I don’t know what part of my post makes you think I condone this. I am for keeping Lasix as an option, not continuing with a horse who is beyond that.sounds like this horse is beyond this. If I have a horse that bleeds out the nose, it goes to the farm. I have had owners then send the horse to another trainer. It never works out to keep going.

        If the trainer was actually giving Lasix, we don’t know. I’m sure they are under some pressure since the owner paid 25k for the horse and gave it time off. I’m sure they will look back at this as a mistake and not worth it.

        • nu-fan

          Some owners should find some other interests other than horses–or, possibly, any living creatures. A lot is thrown back at the trainers but where are the owners in all of this? Shouldn’t they be held responsible for some of the decisions that are obviously not being made in the best interests of the welfare of the horses? They seem to always get off the hook. Why?

        • 14151617

          Never said anything about you condoning anything.Just asking a question about the risk to whom the horse or the trainer.

          Never mind Wally.Either I cannot express myself clearly or you aren’t comprehending what I am writing.
          Done with this conversation it is getting us no where.

          • Lexington 3

            It’s the former.

  • Ida Lee

    OK…let’s take up a collection here so we can BUY THESE IDIOTS A CLUE!! If this is how they think, they should not be allowed anywhere near a living thing and this includes plants….

    • Guy Fleegman1

      You cannot buy or give idiots anything that will help them Ida…

  • Jumpjockey1

    Penn is the most crooked track in the country. I had a horse I trained entered to run , I was not running on Lasix or any other medication . I shipped 4 hours up to run my horse and arrived 30 mins before the 1st race even though my filly was running in the last that night . I got scratched as I reached the gate as I wasn’t there for Lasix time .. Never in my life have I seen a place so badly run, when I tried to talk to the stewards to explain I wasn’t running on Lasix the one who answed the phone simply shouted and hung up .. I was irate so I went looking for the stewards office to see if the same steward wanted to be as ignorant in person . And yes they were amazingly even ruder . The reason they gave me was that they scratched me on the Lasix rule as the one state vet leaves by a certain time and the other 2 who give Lasix are not qualified to watch a horse jog to evaluate if it is sound, I asked again if a vet is not qualified to see if a horse is lame then why are they vets and who the hell hired them ? It’s impossible to argue with ignorance and its also impossible to deal with people who have different rules for different people . That’s what’s wrong with our game, people who try do the right thing get penalized while crooks a free pass and a slap on the wrist as the tracks are too afraid to lose the big guys as it will shrink their fields .. It’s a joke if a horse is that bad of a bleeder then instead of sticking him with a needle stick him in a field and let him be a horse.. Just a thought..

    • Wally

      Wow. Sounds like you missed the jog which has nothing to do with lasix. One vet that does the jogs there is a real witch. She has no idea how to work with or talk to people. If she did, she would have called the racing office and had someone reach out to you. If it was her, she probably took pleasure in what happened to you. The stewards back her up. This arrogance is the reason why a track with easy racing and one of the best purse structures in the business has short fields. Many tracks hav a deadline even if your not on lasix but they could have worked with you. But then she couldn’t leave in time, god forbid.

      • Jumpjockey1

        Wally I’m sure they could have picked any reason but they chose the missed the Lasix deadline to hang their hat on .. It’s sad that racing has come to this , when tracks only care about filling their casinos and neglect their grandstands we all lose. My problem was as you stated , it was handled terribly and with extreme rudeness . Penn is a den of crooks who have no interest within their controlling bodies to see it become more than just that ..

    • Wally

      Oh, and the vets that do the lasix are outsourced. I don’t think they work for the track. Maybe they have some kind of contract. They are the same vets that are on call for emergencies on race nights which penn didn’t have before. They are actually really qualified, they scope, treat colics and whatever else comes up and are WONDERFUL.

      The vets that do the jog work for someone else, possibly the racing commission. So, it was probably an issue of liability. They probably aren’t trained in the pre race jog process. The jog vets may also carry around info on individual horses so they keep track of old ailments. These vets wouldn’t have that.

      I still think they could have called you before she left though…

    • oldbay

      Jumpjockey1, your anger toward Penn is your mistake, you should hand in your Trainers license, because the part before you sign is that you have read and know all of the rules of racing. Penn and all tracks have in their condition book track rules for you to read. From Penn condition book: “ALL NON-LASIX HORSES shipping in must be in the Receiving Barn 1 HOUR PRIOR TO THE PUBLISHED POST TIME FOR THE FIRST RACE for a pre-race examination.” Wrong time to bash penn when they might have done something right by catching a cheater. Maybe one too many falls on the head has you a little slow.

      • jumpjockey1

        I shipped in last fall and ran off the van arriving 90 mins before post with the same horse and had no problem.. I guess I’m not as smart as you but I will survive ..

        • Wally

          They do a very bad job of communicating. Their rule book is outdated and they only distribute an “unofficial” copy. The book says horses can have 2 mcg Bute which is not true as two year olds can’t. Another part of the book says two year olds can’t have anything which isn’t true since they changed the rule back to allow Lasix. Total mess and no accountability.

        • Janet delcastillo

          For those of us that ship in, we always have a problem with traffic…that being said, the cell phone has been a great asset. When I have been stuck in traffic, I have been able to call the stewards at Tampa Bay Downs, and they have been good about understanding the issue…my horses not being on lasix. I would hope that the stewards at Penn as well as other tracks would also take that into consideration. We little guys need some rational help! You know how bad I-95 can be! I can understand how upsetting it must have been for Jumpjockey! and what an expense! I would hope that the Stewards think about the “other side of the story..getting the horse loaded and to the track with plenty of time to spare..in spite of being late…their job is to take all the facts into consideration. This business is getting tougher and tougher. It seems that there could be some leniency …

        • oldbay

          do you recall what race you were in? my guess 99% of the time a jump jockey has a horse it is a turf horse. Penn runs the turf races early because of no lighting on turf course. If you were in the 1st or 2nd that night then you were 1 hour before post of the first race, that might be why you had no problem because you accidentally followed the rules. Sorry about your luck but you had no one to blame but yourself.

      • Susan

        Oldbay, I concur. The condition book alerts a trainer to the fact there is an implied warranty by the trainer in entry of any horse. There have been numerous changes in regulations and track policies and it is the trainer’s responsibility to stay on top of them. The stewards, state &track vets are not adversaries. A brief phone call to any of them ahead of time would have provided clarification and avoided a scratch. As humans do, all trainers make mistakes and there are only two options to prevent a recurrence: 1) Own the mistake and learn from it, or 2) Blame someone or something else. However the only way to maintain that blameless paper crown of innocence by the righteous is retirement.

    • Lynn

      Penn wants slots and casino only. Horse Racing helped get them going, but now they want nothing to do with Horse Racing.

      Not only does Penn try it best to make things as difficult and miserable as possible at their track in Grantville PA., they do the same Charlestown in West Virginia. This is all done by design to make people get out of horse racing, so that all is left is the casino. At Penn and CT if there are no races that are written for your horses, or if they are written but are not filling, don’t dare take your horse some place to race. At CT (under Eric Zimny and his Gestapo Tactics) even if you want to take your horse to the farm to rest or even retirement, first you must seek permission.

    • http://www.theracehorseexperiment.com/ Maureen Tierney

      When you ship in, it’s clearly stated by each track what time you have to be there. It’s not up to you. Just another example of racing people ignoring rules and doing what they want, then whining when they get penalized. Horses need to be on site before vet check time.

      • jumpjockey1

        I understand rules are in place . But to tell the whole story I hit traffic which can happen to anyone . Horse ID called me to ask if I was bringing an updated coggins I told him I was and informed him about my traffic concerns . I was told not to worry once I was still coming . I was 15 minutes late even after informing horse ID . When I tried explaining this to the gracious stewards I was told that “horse ID doesn’t run this fucking track we do ” so I’m sorry when people do try do things right and still get screwed I have a problem .. I’ve been in racing 16 years and am not a cry baby by any means . But I do believe in working with people . And let’s not get carried away this is still Penn national where every 3 months some new scandal breaks . Be it a slaughter issue a racing office issue or maybe the feds just had nothing else on and decided to go check the place out for fun ..

        • http://www.theracehorseexperiment.com/ Maureen Tierney

          Why you listened to track ID, I don’t know. If you had called stewards it would have been different. If you have been in racing 16 years (or had anything to do with beaurocracy in any form) you should know better than to say something like that to people in power. I feel your pain, but being late is being late. If you know the area you should be aware of traffic If you got there just before the first race, you were more than 15 minutes late.

  • Lakick

    Slippery slope of logic…a little more Lasix for bleeding, a little more Bute for pain, a little more clenbuterol for breathing a little more medication. Where do you draw the line? All to “help” the horse!!! Someone please explain!

    • Roisin

      Good point. I never understood why more of the drug is given when the ” normal” or does is not working. And Lasix does not help all bleeders.

  • Jamie Coughlin

    Horse is obviously saying I need a new career, NOT break the rules and drug me illegally. Not that it seems to have made any difference anyway.

  • Hopefieldstables

    Lets see; you break the rules but its really in fact “a bad call” and the perpetrator does not “deserve that”

    So the steward who reported it is actually the one in the wrong ?

    This really is racing in the twilight zone.

  • Beach

    Here’s a thought; wish I could execute it–the next time this horse runs in a claimer, someone with money and sense ought to claim him, then retire him and find him a home. Wonder if MidAtlantic Horse Rescue or someone like that could retrain and place him…

  • Patricia Jones

    simple no horses no races the horse comes first

  • Christy Heffner

    Seriously? She wants to do right by her horse? THEN RETIRE HIM. Bleeders shouldn’t be racing. Or breeding. JC. Do these people really think people are stoopid enough to fall for that?

  • Bubba

    Seems like people here are knocking Penn…. They are the only track in the mid Atlantic that have a visible investigative team in the barn area once treatment times start. They can’t be everywhere and do put more pressure on the receiving barn than in regular barns but they are trying. People want to knock them and want all of the answers, step back and allow the process, commenting could only hurt their case. (something Mike Rogers should of thought about before he commented, honesty in this game will only hurt you, look at Don Robertson at Delaware who admitted the needles and syringes were his got two years, but if you get multiple steroid positives you only get 20 days, Don told truth, Steroid denied.) But Penn deserves a pat on the back not a knock against. Lasix??? sure hope they had it tested.

    • Wally

      One week per steroid positive is a joke. Now he has two more pending. Cartagena got a Bute overage when new yawker broke the track record. Only a small fine for a first offense which it was not. Seems like they hang the little guy to make an example and sweep the serious stuff under the rug.

  • Been There-Done That

    Reading between the lines, I can’t help but think the most salient point of this article can be attributed to the quote from the trainer, “we’re not allowed to use any adjunct medication”.
    Amicar (aminocaproic acid) and Premarin (conjugated estrogens) are very efficacious when used in concert with Lasix (furosemide) as a prophylaxis in treating exercise induced pulmonary hemorrhage (bleeding in the lungs).

    I sincerely believe that Strong Resolve does have issues, relative to chronic bleeding, to the point that Lasix, by itself, cannot control the incidence of epistaxis.
    Having said that, my focus now becomes the attempt to administer 2cc’s of Lasix 2 hours prior to the running of the race. The one and ONLY reason racing commissions have adopted the 4 hour Lasix rule is so as to not dilute the post race urine sample! If trainers were permitted to have Lasix administered at the same time they “hang the bridle”, I can only imagine what else could/would be masked by the diluted urine.

  • dr. ichabod

    perfect example of investigative journalism at its worst

    • Barry Irwin

      Explain yourself please.

      • dr. ichabod

        they pick and choose it all depends on who you are

        • betterthannothing

          From Baffert to Rogers… Not enough diversity for ya?

        • Barry Irwin

          Ichabod, you need to Crane your neck around because Paulick plays no favorites.

  • Mimi Hunter

    Not only should that horse be retired, the trainer [and his wife] should get a good long layoff to think things over. I really hope Penn National follows through and stomps with both feet. The attitude of the trainer exemplifies what is wrong with racing in this country.

  • guest

    The sport of kings? I almost wish it were. At least kings and queens can buy cutting edge drugs and proficient drug administrators.,,, Much worse, the majority of this so-called “sport” is in the hands of red-neck morons with no business holding a license, in this country. Trying to eek out a few extra dollars on the backs of a few dead beat horses? Just Stop.

  • Teresa Haefner Holman

    There are other things that work better for bleeders that they CAN use. I call it a bull$hit excuse. She got caught and that’s all they could come up with. If they horse bleeds that bad then do the right thing by the horse and retire him.

    • Wally

      Please share your other remedies. A lot of people get on here and say there are other legal things that wor. I would think the person who knew the solution would be a billionaire. Not trying to be rude, really curious.

      • Teresa Haefner Holman

        Amongst other things there are Chinese Herbals that work extremely well for bleeders. Lasix is better for covering things up than for anything else. It’s simply a diuretic. All stables have bleeders some stables do better than others.

        • Wally

          I wish what you are saying is true, but it is not. Lasix no longer hides anything when given legally 3-4 hrs out. Chinese herbs make you feel like u are doing good but they don’t work

          • Teresa Haefner Holman

            You are entitled to your opinion. Chinese herbs do work and so does accupuncture. Maintaining a horse on herbals and accupuncture is more expensive than Lasix hence the reason they use the lasix. It’s not rocket science it’s a diuretic. It’s not like Lasix is the only diuretic. Lasix does more harm than good and a lot of horses are allergic to it. JMO

          • Old Timer

            HELLO but your Chinese herbs that you say work, well they have a DRUG in them that makes them work, i.e. you are CHEATING by using them. That’s the whole problem with all the anti Lasix going around, “I know what works better….” yeah another illegal, unproven, b.s. remedy.

            Lasix works and is scientifically proven to work in the prevention of EIPH, and the rules surrounding it are put in place for a reason.

          • Larry Ensor

            IME Lasix does not prevent bleeding it just lessens the event. It does not prevent nor cure it. Horses that “bleed through it” should be retired. I understand the costs associated with this statement and the ramifications on some horses and owners. Myself included. Unlike many others we put our money where our mouth is. I have been doing the “walk” for many years. I am not quite an “old timer” yet but not far away. As to those that say it is “good” for the horse, or it is doing right by the horse. Well, I am not so sure about that. But it is the cheapest legal performance enhancing med out there that’s good for the wallet.

          • Hopefieldstables

            I find your comments illuminating. Thanks for sharing.

          • Old Timer

            Well Larry you are incorrect in your statement “It does not prevent…”. It does prevent in some horses altogether, and lessens the degree of bleeding in others. Again, this is proven fact via the South African study and not anecdotal testimony. The study is what many in the scientific community have called the best study ever conducted involving thoroughbred racing.

            I never said lasix cures EIPH. As far as I have ever heard, there is no cure, other than a horse not running at all, and that goes for any breed of horse (TB, QH, Stand, Paint, Arabian, etc.)

            My final and most important point is this: I am sure that by preventing or lessening the degree of bleeding in a horses lungs, or stopping a case of epistaxis from occurring, and that I am doing “good” for the horse.

          • Larry Ensor

            I agree you have a right to your opinion. But for people to take you seriously you need to back it up with direct experience and examples of. I also suggest being more specific. The Chinese have been working with herbs for 1000s of years and there are 1000s out there. But I would also bet that if you were to go to a Chinese hospital these days there would be far more modern approach to many things then the use of traditional herbs and practices.
            Do you or have you owned, trained or directly worked with racehorses. If so please tell us what you think has worked and what percentage of horses it has worked on.
            I hate having to give our flat horses Lasix and allow it only because I like others believe it to be performance enhancing. As far as I am concerned it should be banned tomorrow and let the chips fall as they will. But I also understand we don’t live in a perfect world.
            For the record I have tried the “holistic” approach paying as much as $120 per dose (Lasix $20+-) for “Chinese herbs” sadly it had no effect. I guess we are just lucky because the vast majority of our horses do not bleed above what is to be expected after a race. Nor do the Steeplechase horses that I train who do not run on Lasix but did when they were on the flat track.
            I am a big fan of acupuncture and have convinced other trainers/owners of its merit. for many things that have been traditionally treated with pharmaceuticals. But have yet to find it effective for bleeding. If you know of an acupuncturist that knows the “sweet spot” please pass their name on I am willing to give it a try. Acupuncturist are very difficult to find at the race track. The main problem is due to licensing requirements at the racetrack. The racetrack will only grant a license to acupuncturist that have been certified by the AVMA. It is my understanding that the AVMA will only “certify” veterinarians. That’s a lot of expensive schooling just to do acupuncture. Pretty self serving IMO. When our horses undergo treatment at our farm it cost around $100-125 and the acupuncturist works with them for over 1 hour each. A race track vet can make a lot more then that in one hour. Can you blame them? I have worked with “non certified” acupuncturist that know their trade and expertise better then vet schooled newbie’s. But they can not practice at the racetrack. So, I have pick up and bring them to the farm to treat and take back. Time consuming and expensive but IMO well worth it.

        • betterthannothing

          There are so many herbs, could you please name those that prevent bleeding and how they work?

          Allegedly, some European trainers used onions to prevent bleeding.

  • stixnstones42

    I thought my horse was too sore to win the other day, so I gave him a massive shot of bute on
    the way to the paddock. He won and I collected my bet. But, you see. I had to do it because I love my horse.

  • Richard C

    In boxing, when a fighter is badly bleeding — the ring physician can overrule the trainer and boxer & stop the fight. Why would this be different with a bleeder in horse racing…especially when that athlete can’t say, “No Mas”?

    • Wally

      It actually is this way in racing. You get put on the bleeders list and each time the forced time off gets longer until the horse is banned permenantly.

  • Barry Irwin

    This reminds of the old TV program called “Traffic Court.” The excuses used by people to justify aberrant behavior are very entertaining. The manner in which some miscreants turn the truth around to suit themselves can be quite comical. If these people really want to jazz up the proceedings, during any impending hearing they should consider having The Coasters tune “Charlie Brown” being played in the background, which includes the timely lyric “Why’s everybody always pickin’ on me.”

    • Janet delcastillo

      The term “helping the horse” has been severely misused…as well as the term “therapeutic ” medications…unfortunately part of “therapeutic medications” includes rest after giving the medication…not running three days later.

  • Barbara Wood

    For one thing, if it were that necessary for the horse to have the Lasix, it is the trainer’s job to administer it within the rules. For another, I would seriously question racing (much less breeding) a horse who is that internally distressed. We are passing down genetic weaknesses, and no one will stop it. Claiming to be “for the horse” is ridiculous. This horse needs better care than that.

  • Nayrod

    Not every horse is meant to race, breed etc., etc. To me this is a sign this horse needs another profession. People think there helping but there only adding to the drug problem. I’m a horse person and been around the business about 30 years. His wife knew exactly what she was doing and knew the consequences. I think she needs to stay away from the training aspect of her husbands barn!

    • Wally

      You don’t think her husband knew about it?

      • Nayrod

        Of course but it’s his license that will be affected. You can’t stop or catch every trainer giving drugs. At least she was caught and hopefully they will keep an eye on him from now on or not!

  • Hossracergp

    Strong Resolve is a gelding so we don’t have to worry about him passing on his bleeding gene although perhaps we should go find his sire Elusive Quality and cut his testicles off to stop the bleeding gene from being perpetuated.

  • pesposito

    It is very dangerous to run a horse that bleeds through Lasix. I have seen them drown in their own blood on the racetrack and never finish the race. It is inexcusable and has to do with greed not helping the horse. Helping the horse would be retiring him.

  • genuinecat

    Give the Horse Racing industry and it’s people a break. Some of your comments are over the top. You watch too much TV? Man created these magnificent equine athletes for racing hundreds of years ago. There nothing natural about it!!! We created this and so many other colorful, draft cross with fancy names… . Mrs. Rogers wouldn’t have commented this “wrong act” if PA would allow other help for bleeders. In other States they help bleeders by allowing adjunct medications for horses who bleed. It can’t make them faster. But it can prevent them from choking on their own blood. Who’s worrying about the drugs on the fields and in locker rooms of the NFL. SHhh…

  • Dianne

    i THINK PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT INVOLVED IN RACING SHOULD NOT COMMENT. mOST PINK PANTIES DONT KNOW A THING ABOUT RACING AND WHATS INVOLVED. IT IS NOT LIKE TAKING A GALLOP THRU THE TRAILS, BESIDE WHICH LASIX DOES NOT REALLY STOP BLEEDING. eVEN HORSES THAT RUN LOOSE IN THE FIELD CAN HAVE EIPH. . NO MED’S NO RACING. THEY ARE ATHLETES JUST LIKE PEOPLE THEY TRAIN EVERYDAY,BOUND TO HAVE A FEW TINGS WRONG. SO DON’T YOU TAKE AN ASPRIN OR AND ADVIL. HOWEVER SHE SHOULD NOT ADMINISTERED THE MED HERSELF. DEFINATLY AGAINST THE RULES, SO SHE WILL PAY THE PRICE FORTHAT.

    • LaraHa

      dianne, could you please turn off the caps lock when writing messages. they are very hard to read and i get lost in trying to understand what you are saying. all caps is a way of internet shouting. :-)

  • Jay Stone

    This forum seems to be getting away from the real point. These people have no right administering Lasix themselves. They have no right being in possession of hypodermic syringes. Whatever the time frame they should be thrown off the track immediately. Every state has their own rules for ship ins. Most are flexible if there is a traffic problem but any trainer that doesn’t know the protocol deserves to be scratched. Doing business with these vets in Florida is an easy procedure and as long as you are honest with them they will usually go out of their way to help you. The problem that exists is when you lie to them or do something that risks the welfare of the horse.This is when they should make it tough on the trainer that deserves to be reprimanded.

  • Liz

    If the horse is that bad of a bleeder then the horse shouldn’t be running in the first place. I understand that all horses bleed in varying amounts just as human runners also bleed to varying degrees. The thing is, if you are a bad bleeder you need to take time off and heal or find a new career that is less demanding. Every time a horse bleeds it makes that horse more likely to bleed in the future if time is not taken for it to heal properly. Sounds like the stewards made the right call here. Lasix/Salix does help prevent bleeding however it is also a diuretic. Personally I would rather be well hydrated before running a race than being overly dehydrated which is the greater of two evils in my opinion.

  • Ruffian

    So how is it that the horse in question, Strong Resolve, along with a stablemate, was permitted to run in tonight’s 2nd race at Presque Isle Downs? Stewards, anyone?

  • sinking ship

    Let’s face it – Penn National did nothing when its leading owner, Tom McClay, had one of his horses end up in a kill buyer’s pen, so what makes people here think they’re going to do something about this. All talk, no action.

  • flahorsedentist

    The comments by some are a little over the top. It wasn’t some stimulant. It wasn’t a prohibited substance. I have know Mike and Trish for over twenty years. I just don’t think this is a capital offense. I certainly hope that the punishment fits the infraction.

    • Tony

      Dude- The rule in PA is that lasix is given by a racing commission vet- no exceptions- Trainers are not allowed to have injectable drugs , needles and syringes on the back stretch. Mike and Trish know this, they took a shot, got caught- Gotta do the time

  • Bill Casner

    Why was SHE giving lasix 2 hours out? Why was it not being administered by a licensed vet?

    Probable answer–Furosemide given 2hrs out has increased performance enhancement. You get the advantage of weight loss and blood buffering without excessive electrolyte loss (potassium and calcium). This is why the 4hr rule was implemented and to diminish the opportunity for “adjunct meds” in the same needle. A licensed vet would be violating the rules if they gave it inside the 4hr. window–2hrs would be a blatant violation (reference Dutrow’s disqualification in Maryland last year).
    Here is an excerpt from this years JC Roundtable in reference to Ky.’s current post race test results now that lasix is being administer by state vets compared it to years prior.

    “Dr. Mary Scollay, the Equine Medical Director of the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission and a regulatory vet for 25 years was shocked by what she learned. The concentration of Lasix in post race samples dropped 30%, meaning private vets had been giving Lasix close to an hour or more closer to the race. The four hour rule had been tossed aside. And when the state vets started going around, they’d get requests to give Lasix in the muscle or other drugs all together. “

    • Barry Irwin

      Bill, do you not understand that the lady was just trying to be kind to the horse? Sheesh!

  • Bill Casner

    Why was SHE giving lasix 2 hours out? Why was it not being administered by a licensed vet?

    Probable answer–Furosemide given 2hrs out has increased performance enhancement. You get the advantage of weight loss and blood buffering without excessive electrolyte loss (potassium and calcium). This is why the 4hr rule was implemented and to diminish the opportunity for “adjunct meds” in the same needle. A licensed vet would be violating the rules if they gave it inside the 4hr. window–2hrs would be a blatant violation (reference Dutrow’s disqualification in Maryland last year).
    Here is an excerpt from this years JC Roundtable in reference to Ky.’s current post race test results now that lasix is being administer by state vets compared it to years prior.

    “Dr. Mary Scollay, the Equine Medical Director of the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission and a regulatory vet for 25 years was shocked by what she learned. The concentration of Lasix in post race samples dropped 30%, meaning private vets had been giving Lasix close to an hour or more closer to the race. The four hour rule had been tossed aside. And when the state vets started going around, they’d get requests to give Lasix in the muscle or other drugs all together. “

  • SaratogaSid

    Obviously, Lasix should be banned altogether as it is in Australia, Europe, and Asia where there are significantly fewer breakdowns. Where Lasix is allowed to be injected hours before racing there are 4x more breakdowns. Those who support Lasix use apparently do not mind breakdowns so much, but many are unhappy with the increased breakdowns in America. Lasix facilitates and rewards excessive drug use to keep horses racing when they should be rested, or better yet, properly trained, developed, and conditioned before racing in the first place.

    • betterthannothing

      Sad but so true!

  • Randy

    What was she doing with a syringe to begin with strike 1, trying to give someone else horse a shot strike 2, doing something stupid strike 3!

  • Ruffian

    And Rogers wins for fun in tonight’s second at Penn, with a favorite. Caution to the wind perhaps?

  • Kyrydr

    All I can say is, that story don’t pass the smell test !

  • J Wells

    If a horse bleeds that badly then maybe it shouldn’t be racing!

  • MP

    That is why we need these drugs to be available, they allow a horse such as this to be able to race, no different from a human with asthma being able to function with an inhaler. You people that dont understand the horse business that say “this horse shouldn’t be racing” are naive. You have no solution, why do you think there are so many that end up going to slaughter!!! Wake up people, this is a business, why dont you do gooders change the tax laws back to being a hobby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • http://www.theracehorseexperiment.com/ Maureen Tierney

      Why don’t you people who advocate pushing horses to death with drugs pick a different industry – where the innocent victims are not living creatures. Car racing for example.

  • Robert Hirschle

    If the horse bleeds that badly, he shouldn’t be racing in the first place! If you really want to help the horse, stop racing him.

  • Blitz

    Mike Rogers and his wife received a 180 day suspension from the stewards at Penn National for “trying to do the right thing for the horse.” Hopefully they, and others will learn a lesson from this outcome.

  • David

    So let’s summarize this:

    a) she attempted to administer medication outside the administration window.

    b) she was the only one that knew that the horse would be getting a little help that evening.

    c) on previous occasions (according to the indictment) she communicated information not known to the public, possibly other instances of medicating her horses.

    d) again according to the incitement someone outside Penn (at a simulcast facility) potentially benefited from this knowledge.

    And this shouldn’t be a big deal?

    If the Rogers’ REALLY think this is no big deal (“If you like your horses, you want to do right for them”) then they should add the charge of gross stupidity to the complaint.

  • pesposito

    This would explain why Patricia Rogers had nothing happen to her when she was caught in August. They were waiting for the big one.

  • kate bowen

    “He had bled tremendously before,” said Rogers. “This BS that horses don’t bleed is insane. They actually bleed so much, they’re drowning. What she did was wrong, but all she was doing was trying to help the horse.”…Help the Horse??? Are you kidding me? How about you don’t race it if you are so concerned about its health?? There are no horse lovers out at Penn National, there are only horse people who love money and the poor horses be damned.

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