Not welcome at Remington: Dutrow horse changes hands for Oklahoma Derby

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Racing fans might be scratching their heads when they see William Cesare listed as trainer of Willy Beamin in Saturday’s $400,000 Oklahoma Derby at Remington Park.

Since the 3-year-old gelding by Suave was claimed by Rick Dutrow for $25,000 on March 23 on behalf of owner James Riccio, he’s done nothing wrong. Willy Beamin has won five consecutive races for Dutrow and Riccio: two allowance events, two stakes restricted to New York-breds, and the Grade 1 King’s Bishop Stakes at Saratoga.

Why, then, is Cesare replacing Dutrow as trainer?

It might have something to do with the fact Kentucky denied Dutrow a license when he applied for one in 2011. The Kentucky Horse Racing Commission cited misrepresentations by Dutrow and said his conduct was not in the best interests of racing. Dutrow is facing a 10-year ban by the New York State Racing and Wagering Board. He’s appealed the suspension and continues to train in New York.

However, because of the action of the Kentucky commission, states that recognize other racing commission actions and reciprocate on suspensions and license revocation may not give Dutrow a trainer’s license.

Furthermore, Remington Park president Scott Wells told the Paulick Report Dutrow would not be welcome at the Oklahoma City track. He said Remington would have exercised its right to private property exclusions if Dutrow were licensed in Oklahoma.

According to Mary Ann Roberts, counsel for the Oklahoma Horse Racing Commission, Dutrow did not apply for a license.  Roberts said Cesare was issued a trainers’ license on Wednesday.

“With regard to Willy Beamin,” Roberts told the Paulick Report, “Mr. Cesare was the trainer of record for the horse when the horse was nominated for the race.  Mr. Cesare was the trainer of record when the horse was entered in the race.  I have been advised that the horse is currently under the care and custody of Mr. Cesare and/or his staff at Remington Park.”

That all may be technically correct, but allowing Willy Beamin to race in the Oklahoma Derby for what appears to be a temporary trainer allows Dutrow to violate the spirit of Kentucky’s decision to deny him a license.

That’s nothing new for Oklahoma.

Last year, Redeemed shipped to Remington to win the Oklahoma Derby in the name of trainer Tony Dutrow, Rick’s brother. In the race before and after the Oklahoma Derby, Redeemed was trained by Rick Dutrow.

Roberts, the Oklahoma Horse Racing Commission’s counsel, noted that Tony Dutrow’s Oklahoma license expired at the end of 2011.

Earlier this year, the Dutrow brothers were involved in a case where I Want Revenge was sent from New York to West Virginia to race. He had previously been trained by Rick Dutrow but Tony Dutrow was listed as trainer when the horse was entered to race.

West Virginia stewards looked into who was the actual trainer of I Want Revenge and determined it was Rick Dutrow. He was not licensed in West Virginia. As a result, stewards scratched I Want Revenge. He has not run since.

The Oklahoma Horse Racing Commission doesn’t appear to really care who the actual trainer of Willy Beamin is. If the horse runs in the name of William Cesare and then returns to the barn of Dutrow, this racing commission will be complicit in permitting Dutrow to skirt the spirit of horse racing rules and regulations.

I can’t really blame Dutrow or owner James Riccio for this maneuver. I do blame the Oklahoma Horse Racing Commission for letting them get away with it.

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  • ktq1

    Just plain wrong.  Proof yet again that this sport is a dog until it gets a unified body with teeth.

  • ktq1

    Just plain wrong.  Proof yet again that this sport is a dog until it gets a unified body with teeth.

  • Mike

    Could not agree more.

    • Treyorr0124

      It goes on in the cutting horse world,the steeple chase races,the Barrel racing,The baseball,football and every other sport.Sp what is the difference.The whole system is whack.How can a team owner pay a dog fighting quarterback  about $30 million a year for throwing a football.YET a Super hear Surgeon that can actually operate on a baby or a President of the USA and that Doctor wont make $30 million in his whole life.Tell me which is ore crooked.The Horse racing drugs or the BS with pro referees and footbal/baseball/basketball players.The whole system is screwed up!

      • James Staples

        FOLLOWING OUR GOVERMENTS LEAD!!!…ty…

  • Mike

    Could not agree more.

  • No Penalties in Horse Racing

    I hope the IRS checks to see if Cesare claims the % he is likely to get as the result of this.  If not, someone should ask them to look into it next year.

  • No Penalties in Horse Racing

    I hope the IRS checks to see if Cesare claims the % he is likely to get as the result of this.  If not, someone should ask them to look into it next year.

  • No Penalties in Horse Racing

    Hey Ms. Roberts, if you take what horseman say at face value you might as well have your head buried in the sand.

  • No Penalties in Horse Racing

    Hey Ms. Roberts, if you take what horseman say at face value you might as well have your head buried in the sand.

  • Memories of Puchi

    this is just a complicit as an assistant trainer taking over the barn of a banned trainer (most recent high profile example would be Leandro Mora and Doug O’Neill)

  • Memories of Puchi

    this is just a complicit as an assistant trainer taking over the barn of a banned trainer (most recent high profile example would be Leandro Mora and Doug O’Neill)

  • Yo soy fiesta

    Doesn’t make a lot of sense to draw attention to yourself by grandstanding “Dutrow ain’t welcome round here” and then once you have everyone’s attention let his horse run under a shadow trainer. My grandpa had a phrase for this, it involved a gentleman sitting on his own “jewels” if I remember correctly.

  • Yo soy fiesta

    Doesn’t make a lot of sense to draw attention to yourself by grandstanding “Dutrow ain’t welcome round here” and then once you have everyone’s attention let his horse run under a shadow trainer. My grandpa had a phrase for this, it involved a gentleman sitting on his own “jewels” if I remember correctly.

  • top candidate

    sigh….. I have said it a hundred times…. anything goes in TB racing…. getting bored with this….

  • top candidate

    sigh….. I have said it a hundred times…. anything goes in TB racing…. getting bored with this….

  • Don Reed

    THANK YOU Remington Park!

    We’ve been screaming
    about what a totally unacceptable louse Dutrow is, for the sport of American
    racing.  Since at least 2008.  That’s four years of lungs.

    But, with the exception
    of Kentucky’s
    “Get Lost” – we can’t get rid of this jackass!

    So. Should WB hit the
    board, who is the check made out to?

    Doesn’t matter; WB won’t
    win.

    Just remember to give “Sleazy
    Caesar” the bill for the plane necessary to get WB out to Oklahoma, as a reward
    for this charade.

    • TrackEyes

      Mr. Reed, I am an avid reader of the Paulick Report and have come across comments posted that are at times offensive. Mr Dutrow for what ever infractions he have committed, and Mr. Caesar who in this scenario is being attacked for an act that is legal as far as paperwork goes and Remington Park approved (whether you or john public may think otherwise), I would like to believe that one can make a point without having to call someone a ‘Louse’ ‘Jackass!’ or ‘Sleazy’. 

      Your frustration as with the rest of us is understandable, but let us not loose our own civility in which we express ourselves. 

      To the ‘Paulick Report’ – In the past you have censored comments for abusive language, and although Mr. Reed did not use the common obsenities, his choice of adjectives is just as offensive.  I am sure if one was to refer to you by such, it probably won’t make it on your commentary thread.

      To all those posting, remember that mothers, fathers, daughters ….you get the point also read the Paulick Report to be informed and to express their thoughts as well. 

      Yes! let’s get Dutrow and others who are making a mockery of this beautiful sport out!  I believe in the end the wheels of justice will prevail.

      • Gradylikes

        Everything is offensive, get over it.

      • Don Reed

        Mr. Track-Eyes: We’re back from Belmont Park
        where it was not my day to shine, losing two photos & an inquiry.  The trend warmly encouraged us to leave after
        the 8th race. 

         

        Exiting out the front entrance, we & a dozen or so other
        people waiting for the car valets got an overpowering whiff of a calling card
        left by a robust, resident skunk. 

         

        There’s little one can do about picking the wrong
        horses.  Turn the day’s page.

         

        But I did ask Security if they’d make sure that Mr. Dutrow’s
        alibi was airtight – that he had actually been hundreds of yards away in his
        barn, tending to his horses – & not seen entering or exiting through
        Belmont’s front doors in the past ten minutes.

         

        As for Cesare being considered as the legitimate
        “trainer” of WB, this would be analogous to my fabricating a retroactive
        explanation that I am the actual author of a book – but having read it only
        after someone else, way back when, had written it.

        .

        Congratulations to trainers Hushion, Mott & Tagg for their
        respectively having won the Vosburgh, the Beldame, & the Kelso. 

         

        They are admired for their integrity. 

         

        For instance, it would be unimaginable that any of them -
        having not the slightest proof or evidence – would accuse a fellow trainer of
        having succeeded as the result of his having administered illegal drugs.

         

        (The trainer in question retired after a lengthy career with
        not ONE test positive).

         

        The fluent courtesy & grace inherent in your rebuttal to
        my initial posting is appreciated.

         

        In closing, if it is feasible, I encourage you to sign your
        real name to your letters. 

      • Don Reed

        TE: I’d
        like to add, in passing, that there was not one pseudonym in the list of bold &
        legible signatures affixed to our (I am assuming you are an American) Declaration
        of Independence that was signed on July 2, 1776.

         

        If we can
        adhere to this continuing standard, that would be in keeping with the courage exhibited
        by Hancock, Adams and his fellow signatories.

         

        Sorry to
        bother you, once again, but there’s a reason why this isn’t called the John Doe
        Report.

  • Don Reed

    THANK YOU Remington Park!

    We’ve been screaming
    about what a totally unacceptable louse Dutrow is, for the sport of American
    racing.  Since at least 2008.  That’s four years of lungs.

    But, with the exception
    of Kentucky’s
    “Get Lost” – we can’t get rid of this jackass!

    So. Should WB hit the
    board, who is the check made out to?

    Doesn’t matter; WB won’t
    win.

    Just remember to give “Sleazy
    Caesar” the bill for the plane necessary to get WB out to Oklahoma, as a reward
    for this charade.

  • Treyorr0124

    It goes on in the cutting horse world,the steeple chase races,the Barrel racing,The baseball,football and every other sport.Sp what is the difference.The whole system is whack.How can a team owner pay a dog fighting quarterback  about $30 million a year for throwing a football.YET a Super hear Surgeon that can actually operate on a baby or a President of the USA and that Doctor wont make $30 million in his whole life.Tell me which is ore crooked.The Horse racing drugs or the BS with pro referees and footbal/baseball/basketball players.The whole system is screwed up!

  • TrackEyes

    Mr. Reed, I am an avid reader of the Paulick Report and have come across comments posted that are at times offensive. Mr Dutrow for what ever infractions he have committed, and Mr. Caesar who in this scenario is being attacked for an act that is legal as far as paperwork goes and Remington Park approved (whether you or john public may think otherwise), I would like to believe that one can make a point without having to call someone a ‘Louse’ ‘Jackass!’ or ‘Sleazy’. 

    Your frustration as with the rest of us is understandable, but let us not loose our own civility in which we express ourselves. 

    To the ‘Paulick Report’ – In the past you have censored comments for abusive language, and although Mr. Reed did not use the common obsenities, his choice of adjectives is just as offensive.  I am sure if one was to refer to you by such, it probably won’t make it on your commentary thread.

    To all those posting, remember that mothers, fathers, daughters ….you get the point also read the Paulick Report to be informed and to express their thoughts as well. 

    Yes! let’s get Dutrow and others who are making a mockery of this beautiful sport out!  I believe in the end the wheels of justice will prevail.

  • Lou Baranello Former Steward

    The Remington Stewards and the Oklahoma Commission would buy the Brooklyn Bridge too.  Two more members for the HALL OF SHAME! 

    • Sadl1up

      I still do not believe the management of Remington Park is at fault here. They did what they could, you cannot punish the owner and horse because of the trainer’s mistakes. If I were this horse’s owner, I would remove my horses from his care and place them with a trainer with no drug infractions.

  • Lou Baranello

    The Remington Stewards and the Oklahoma Commission would buy the Brooklyn Bridge too.  Two more members for the HALL OF SHAME! 

  • Beachy

    A possible solution here is that, whilst a trainer is serving a suspension, no horse from that trainer’s barn can be entered in ANY race, under ANYBODY’S name(possibly unless the owner wants to move the horse to another’s barn altogether).  But does this industry have the guts to set a rule like that?  No pun intended–”Figure the odds”…  

    • Sean Kerr

      Guts seem to be in short supply within the horse racing industry in general.

  • Beachy

    A possible solution here is that, whilst a trainer is serving a suspension, no horse from that trainer’s barn can be entered in ANY race, under ANYBODY’S name(possibly unless the owner wants to move the horse to another’s barn altogether).  But does this industry have the guts to set a rule like that?  No pun intended–”Figure the odds”…  

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UYBILIHAIFH2HKEJK43BBFJQCQ Chris

    The rules around the country need to be changed to stop trainers facing sanctions from being able to pull this off.  I agree that Scott Wells was grandstanding a little, and let’s face it, the people in racing in OK want to see a horse like Willy Beamin come in and run.  But I will say this about Wells, I witnessed a very scary incident a couple of years ago when a horse flipped and ended up between the rail and the glass in the breezeway between the paddock and the track.  The horse had to be backed out in that small area to an opening where they could get it out.  The person that took charge and helped calm the horse and lead it to safety?  Scott Wells.

    • Sadl1up

      I agree, Mr. Wells does try to do the right thing, but you can’t please everyone, especially in his position. I stand behind Mr. Wells decision, Oklahoma racing needed the horse, but not the trainer!  

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UYBILIHAIFH2HKEJK43BBFJQCQ Chris

    The rules around the country need to be changed to stop trainers facing sanctions from being able to pull this off.  I agree that Scott Wells was grandstanding a little, and let’s face it, the people in racing in OK want to see a horse like Willy Beamin come in and run.  But I will say this about Wells, I witnessed a very scary incident a couple of years ago when a horse flipped and ended up between the rail and the glass in the breezeway between the paddock and the track.  The horse had to be backed out in that small area to an opening where they could get it out.  The person that took charge and helped calm the horse and lead it to safety?  Scott Wells.

  • James Staples

    FOLLOWING OUR GOVERMENTS LEAD!!!…ty…

  • Convene

    “Trainer of record” should actually mean he trained the horse for a minimum of – say, a month in places outside the venue in question. Otherwise it’s just paperwork and is meaningless. I’d laugh if it wasn’t so darn sad …

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000351961052 Darlene Allison Anders Sanner

      That is not realistic My horse is training for weeks for certain race but I have an argument with the trainer a week before that race and fire him So now I can’t run him the race because the new trainer I hire hasn’t had him a month? Not fair or reasonable I say

      • Convene

         You make a valid point. Perhaps I should have added, “when replacing another trainer under suspension” – or some clause prohibiting returning the horse to the suspended trainer within a time-frame following. It’s not an easy problem to fix, is it!

  • Convene

    “Trainer of record” should actually mean he trained the horse for a minimum of – say, a month in places outside the venue in question. Otherwise it’s just paperwork and is meaningless. I’d laugh if it wasn’t so darn sad …

  • Gradylikes

    Everything is offensive, get over it.

  • Sean Kerr

    Guts seem to be in short supply within the horse racing industry in general.

  • Sean Kerr

    There is only one solution to
    each of the problems – including medications – that are ruining American horse
    racing: a national horse racing commission, by way of a new federal act of
    congress that decouples all horse and dog racing from the state’s authority,
    and that allows racing to be a totally free enterprise system free of
    government management, but subject to clearly defined law – on a national
    level.

    The states cannot handle racing
    and wagering: they have never been able to – and they never will. Racing and
    wagering are two sides of the same coin of a totally interstate commerce
    industry. The congress of the United States has a duty and a responsibility to
    cease allowing this industry and the people who invest in it, to suffer at the
    hands of the current poorly managed inept and corrupt confederation of
    ineffective state governments.

    I intend to make it happen. It is
    my life’s purpose. Crazy or not, for better or worse, I am not going to sit
    back and let this sorry state of affairs continue.

    Are you with me?

    The choice is yours. This is the
    only solution. You can make this happen if you want it. None of us are victims
    here. If we don’t like this current situation, we have a responsibility to
    stand up and make it change.

    Join me – send me a note at [email protected] and
    tell us you want to roll your sleeves up and make American horses racing the
    next NFL.

    Let’s make history. Now is our
    time.

    • RayeSource

       While all this enforcement is going on, what happened to the rest of the bad test and trainers in NM?  I have only heard of 3 trainers getting set down and fined.  What happened to the other 32 bad tests and the trainers who cheated?  Where is this transparency?

      • Dcurtis

        Instead of New Mexico of not doing their job, why don’t you take your questions to them, it’s a matter of public records, I am sure they will be happy to assure they are going after everyone one who is guilty

        • Ben K McFadden

           I don’t know about NM specifically, but most stewards hearing minutes are SEVERELY annotated to reflect what the stewards want to include.  Most stewards hearings are not open to the public, although under the open hearings laws of state’s that have them, they should be.  They should be anyway.

      • LORY

        New Mexico has procedures like any one else that they have to follow. but if you would have checked you would have seen that they are doling out lond suspensions-5 years per count of dermorphan

    • Lou Baranello Former Steward

      Sean, I like your proposition and I admire your determination.  Effecting a drastic but needed change of this sort requires navigating a minefield of legal obstacles, but I’m sure you are aware of that.  Having a sincere and understanding ear in the house or senate would also be a big plus.  What about a respectable number of signatures on a petetion? 

  • Sean Kerr

    There is only one solution to
    each of the problems – including medications – that are ruining American horse
    racing: a national horse racing commission, by way of a new federal act of
    congress that decouples all horse and dog racing from the state’s authority,
    and that allows racing to be a totally free enterprise system free of
    government management, but subject to clearly defined law – on a national
    level.

    The states cannot handle racing
    and wagering: they have never been able to – and they never will. Racing and
    wagering are two sides of the same coin of a totally interstate commerce
    industry. The congress of the United States has a duty and a responsibility to
    cease allowing this industry and the people who invest in it, to suffer at the
    hands of the current poorly managed inept and corrupt confederation of
    ineffective state governments.

    I intend to make it happen. It is
    my life’s purpose. Crazy or not, for better or worse, I am not going to sit
    back and let this sorry state of affairs continue.

    Are you with me?

    The choice is yours. This is the
    only solution. You can make this happen if you want it. None of us are victims
    here. If we don’t like this current situation, we have a responsibility to
    stand up and make it change.

    Join me – send me a note at [email protected] and
    tell us you want to roll your sleeves up and make American horses racing the
    next NFL.

    Let’s make history. Now is our
    time.

  • Sadl1up

    I agree, Mr. Wells does try to do the right thing, but you can’t please everyone, especially in his position. I stand behind Mr. Wells decision, Oklahoma racing needed the horse, but not the trainer!  

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000351961052 Darlene Allison Anders Sanner

    so what would you have liked the Ok Horse Racing Commission to have done Mr Cesare applied for and was issued a training license legally He then entered a horse with papers naming him as the trainer Legally Owners are not locked to trainers They hire,fire and rehire all the time You may know in your gut a game is going on But having a legal way to deny is another story 

    • Barney Door

       Correct.  The trainer was banned.  Not the owner or the horse.  All the posts on here say the owner should change trainers if the trainer is found guilty of wrong doing.  Were dutrow’s offenses linked to willy b?  I don’t think so.  even the do gooders can’t punish the owner for something that didn’t involve his horse.

      if more tracks and jurisdictions took this approach, fewer and fewer horses would be assigned to Dutrow, in spite of his success. An owner can currently hire any private trainer, (licensed or not), or even train it himself without a license on a private facility. He can then get a licensed trainer to enter and saddle the horse.  There are no rules to prevent that. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000351961052 Darlene Allison Anders Sanner

    so what would you have liked the Ok Horse Racing Commission to have done Mr Cesare applied for and was issued a training license legally He then entered a horse with papers naming him as the trainer Legally Owners are not locked to trainers They hire,fire and rehire all the time You may know in your gut a game is going on But having a legal way to deny is another story 

  • Don Reed

    Mr. Track-Eyes: We’re back from Belmont Park
    where it was not my day to shine, losing two photos & an inquiry.  The trend warmly encouraged us to leave after
    the 8th race. 

     

    Exiting out the front entrance, we & a dozen or so other
    people waiting for the car valets got an overpowering whiff of a calling card
    left by a robust, resident skunk. 

     

    There’s little one can do about picking the wrong
    horses.  Turn the day’s page.

     

    But I did ask Security if they’d make sure that Mr. Dutrow’s
    alibi was airtight – that he had actually been hundreds of yards away in his
    barn, tending to his horses – & not seen entering or exiting through
    Belmont’s front doors in the past ten minutes.

     

    As for Cesare being considered as the legitimate
    “trainer” of WB, this would be analogous to my fabricating a retroactive
    explanation that I am the actual author of a book – but having read it only
    after someone else, way back when, had written it.

    .

    Congratulations to trainers Hushion, Mott & Tagg for their
    respectively having won the Vosburgh, the Beldame, & the Kelso. 

     

    They are admired for their integrity. 

     

    For instance, it would be unimaginable that any of them -
    having not the slightest proof or evidence – would accuse a fellow trainer of
    having succeeded as the result of his having administered illegal drugs.

     

    (The trainer in question retired after a lengthy career with
    not ONE test positive).

     

    The fluent courtesy & grace inherent in your rebuttal to
    my initial posting is appreciated.

     

    In closing, if it is feasible, I encourage you to sign your
    real name to your letters. 

  • Barney Door

     Correct.  The trainer was banned.  Not the owner or the horse.  All the posts on here say the owner should change trainers if the trainer is found guilty of wrong doing.  Were dutrow’s offenses linked to willy b?  I don’t think so.  even the do gooders can’t punish the owner for something that didn’t involve his horse.

    if more tracks and jurisdictions took this approach, fewer and fewer horses would be assigned to Dutrow, in spite of his success. An owner can currently hire any private trainer, (licensed or not), or even train it himself without a license on a private facility. He can then get a licensed trainer to enter and saddle the horse.  There are no rules to prevent that. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000351961052 Darlene Allison Anders Sanner

    That is not realistic My horse is training for weeks for certain race but I have an argument with the trainer a week before that race and fire him So now I can’t run him the race because the new trainer I hire hasn’t had him a month? Not fair or reasonable I say

  • RayeSource

     While all this enforcement is going on, what happened to the rest of the bad test and trainers in NM?  I have only heard of 3 trainers getting set down and fined.  What happened to the other 32 bad tests and the trainers who cheated?  Where is this transparency?

  • Lou Baranello

    Sean, I like your proposition and I admire your determination.  Effecting a drastic but needed change of this sort requires navigating a minefield of legal obstacles, but I’m sure you are aware of that.  Having a sincere and understanding ear in the house or senate would also be a big plus.  What about a respectable number of signatures on a petetion? 

  • Ben K McFadden

    Willy B. and his owner were not involved in Dutrow’s cited violations and cannot be punished. The owner can change trainer’s at any time for any reason.  Dutrow is the one being properly banned. If this happens enough any owner with any sense would make the change permanent.

    If I am a suspended lawyer, I can still give legal advise but cannot charge, file documents, try cases, etc.  If my son is an attorney, I can sit in on meetings with his clients (with their permission) and give him “personal” advice.  The same is true of almost every profession.  Suspension and sanctions can keep the individual from the actual practice of the profession, but cannot keep them from providing guidance and advice at no charge.

    Dutrow is being squeezed by this approach, and if enough venues follow suit, he will have fewer and fewer clients.

    Racing is no better or worse than most other professions.

    • Tbhorseman

      If you want us to feel sorry for Dutrow you are mistaken.   He has repeatedly laughed in the face of the rules and has multiple drug violations.  The game is dying because of people like him.

      • Ben K McFadden

         I don’t think you are paying attention.  I’ll try again: The only way that Dutrow will ever be completely prevented from training (licensed or otherwise) is if owners’ quit using his services; at a licensed training facility or at at private one where no license is required. 

        Second, Willy B. and his owner were not suspended, so they should be allowed to be saddled or raced by any licensed trainer who is willing to do so.

        Got it this time?

        • Tbhorseman

          I am paying attention.   The owner is knowingly using a program trainer to run his horse in OK making himself guilty of defrauding the public and should be sanctioned for it.

          • Don Reed

            Perfectly stated.

          • Ben K McFadden

             You and every other member of the racing public are aware of what is happening and in no way have been defrauded.  You don’t like it.  That’s okay, but it is not fraud.  What nonsense.

          • Tbhorseman

            How is it not fraud.  How does the causal fan who doesn’t follow the Paulick Report know tha that Cesare isn’t the real trainer?

          • BenKMcFadden

             A casual fan who doesn’t know the real trainer is getting the benefit of Dutrow vs Cesare without knowing it.  The casual fan who bets his money without reading the DRF or some other pub is just stupid, and it won’t matter who the trainer is.

            It is still not fraud when it is public knowledge.  the failure of the casual fan to do his homework, does not make it fraud any more than it is fraud if GM sells me a Cadillac with a Buick engine.  If the bill of mfg says it and I don’t read it, it ain’t fraud.

          • Don Reed

            How is being lied to not being defrauded?

            Cesare “trained” WB for less than five minutes before it entered the gate.

            Cars crash, just a fender bender.  Cops approach.  Dutrow (the actual driver) and Cesare (passenger) switch positions.

            Cesare hands the policeman (Remington Park) his driver’s license.

            Policeman: “Yes, sir, everything’s in order.  Purely an accident.  We won’t press charges.  You’re free to go.”

          • Ben K McFadden

             Absurd analogy.  You know the true circumstances, you know the roles, and you (unlike the policeman) have in no way been deceived. No one lied, or made any effort to conceal what is really transpiring.  By definition, fraud requires deception.  Your just told me the “true” circumstances, and you knew them ahead of time. You and everyone else knew what Dutrow & Co were doing.  We may all in some way be harmed by the shenanigans, but it would not be without our knowledge of events, so we would not have been defrauded.

            The actions may be unethical, but they are not fraudulent.  You would make a lousy attorney or judge, and an even worse juror.  Perhaps you should avoid setting yourself up as all three.  Pick a different term to describe Mr. Dutrow – despicable works for me.

          • Don Reed

            Ben, it may be true that I would make a lousy attorney.

             

            However, if I was an attorney, and for the sake of argument,
            a lousy one, I would still be delighted to represent you in court, so as to
            ensure your conviction.

          • Tbhorseman

            The owner is knowingly defrauding the public by claiming Cesare is the trainer period.   What day did he take over the training and what reason is given for his termination when the horse goes back to Dutrow?

          • Ben K McFadden

             Please review the legal definition of fraud. 

            There is nothing in the rules prohibiting moving a horse whenever they want.  There is also no requirement legal or ethical, barring a written contract, that I give a trainer a reason for making a change.  I don’t, never have, and don’t plan to start.

             “Arrangements have been made to move my horse.  The van company will contact your barn.”  That is the extent of my explanation.

          • Big O horseman

            None needed trainers are fired every day with no explanation needed period.

          • Barney Door

            Legal? Yes.
            Unethical? Probably
            Fraud?  No.

            Fraud involves deception.  Have you been deceived?

    • Big O horseman

      You say the owner has nothing to do with the sanctions against Dutrow but for as long as can remember owner James Ricco has employed trainer who have had plenty of suspension such as Dutrow, Pete Ferriola Juan Serey etc. Its not like these owners don’t know what’s going on are we that naive and what about going after the vets who give these drugs I bet if they punished them as well it would make things better…

  • Ben K McFadden

    Willy B. and his owner were not involved in Dutrow’s cited violations and cannot be punished. The owner can change trainer’s at any time for any reason.  Dutrow is the one being properly banned. If this happens enough any owner with any sense would make the change permanent.

    If I am a suspended lawyer, I can still give legal advise but cannot charge, file documents, try cases, etc.  If my son is an attorney, I can sit in on meetings with his clients (with their permission) and give him “personal” advice.  The same is true of almost every profession.  Suspension and sanctions can keep the individual from the actual practice of the profession, but cannot keep them from providing guidance and advice at no charge.

    Dutrow is being squeezed by this approach, and if enough venues follow suit, he will have fewer and fewer clients.

    Racing is no better or worse than most other professions.

  • Wolfwhistler

    You are 100% correct. Tis why racing is getting such a bad name!

  • Wolfwhistler

    You are 100% correct. Tis why racing is getting such a bad name!

  • Convene

     You make a valid point. Perhaps I should have added, “when replacing another trainer under suspension” – or some clause prohibiting returning the horse to the suspended trainer within a time-frame following. It’s not an easy problem to fix, is it!

  • Tbhorseman

    If you want us to feel sorry for Dutrow you are mistaken.   He has repeatedly laughed in the face of the rules and has multiple drug violations.  The game is dying because of people like him.

  • Ben K McFadden

     I don’t think you are paying attention.  I’ll try again: The only way that Dutrow will ever be completely prevented from training (licensed or otherwise) is if owners’ quit using his services; at a licensed training facility or at at private one where no license is required. 

    Second, Willy B. and his owner were not suspended, so they should be allowed to be saddled or raced by any licensed trainer who is willing to do so.

    Got it this time?

  • Sadl1up

    I still do not believe the management of Remington Park is at fault here. They did what they could, you cannot punish the owner and horse because of the trainer’s mistakes. If I were this horse’s owner, I would remove my horses from his care and place them with a trainer with no drug infractions.

  • Dcurtis

    Instead of New Mexico of not doing their job, why don’t you take your questions to them, it’s a matter of public records, I am sure they will be happy to assure they are going after everyone one who is guilty

  • ASL

    The Oklahoma Horse Racing Commission should be ashamed.  This is excactly the kind of “look the other way” crap that has damaged the integrity of horse racing.  

  • ASL

    The Oklahoma Horse Racing Commission should be ashamed.  This is excactly the kind of “look the other way” crap that has damaged the integrity of horse racing.  

  • Sandra

    why do the West Virginia stewards turn a blind eye to Scooter Davis but not to Rick Dutrow, with reguards to who the actual trainer really is?

  • Sandra

    why do the West Virginia stewards turn a blind eye to Scooter Davis but not to Rick Dutrow, with reguards to who the actual trainer really is?

  • James Staples

    DICK is OVERDUE BABY…

  • James Staples

    DICK is OVERDUE BABY…

  • Don Reed

    “So. Should WB hit the board, who is the check made out to?

    “Doesn’t matter; WB won’t win.” — from my post sent in on Friday.

    RESULTS: Politically Correct 1ST (10-1).  Beat WB (2nd) by 3/4 lengths.

    The only thing I regret, & deeply, is Edgar Prado’s disappointment. 

    After the example of character & integrity he’s consistently displayed throughout his career, he deserves absolutely none.

    • Barney Door

       Jockey’s on a moral pedestal.  I laugh.

      • Don Reed

        Barney, don’t let the Door hit you in the ass on the way out.

        • Ben K McFadden

          A typical substantive,and well presented reply.

  • Don Reed

    “So. Should WB hit the board, who is the check made out to?

    “Doesn’t matter; WB won’t win.” — from my post sent in on Friday.

    RESULTS: Politically Correct 1ST (10-1).  Beat WB (2nd) by 3/4 lengths.

    The only thing I regret, & deeply, is Edgar Prado’s disappointment. 

    After the example of character & integrity he’s consistently displayed throughout his career, he deserves absolutely none.

  • Tbhorseman

    I am paying attention.   The owner is knowingly using a program trainer to run his horse in OK making himself guilty of defrauding the public and should be sanctioned for it.

  • Don Reed

    Perfectly stated.

  • Barney Door

     Jockey’s on a moral pedestal.  I laugh.

  • LORY

    New Mexico has procedures like any one else that they have to follow. but if you would have checked you would have seen that they are doling out lond suspensions-5 years per count of dermorphan

  • Don Reed

    Barney, don’t let the Door hit you in the ass on the way out.

  • Don Reed

    TE: I’d
    like to add, in passing, that there was not one pseudonym in the list of bold &
    legible signatures affixed to our (I am assuming you are an American) Declaration
    of Independence that was signed on July 2, 1776.

     

    If we can
    adhere to this continuing standard, that would be in keeping with the courage exhibited
    by Hancock, Adams and his fellow signatories.

     

    Sorry to
    bother you, once again, but there’s a reason why this isn’t called the John Doe
    Report.

  • Don Reed

    How is being lied to not being defrauded?

    Cesare “trained” WB for less than five minutes before it entered the gate.

    Cars crash, just a fender bender.  Cops approach.  Dutrow (the actual driver) and Cesare (passenger) switch positions.

    Cesare hands the policeman (Remington Park) his driver’s license.

    Policeman: “Yes, sir, everything’s in order.  Purely an accident.  We won’t press charges.  You’re free to go.”

  • Tbhorseman

    The owner is knowingly defrauding the public by claiming Cesare is the trainer period.   What day did he take over the training and what reason is given for his termination when the horse goes back to Dutrow?

  • Ben K McFadden

     I don’t know about NM specifically, but most stewards hearing minutes are SEVERELY annotated to reflect what the stewards want to include.  Most stewards hearings are not open to the public, although under the open hearings laws of state’s that have them, they should be.  They should be anyway.

  • Ben K McFadden

    A typical substantive,and well presented reply.

  • Don Reed

    Ben, it may be true that I would make a lousy attorney.

     

    However, if I was an attorney, and for the sake of argument,
    a lousy one, I would still be delighted to represent you in court, so as to
    ensure your conviction.

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