Irwin: Race-day medication ban all about perception

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Barry Irwin Barry Irwin

Barry Irwin, the founder and CEO of Team Valor International, has been an outspoken advocate for elimination of race-day medication in North America. In the following commentary, Irwin explains why it is important for the Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association not to abandon its proposal to have all American Graded Stakes for 2-year-olds run without race-day medication.


I want to see race day medication banned in graded races for 2-year-olds.

Like most people in the game, I’ve heard the rationale from trainers and veterinarians as to why race day drugs are considered a necessity. I also have heard from the hay-oats-and-water crowd. I am one of them.

What it all boils down to from my own perspective, as a syndicator of racing partnerships and a promoter of racing to newcomers, is the public’s perception of our sport.

In a sport that is clawing and scratching to stay relevant in the 21st century, the only thing that matters is what the public thinks of our sport.

In a nutshell, race day medication is perceived by the public as juicing horses in order to render them healthy and sound enough to race. Nothing any horseman or veterinarian can say to explain the positive benefits of race day meds can alter that public perception.

If our sport cannot be conducted without the use of race day meds, then we really don’t have a sport that is viable. I would question the ethics and morals of why we would continue to subject our animals to this sort of treatment. Those people that say it is their moral and professional duty to treat our horses on race day have it all wrong.

If we say to the public that there will be less chance of a horse bleeding by administering it Lasix, then what we are really saying is that too many horses bleed on a regular basis and that PETA is correct that we are being cruel to our horses. Either way, proponents of race day meds have a position that is indefensible.

Human beings have a less efficient respiratory and circulatory system than a racehorse, yet somehow we are able to participate in track and field while running medication free. Thoroughbreds have been selectively bred for generations to be athletes and some would have us believe that they cannot compete when medication free. This makes no sense.

Ever since the Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association announced that it would have to postpone its initiative to convince major racing jurisdictions to cease using Lasix for 2-year-olds in graded races, the subject of race day meds has gone viral in the racing community. TOBA took its members and the racing public by surprise when, seemingly out of the blue, they announced their failure, because they had provided no advance warning.

Well meaning and admirable people on the HOAW side of the argument vented their frustrations in an emotional manner that was out of character for them. These folks had counted on TOBA to follow the Breeders’ Cup lead in banning race day meds for juveniles commencing with the 2012 event at Santa Anita. When they suspected that TOBA had wimped out and caved in to trainers and racing boards, they lost their cool.

I don’t hold it against them. But I would suggest to them, as well as to anybody else that might want to quit TOBA, that this is exactly the wrong time to be jumping ship. The HOAW crowd needs solidarity on this issue, not frustrated citizens venting their spleens.

A great part of the problem is that TOBA did an inadequate job in updating and informing its members of the roadblocks that were preventing them from being able to successfully complete their mission on the drug initiative.

I am hopeful, once cooler heads prevail, that TOBA will regroup and zero in on a strategy that will win the day for them, because without a victory on this issue, racing most surely will continue marginalizing itself to a point where it will become totally irrelevant.

TOBA asked trainers and racing regulators to consider an experiment in which race day meds would be withheld from graded races for 2-year-olds to see how it would impact these races. Trainers have vehemently opposed this experiment and regulators have remained inactive.

If trainers and vets are really convinced that their position about the use of race day meds is correct, then why not agree to TOBA’s experiment and prove them wrong?

Nobody in racing can justify the use of race day medication. Proponents of race day meds can talk all they want about protecting the health of our horses by administering drugs, but the bottom line is that most of the rest of the world has gotten along without this stuff forever on race day.

Outside of America, the public perception is that our trainers cheat and rely on drugs. I don’t believe many trainers cheat, but I do believe that the overwhelming majority of them rely on drugs. Heck, why wouldn’t they? As Bill Casner pointed out to me the other day, most of the trainers that ply their trade today have known no other way, since they began training when permissive medication was already the law. Nobody is asking them not to train their stock on drugs, just not to race them on medication.

Some U. S.-based conditioners have trained in locales where race day meds are not legal and these horsemen do not live in morbid fear of a change in policy.

Regardless of what side of the issue one is on, I think the single most relevant aspect of the debate is how the use of race day meds impacts the perception of the public. The position of horsemen is indefensible. The position advocated by the HOAW is admirable and embraceable by the public.

We don’t need to rehash what happened when the trainer of a Kentucky Derby winner revealed on TV that his horse was on steroids. The public clamor following that remark shows what the public thinks about horses that they perceived to be juiced.

Why is public perception important? Try these on for size:

1)    The public is required for attendance at racetracks.
2)    The public is required for betting on horse races.
3)    The public does not like to bet on sporting contests that they perceive to be contested on a playing field that is not level.
4)    The public likes animals and the public especially likes horses. They don’t like horses being drugged just so that a contest can be held.
5)    The public reads newspapers and watches TV and owners of the media provides content to the public that they want to see.
6)    The public votes for politicians.
7)    Politicians oversee racing on behalf of the public.
8)    Politicians are responsible for the welfare of the animals.
9)    Politicians are charged with regulating and protecting the public in games of chance.

Trainers and owners are facing off in a monumental battle over the use of race day meds and the entire health of our sport hangs in the balance. Don’t think it doesn’t.

The organizations that represent trainers want drugs. The organizations that represent owners do not.

Proponents of race day meds cannot win because they are on the wrong side of the issue. They want the public to continue to play along with them and allow them to treat racehorses with medication.

If 100 percent of our racehorses require Lasix in order for racing to be conducted, I suggest to you that we don’t have a viable sport and this is exactly the way the public sees it. In the public eye, racing has cooties because we drug our horses.

The owners cannot lose, because they are on the right side of the issue, as their position mirrors what the public wants. The public is the customer and the last time I checked, it said that the customer is always right.

This same realization must be understood and internalized by the people that run the New York Racing Association, as well as the tracks in Kentucky and California, where the bulk of graded races for 2-year-olds are contested. They need to support their fan base and their future fan base by supporting the owners.

Racing regulators must do their duty and take steps to protect its constituents and the animals by doing whatever it takes to establish and enforce rules that will cease the use of race day meds for the 2-year-olds in graded races, as a sign that they are following their mandate with the public.

Let’s say, for the sake of compromise, that the trainers and vets are absolutely correct on the issue of using Lasix. Even if they are, is it worth risking the loss of our entire sport because 6 out of 100 horses might bleed through the nose?

This sport cannot let the tail wag the dog any longer. We need to kick the drug habit. We have totally abused drugs on race day with our horses for far too long.

Can you imagine a physician treating human athletes by prescribing drugs for every one of its patients based on the chance that they might need it someday?

In conclusion, I humbly suggest to TOBA that they present the following trade off to trainers: you can keep treating your horses with meds on race day and drive this game into an abyss, or you can change your position and help revitalize the game. Horsemen should realize that a game without drugs is preferable to no game at all.

Our game is shriveling before our very eyes and dramatic action from a public relations standpoint must be undertaken to reverse the trend and get the public on our side.
 
It behooves trainers to embrace the welfare of their animals and thereby win the battle of public perception. It is time for trainers to allow the public to admire them and their vast skills. Then the public will once again focus on and appreciate the beauty and majesty of our great sport.

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  • Rachel

    Good points about the “public”…horse racing can’t even draw in other horse people.

    No race day bute, either.

  • Garrett Redmond

    Barry Irwin has it right.  Yet, there is still a vital question.

    As owners pay all the bills, why should they accept any ‘trainer’ unwilling to handle their horses without use of dope??

    Is it no longer true, “He that pays the piper, calls the tune”???

  • Jerry

    This is laughably sad. One of the loudest voices that has demonized racing IN THE PRESS is now going to lecture on public perception? Perhaps he should have thought about public perception prior to making inflamatory statements that an unknowing public and Joe Drape have picked up on?

  • Bob Bright

    Right on,  Mr. Barry Irwin.  Perception is reality.  The horseman position, as you stated, is indefensible.

  • Enio

    A bit too lengthy, but one cannot argue with the logic here. It was all said in the essay’s seven title words: race-day medication ban all about perception.

  • Scott Ramsay

    Poor Barry.

    If the “public perception” is wrong, which it is on this issue — to the extent the public even has a perception about it — then it must be changed.  There is not one scintilla of evidence of a public perception problem about Lasix — but the New York Times shouting from the rooftops about “illegal/unethical race day mediation” is intended to develop a very big one.

    Barry is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    “Juicing” horses does not include Lasix, as The Jockey Club’s own study PROVED.  It also PROVED that Lasix is not a masking agent for other drugs, which is still thought to be true by a lot of people who should know better.

    Eliminate Lasix, and you have all the “adjunct bleeder medications” to contend with, none of which are testable or demonstrated to do anything to inhibit bleeding!  Don’t tell me that all kinds of un-testable medications are not used in Europe, and here in the USA — let’s permit the known and knowable and proven, and go after all the others WITH A VENGEANCE.  

    If we rule off the things we have studied and know about, we’re going to have a much worse problem than we do now.

    What is truly in the interest of the welfare of horses is actual therapeutic medication, but not cheating drugs.  In most jurisdictions, and all major jurisdictions, the only significant race-day med permitted is Lasix.  Where adjuncts are permitted, get rid of them. We would all be a lot better off if we stopped whining about Lasix, and went after the “adjuncts” — and also really found out what the real cheaters are using, developed tests for them, and caught up with the cheaters.  

    The cheating drugs and those who use them are what are really harming horses and the sport.

  • Rachel

    Where is the report that proved it didn’t mask stuff? I’d like to read it, really, it would make me feel better that at least that problem didn’t exixt.

    But, why then, does the entire rest of the sport world say it does?

    from Munchen Tech, Germany, on a study of diuretics, including furosemide: “Diuretics can be regarded as “masking” agents due to the dilution of the urine, which results in lower levels of the banned substance being excreted from the body.”

  • Edd Roggenkamp

    Remember Sears and Kodak, good at operations, poor at adapting to change. Management and workers hate change and will fight every attempt to modfy and old familiar routine. That is why new companies often eclipse old stalwarts. Racing is no different, the leadership for change will have to fight an uphill battle. Truely in the case of Sears and Kodak the managements would rather die than change.

  • Ridindirty3

    The current rules ALLOW certain meds mostly NSAIDS & LASIX. Unless the horse comes up positive for an overage of NSAIDS…..and EVEN if it does……..levels are not enough (NANOGRAMS) to make ANY difference WHATSOEVER in the horse’s performance! LASIX is the ONLY therapeutic drug given LEGALLY on race day in an amount that makes a difference! It is public perception……..but the public perception is being swayed by sensational media hype…..NOT REALITY! Didn’t the jockey club come with a report about 99+% of the horses tested were NOT cheating? THESE ARE THE RULES!

  • Tinky

    “‘Juicing’ horses does not include Lasix”

    Thanks for the laugh! Especially given that virtually everyone in the game recognizes that Lasix is a performance enhancer, and that it is considered as such by the Mayo Clinic, the Olympics, and virtually every professional sport that you can think of.

  • Tinky

    Sorry, but Lasix is a proven performance enhancer. Do some research.

  • Kettle and Pot

    Hey Barry, what do you think the public perception was after you said to millions on NBC that you were tired of trainers lying to you after YOU won the Derby? You make some good points here, but let’s not get all holier than thou with regard to public perception, ok?

  • Bustin Roos

    The proper way to wean trainers and owners off medicating their horses is start by banning all non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (Bute and Banamine).  There is no argument as to why these drugs should be in a horse on race day. The AAEP will have to support this policy.  If your horse needs a bute shot to get over to the races– probably shouldn’t be racin’

  • Ridindirty3

    Reading is fundamental? Look into it?

  • Gosley

    Funny, I can remember the days at Monmouth before the L showed up. Didn’t seem to be any big problem. Big Pharma comes up with Lasix and of course, you gotta have it. It makes the horse pee until the poor animal is totally drained. Have any of these trainers stayed around and watched a horse in the hours after the Vet administers Lasix? In the overall medication discussion I would like to hear more from the veterinarians. It always seems to be an individual vet speaking up – do they have an association where they discuss meds? I believe there are quite a few (human) doctors who quit practicing because of the Pharma companies going right past them to the public on TV. “Ask your doctor etc..” As long as there is a profit in drugs they will be pushed. I believe the Veterinarians should be at the forefront of the med issue. As for the “Vast skills of the trainers” Barry, methinks thou doth protest too much! You had it right the first time after the derby! Great post and lets get some HOAW T-shirts out there.

  • Former Bettor

    I normally cringe everytime Barry Irwin steps from behind the curtain but on this issue he is 100% correct.
    Of course, nobody in a position to do anything about it listens.

  • Barry Irwin

    Troll. Check it out.

  • McGov

    Once again Mr. Irwin adds valuable insight and opinion to the Paulick Report.  I believe that you represent the majority opinion and I hope that your efforts make a difference.  Regarding your post Derby comments, I found them refreshing and honest and I say good for you for speaking up and taking a stand.  Some people can’t handle the truth.

  • Ed

    Whenever I bring someone new to the track they do not have a problem with lasix.  The public perception is that trainers are using OTHER illegal drugs which are not disclosed to the public.  People want to believe they are betting on a fair race.  I think the industry needs to improve how it prevents current cheating before making anything else illegal.  What is the point of banning lasix when a trainer who tests positive for it will continue training for years before taking a strategically timed vacation?  That said, I am all for banning of lasix but don’t think it should be top priority for the industry.

  • Aggadan

    Having run horses on and off lasix i can personally say that Lasix is overused. Trainers as a whole use the drug cause they can. Does it enhance performance yes. Does it enhance performance in all horses NO.  Lasix is a diuretic it drains water from the horses systems. For all you people who have any idea about it. The way it enhances performance is by thickening the blood. A similar effect is called Blood doping which removes plasma from the blood and then the red blood cells are reintroduced to the system giving you a big advantage. 

    In order to get your horse on lasix he has to have shown signs of bleeding in the lungs. How do you get your horse on lasix in most states  you slip your vet an extra hundred and  he will see all kinds of blood in the horses lungs. 

    This is a drug that is over used.  Is it neccesary on race day no. 

  • Aggadan

    In handling owners the one thing that is lacking in all peoples understanding is that  horse owners are pushing the buttons on alot of things.  The days of the horse owner  not understand meds is long gone. Now the owners are calling the shots and leaving the trainers bumbling in the corner. Having had owners myself who called the vet and told them to treat the horse with a substance in order to improve the horse’s performance. 

    When both` the vet and the trainer advised the owner that the horse needed to heal, the owner told them to treat the horse no matter what. guess what happens the horse still runs like crap  the owner spent an additional 400 on med the horse didnt need. now the owner is pissed at the trainer.  What needs desperate change is the trainer responsibility rule.  

    One good example that nobody pays attention to is that in NY   the state vet treats the horse with lasix. prior to this if the horse tested positive for an overage of lasix  the trainer was fined. Now if the horse test positive for an overage of lasix its on NY   but Ny doesnt fine itself for an overage of lasix.  As one kentucky derby winning trainer told me  Lets get rid of race day meds. Have the state administer vets administer the meds prior to the horses racing withing a certain window. 

    guess what folks they wont do it cause its easier to label a trainer a cheater than do the right thing. 

  • Take that

    “I would question the ethics and morals of why we would continue to subject our animals to this sort of treatment”

    Re Lasix.
    Strangely we seem to overlook how much Lasix dehydrates the horses. Running around a racetrack at the height of summer is massively dehydrating to begin with. Yet we make matters worse with this medication. If I remember correctly Kieran McLaughlin
    pointed this out when he was asked about the lack of a triple crown winner in the last 30 years. And of course we can look to Australia where horses run every week or 10 days in a similar hot climate without any race day medication. It’s madness to continue this practice.

  • Mousse

    Ok if this proposal were implemented what would happen to all the racing critters who truly need a lasix shot to compete at their level best.  Turn em out till healed, fine.  Where and to whom do I send the monthly bills.   Team Valor?

  • sittin’ chilly

    Bravo Barry. I ask again the question I posed to horsemen on this board a few days ago: Would you rather have no drugs or no racing? That is what we all eventually will have to answer. While I agree the Lasix question is something of a sideshow, it has to go too. Defending it or saying horses need it only begs the question why, and the ultimate response that if they do need it or any other drug to be able to perform for our pleasure, they ought not to be running.  For once let’s get ahead of an issue (as the NFL is doing with head injuries) rather than fighting a pointless and losing rear-guard action.

  • Barry Irwin

    I’ll submit my next piece to you first for editing.

  • Barbara

    Right on Barry.

  • Wendy Averill

    Barry’s right.  Period.  The industry is floundering at the box office and that same industry is failing to actively and aggressively respond to this failure.   Without a public, there is no racing.  I might add one more item to Barry’s list of 9:  Excessive whipping.  The majority of the public does not like to see animals whipped excessively.  Remember Borel flogging Rachel Alexandra 23 times in the Woodward?

  • Reality

    Barry   are you nuts   next thing your going to ask is for fairness and unbiased decisions in racing.     The uneducated regulators are to busy covering there ass  instead of learning the ins and outs of horse racing 

  • Anne

    NY Times article. It’s way beyond perception. It needs to become a reality. 

  • http://twitter.com/warrenthebull Warren Eves

    Amen Barry.  

    I have, for the better part of 40 years, written and researched the use of illegal drugs, roids, HGH and designer drugs of choice.  My long range concern in recent years has been a growing concern as to how medications have affected horse racing’s “get.”  I believe there is a correlation to designer drugs humans are prescribed for various maladies and all those “side affects” they warn you about.  Our industry does not know how offsprings have been affected.

    Some “practicing physicians” admit there are gray areas of conern.  I wish more veterinarians would own up to similar concerns they might have for the equines they treat daily.  You can bet some long range issues in the thoroughred are the end result of meds a vet has used treating physical issues.I do not claim to be an expert.  I do maintain my data base supports the fact illegal use of substances are alive and well in horse racing and in sportdom.  We won’t recall all of the drug violations I have written about over the years and the bogus claims that came with same.  Those seven scopolomine positives of 1994 come to mind.  One trainer blamed the dreaded Jimson Weed had caused his positives.  It was not true.  Fact.  We have not heard a word about Jimson Weed ever since.    We continue to hear bogus claims how everything is under control in horse racing, the NFL and in baseball.  Not true!  Vested groups continue to protect their inner circles driven by greed.   Designer drugs of choice are alive and well.  Nothing is going to change until the horse racing industry re-writes their loosely written mandates.  Yes, Virginia, the lawyers will continue to exploit statutes which still fail to spell out in detail what the penalties are.  We need to get tough.  Stop talking about it.  The industry needs to get specific.  First time illegal drug use of Class 1 will be?.  Second time illegal drug use of Class 1 offense will be? etc.  Until we dot the (i) and cross every (t) the mandates will be scoffed at.Those who continue to support race day medication need to check out racing in Hong Kong.  Their ruling body told a trainer caught with snake venom never to return.  He’s training here in the U.S. Get the picture?  It didn’t fly in Hong Kong.  No problem in the U.S.A.Those supposed to oversee horse racing need to assume a similar get-tough reputation here in the United States.  Kong Kong is drug free.  Period.  Check out their field size, the number of breakdowns, and average starts a horse makes over there. Case closed! We need more leaders like Barry Irwin.  We need fewer self serving vets who are a big part of our problem and public perception.  And we need to get our mandates put in place so those who choose to take an edge–pay a big price.

    Stop pointing the fingers at others.  Point that finger at our own house.  Let’s get our own house in order.

    Tell greed to take a hike.

  • Nucky Thompson

    As an owner I would love to see some tracks card races where no race day medication is permitted. Then we would all compete on a level playing field and hopely this practice would become very popular. What am I thinking ? That will never happen – should have taken my meds today !

  • Barry Irwin

    I will absolutely happen…and sooner than you think. Remember how quickly the Soviet Bloc broke up? That’s what’s gonna happer here Nucky.

  • Barry Irwin

    You have hit the nail right on the head.

  • Nucky Thompson

    But the Soviet Bloc was a huge organization headed by greedy out of touch dictators..wait a minute thats just like the racing  authorities here. I hope it will happen as soon as you believe Barry then hopefully I can save on vet bills and become a bigger owner !

  • Not Shocked

    HYPOCRITE ALERT !!!!!

    If you are so sure that banning race day medication is the answer, then LEAD THE WAY AND IMMEDIATELY CEASE RACING TEAM VALOR HORSES ON ANY MEDICATION.  Try it for the next twelve months and let the results speak for themselves.  Otherwise, all your babbling is pure nonsense.  I guarantee that the first time one of your horses loses a graded stake because it bled you will be standing on your soapbox demanding the use of lasix be allowed.  Until you figure out a way to stop horses from bleeding, Lasix is the easiest and best solution.  You and your disciples who criticize the use of a proven helpful, regulated and reported medication are simply delusional. 

  • Neville

    Ridin’ Dirty?  Your screen name makes it impossible to take your rant on this subject too seriously.

  • 1/8shortofamile

    A very good suggestion NOT SHOCKED.
    Barry, lead the way, put your money where your mouth is!

  • Nucky Thompson

    Ridin’dirty3 ? Does that mean that Ridin’dirty, Ridin’ dirty1 and Ridin’dirty2 were already taken ? Shome mishtake shurely !

  • Neville

    Really? The way I saw it was someone finally spoke up for ethics in this business. The victim was Irwin, not those “poor trainers” that were lying to him. That’s why he hired Motion – which was the answer to the question posed to him.

    The only demonization going on is from a small group of small-minded and greedy people that want to keep the status quo intact. They are trying to smear the folks who are fed up and want a level playing field and a modicum of honesty involved.

  • Edd Roggenkamp

    I wish the race horse owners had a stronger and more  forceful voice. The only way the race horse owners have a voice is to bail out and leave the sport.

    Our organizations are controlled by suppliers.

    TOBA heavily controlled by stallion farms.

    HBPA is like a union, the voice of the trainer, spends 75% of its time defending the 10% of the trainers that cause most of the problems. Lots of vets on the HBPA board, is that a conflict or what? Few owners have any influence.

    Most state breeder associations work only on state incentive issues.

    Racing does not need another organization, but sadly, the only way a Strawbridge or a Hancock or an Irwin can be heard is to go public.

    Remember, when the RACE HORSE OWNERS  exit, the suppliers are in big trouble. No need for breeders, or stallions or vets or even trainers without race horse owners.

  • Ridindirty3

    Looks like Steve Crist’s article in DRF describes the situation pretty well. The investigative reporters for NYT don’t know enough about racing to know how to read the stats. Or don’t care?

  • Djrracingstable

    Hell i’m a trainer and I wouldn’t be the slightest bit bothered if they banned meds altogether, for at least 48 or 72 hrs prior to race time. The only thing I would even consider them allowing, would be Lasix. Although I do believe that lasix should be kept to a lower dosage than what most racing jurisdictions allow.

  • Md trainer

    I could not agree more with this statement.  The media is always using the words “drugs” because they don’t have a clue what they are writing about.  I can assure you as a trainer that has more experience than most and certainly more than any of the press individuals, there is NOTHING that can be used without being found within a short time and thinking that the lowly horse trainer is smart enough or has enough funds behind him or that he can use an illegal drug on all his horses everyday without being found out by one of the many different grooms, hot walkers and assistants he employs is ludicrous!! People are people and plenty of people want to take an edge to win, but i assure you, they can’t.

  • Ridindirty3

    I would just like to see us ENFORCE the the rules we have ………Hell…we haven’t EVEN been able to that!…..are we REALLY gonna accomplish anything positive by changing the rules?

  • sittin’ chilly

     Completely specious argument. It also proves the point: medication is letting  horses perform better, so those that need it (the unsound, sore, bad bleeders) benefit at the expense of those that don’t. The result is a system that does nothing to reward the breeding and maintaining of sound, healthy horses. Asking anyone to not use medication, putting themselves at a disadvantage, is disingenuous and means nothing. Ask instead, “are you willing to run without medication if everyone does the same?”. My answer, and I suspect Barry’s, is yes.

  • Barry Irwin

    Dear Doug, I have heard this argument before and it doesn’t address the point. Nobody is talking about whether drugs are effective. Of course they are. The point is that if racing horses cannot survive without drugging our stock, then we don’t have a viable sport. And the public recognizes this.

    I want race day drugs out of the mix because they are not supportable in a “sport.”

    That doesn’t mean that I am willing to race without drugs when everybody else is and they are legal. This is the same reason that when European trainers bring horses over the Breeders’ Cup, they avail themselves of these opportunities.

    BTW, I am thrilled to know that I have “disciples.” Who’d have thunk it!

    As the man wrote earlier, we have a choice: racing with drugs or no racing at all. This is going to be the choice.

  • Owner

     
    The public doesn’t care if we do/do not have medications (maybe the horseplayers do!!!)
    but that isn’t public perception, that’s a specific group of people that we NEED to appeal to. PETA will claim putting shoes on a horse is unethical…so is that the next conversation after medicine is gone???
     
    The public cares if we have entertainment value equal to or better than going to
    -NFL, NBA, MLB games or going to the movie’s to watch War horse or Seabiscuit.
     
    We offer a terrible product 99% of the time, and we expect to be rewarded for it.
     
    That model won’t work anywhere or anytime.

     
     
     
     
     
     
     

  • Owner

    I am completely against medicine in horseracing.

    Other than medication to maintain a horses health, NOT medication that increases ability to train or race…”theraputic” is too broad a term.

  • Barry Irwin

    Thanks. Hint: in the future you might not want to use a fancy word like “specious” when responding to this particular screen name. BTW, I used to ownthe dam of a filly named Specious that I bought from Elmendorf Farm. Specious beat colts, as I recall, in the Lawrence Realization.

  • PortTownGirl

    “Nothing any horseman or veterinarian can say to explain the positive
    benefits of race day meds can alter that public perception.”  The reason is that horse racing is an international sport and no other major horse racing countries need it.  I respectfully submit that you take the blinkers off and conform with the rest of the successful racing world.  Or stay the way you are, and continue in your downward spiral until American racing shrivels up and dies or becomes totally irrelevant.

  • Ridindirty3

     I agree with you! The emphasis has been on quantity over quality…for a long time! What would the NFL-NBA_MLB look like if they had 3 or 4 times as many teams amd played 12 months a year?

  • aggadan

    some of us like you barry   Your not evil as many think you are.  Your good for racing. Some just are greeneyed.   Drugs are part of the game when there not  guess what the trainer standings will change

  • Gfpowell

    I’m a TB trainer and I agree with you. Further, most TB’s will protect themselves from pain, but that inherent nature is not optimal when masked with meds resulting in breakdowns. I’m very surprised that The Jockey’s Guild has not weighed in on this argument. It is the TBs & jockeys who bare the brunt of the breakdowns. I’m all for NO raceday medication & to make it easier for regulatory matters: NO raceday medication on ANY track on raceday! This would eliminate confusion – don’t you think?

  • Former Bettor

    Good thought, Nucky.  Maybe Keeneland’s management will sieze the opportunity.  If so, I (and others like me)  might even come out of retirement and place a bet on the race!!!

     

  • Jimculpepper

    Diuretics likewise remobilize calcium, causing kidney stones and decalcified bones.  Just imagine  having to “pee like a racehorse” with kidney stones.

  • TOBA director, R McDonald

    Bingo Barry! Thanks fo articulating what we all (and I mean everybody who wants to continue participating in this business much longer) should be thinking. You hit the nail on the head. Lets get on with it TOBA and Graded Stakes committee. 

  • aggadan

    you mean like  nascar does with restrictor plate racing. LOL  never happen  the claimers wont be able to make it to the gate. Unless you use an ambulance to get them there 

  • Larryt123

    Athletes in every other sport have physical problems. If Tom Brady gets sacked and comes up a little sore he has the opportunity to take an aspirin or tylenol at half time. Thoroughbreds are no different and every case should be documented and treated on an individual basis. Medication should be allowed only an individual basis and documented in racing form. Medication isn’t killing the industry the lack of preparation and promotion is. Racing needs to be brought back into the national spot light. The only way this will happen is by decreasing the amount of racing which will increase the quality of the sport and allow for for medication to be regulated on a national basis. Once the product is restored then it will be able to be promoted and gain popularity. 

  • Owner

    Not Shoked…MAYBE if they can NOT run to their known potential without lasix/medication. They should not be on the racetrack??? As far as I’m concerned people can make a living any way they like, but medicating, running horses for a small % (peanuts) of their earnings is incentivizing
    the mismedication, mismanagement, and abuse horses.

    We tried to make it the sport of claimers, instead of the sport of kings. And that product doesn’t work.

    Very unfortunatley for the horse LOVER this is a very expensive endeavor…

    One which is NOT a RIGHT, but a PRIVLEDGE for people that can financially sustain an operation without compromising it’s integrity.

  • Grarick

    Bravo, Barry. You are on the right side of the issue, even if for the wrong reason. Race-day medication is just wrong for the horse, and it muddies the selection that should take place on the track for determining breeding prospects. The public is becoming educated on the subject. Calling it “perception” is an insult. It’s not “perception.” It IS reality.

  • Ridindirty3

    But…evidently seriously enough..for you to comment?

  • Ridindirty3

     HEY! Nuck!  Yeah…plain ole Ridin’dirty WAS taken!

  • Barry Irwin

    Gina, there is more than one reason. Of course I am on the side of the other issue, but that issue cannot win. The perception issue can. That is why is zeroed in on it. You don’t know what insults are until you’ve submitted a story to the Paulick Report! Ha ha ha.

  • harebear

    Lasix is only performance enhancing when it keeps a horse from bleeding!! It is the illegal drugs that are causing 99% of the issues and until that can be controlled by tracks that don’t enforse the rules nothing will change!! 

  • wallyhorse

    It’s like the old saying, “perception is reality.” The medication issue is a serious one and needs to be addressed, as previously done in a five-year plan of mine that would phase out Lasix as follows:

    2012: No lasix allowed for ALL two year old races along with the Triple Crown and Breeders’ Cup events AND selected Grade 1 events that would include all such races for three year olds preceding the Kentucky Derby along with the Kentucky Oaks, Arlington Million, Jockey Club Gold Cup, Travers, Santa Anita Handicap, Pacific Classic, Joe Hirsch Turf Classic and Beldame among others.  This part is at least being done by Breeders’ Cup, Ltd. this year with the two year old BC events.

    2013: The ban on lasix expands to ALL races restricted to two and three year olds, as well as ALL Grade 1 and Grade 2 stakes events. Three year olds would only be permitted to use lasix when facing older horses in races where lasix would still be allowed.

    2014: The ban on lasix expands to include ALL Graded Stakes and non-Graded stakes carrying a purse of at least$100,000. In addition, non-graded stakes where lasix is allowed would be barred from consideration for Graded status at this point.

    2015: The ban on lasix expands to include all non-claiming races, including Allowance Optional Claiming and starter events.

    2016: Total ban on lasix.

    This to me would allow for a phase-out on lasix as well as immediately strengthen the breed and get rid of a good number of the cheaters. 

  • Hossracergp

    True. I don’t think John Q. Public is sitting at home saying “I’d really love to go to the races, except everyone is running on lasix and bute”. Trying to clean up the public perception of racing is like trying to make prostitution politically correct. 
    Dollar for dollar going to the races for a night of entertainment just can’t compete with all of the other things out there. Is John Q. Public attending fox hunts and polo matches in vast numbers or do those sports also have an image issue? Maybe racing is just a dinosaur whose time on this earth is over.

  • Smitty

    In Europe there is no Lasix.So people here in the USA say why cant we have lasix free racing?There are obviously plenty of arguments for and against.But one factor must be realised.The environment of the training and racing of theses horses.In Europe,85% turf racing.Other surface synthetic.In all races they jump out of the gate and every fraction is faster than the last.Here every fraction is slower than the past one.Check out the average distance of the races.So many there are longer than 1 1/8th mile.Lots at 1 1/2 miles.Here if the racing secretary writes a race at 11/16th mile,he has 3 horses less than if he wrote it at 1 mileSo many trainers just cant handle it.Look at how the horses are warmed up befor a race in Europe,no pony and plenty of galloping to the post,they cover the distance of the race,befor they run.I am not knocking the racing here,I love the speed of American racing.Its just necessary to look at whats natural for the horse and whats not.If thats the style of racing you want,then you must suffer the consequences.Its like the Synthetics,we changed the surface from rock hard sand,to rubber or whatever you call it.but we never changed our way of running and training and could not believe why it did not work.Do you believe that when the NASCAR boys go to a different track they use the same tires and drive the same way.If they did they would need more than Lasix!

  • aggadan

    Your right the public doesnt care. The problem is we have a few small people looking to put themselves in position to run racing there way. starts from a congressmen and a group looking to rewrite medication rules.

  • Gfpowell

    Barry, Are there any breakdown statistics from Europe? Since they don’t allow race day medications I would really like to know if there is any difference vs USA.

  • Runeblaze

    here here someone who gets it. Without spectators/fans you have no sport!

  • Garrett Redmond

    Flogging and dope, equally abhorent in the public mind.
    Ban both.

  • Garrett Redmond

    Edd,

    I agree.  Keep on slugging.  I’m tired.

  • Garysherlock

    BARRY i AGREE WITH ALL YOU HAVE STATED EXCEPT THE PART THAT WE SHOULD BAN lASIX FOR GRADED RACES IF WE SHOULD BAN LASIX THEN IT SHOULD APPLY TO ALL RACES. i DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY NO ONE IN THEY INDUSTRY HASN;T COME UP WITH A EASY SOULTION! WE ALL KNOW YOU CAN;T JUST ELEMINATE DRUGS FROM CURRENT RACING HORSES AS IT WOULD CAUSE TO MUCH FORM REVERSAL BUT JUST START WITH 2YOS OF 2013 NOT ALLOWED ANY DRUGS THEN THE NEXT YEAR YOU DO 2yos and 3yos then have drug free  4yos and you could give a break to them with wieght or conditions.
    I have 15 2yos when I enter them I could race with out lasix with no problem but only if everybody else is drug free. I trained many years before Lasix and bleeding was not a big issue but it is peformance enhancing no question ! Like Clenbutrol you dont need it except to compete with everyone using it! It should be zero tollorance and save California owners about 8,000.000 a year Yet when suggested this at TWO medication meetings at Del Mar Dr Arthur defended the drug, I think the Vetinarians need to have some culpability in this drug culture. and not increase joint injection to compensate for the reduction in medication.

  • FourCats

    As a horse owner, I am very much in favor of no Lasix, IF the veterinarian community says that that is what is best for the health and well-being of the horse.  However, I do not consider myself (nor 99% of the people who comment on this subject) as being qualified in any way to judge whether that is so.
     
    While the public’s perception of racing is very important, to say that it is the only thing that matters is ridiculous.  If what the public believes is false, then the proper response is to re-educate the public.  The big problem is that the public gets its “facts” from uninformed sources or from sources with a different agenda (such as eliminating racing).
     
    Veterinarians should be the primary source of medical decisions for horses because they have studied and worked for years to become knowledgeable in that area.  Some people, for reasons of their own, have tried to say that many veterinarians are unethical and just out for their own benefit.  I’m sure that there are a few such unethical veterinarians out there just as there are unethical people in every profession.  I, personally, have never met such a veterinarian.  Every vet that has treated or been consulted on my horses have only had the welfare of my horses in mind.

  • Barry Irwin

    If you believe this, why in the hell are you coming here? Do you frequent funerals in your spare time as a hobby?

  • Barry Irwin

    Gary, if groups like the Breeders’ Cup and TOBA are having such a hard time just banning drugs for 2yo Graded races, how on earth are they going to get it done for all drugs for all races? I think TOBA needs to take it one step at a time, but they need to do in 2012, not 2013. You are totally right re clenbuterol.

  • Not Going Away

    in Europe, they TRAIN ON LASIX!! To say there is no lasix over there shows what you know.

  • Nucky Thompson

    Hey Barry , any chance in the future that Team Valor will use Jamie Ness as a trainer ? He seems to be a very Lucky Chappy.

  • brussellky

    I agree as well, and know this is off point, but the recent trend of running 11 or 12 races a day 4 days a week is penny wise and pound foolish as well (as opposed to 8 or 9 races over 5 or 6 days).  I’ve been going to the races my entire life and 6 to 6 1/2 hours for a 12 race card wears me out.  I can only imagine how this affects a novice.

  • Kettle and Pot

    Not trying to troll. Just holding up the mirror. (14.5 million viewers watched the post-raceinterview of the 2011 Derby on NBC.). Again, good points you make. Just sayin…

  • Grarick

     In Europe one CAN use lasix in training, but most trainers don’t. Shows what you know.

  • Grarick

     The last numbers I had, which are now about seven years old, put U.S. breakdowns at 1.5 per 1,000 starts and breakdowns in England at 0.65 per 1,000 starts. Hong Kong had the lowest in the owrld at 0.58 per 1,000 starts.

  • Matthew Martini

    Most of the people I’ve tried to introduce to the sport object because of points #3 and #4 on Mr. Irwin’s list: they think that there is not a level playing field, and do not like that the horses race on drugs. This keeps even people who like horses from watching the athletes in the sport. It is unfortunate, as there are so many great athletes on the track these days. The sport is about the athletes, first and foremost. Who didn’t like the “throwdown” between Havre de Grace and Blind Luck last year in Delaware? It was majestic. Too bad major national television networks did not care to cover it, because sports fans at large didn’t care enough about the sport to watch it. It was breathtaking. The sport had lost its audience not then, but long ago. . . .

    Additionally, in my opinion, the public’s perception of the sport also keeps people from wanting to learn and participate in the gaming side (i.e., handicapping). The gaming part is problematical, with 20+ percent takeout on many bets.  With the learning curve to develop one’s handicapping skills, and having adequate bankroll to withstand run-outs, it becomes financial suicide to learn it. The integrity of the sport needs to be pristine in the public’s eye to get new customers to the gaming side, otherwise overall growth will never happen. It requires symbiosis. Getting rid of race-day meds is a necessity, and so is lowering takeout.

    We need more articles like this one.

  • stillriledup

    Barry, i love your passion and i do believe that you are correct on almost all your points, if not all of them. I did roll my eyes when you said “PeTA is right” but other than wash your mouth out type words, you did good in my book!

    Since this is mostly an article about perception, let me talk about the perception from a betting standpoint.

    We all know the math and the math says that extremely few bettors will win in the long run and most will be losers. I don’t have the exact numbers, but if 1 out of 100 bettors is a consistent or lifetime winner, that’s a lot. An analogy would be if a customer went into a bakery and purchased stale bread, showed up the next day to exchange the bread (for money back or a new loaf) and the owner had to apologize and make up an excuse as to why the bread was stale and how it won’t happen again. How long do you think it would take before the customer decided to not go to that bakery anymore? Most customers might never go back again if they got stale goods and even more than that wouldnt go back if they got stale goods twice.

    So, if we look at the bettors in the racing industry as customers of a bakery and those customers of the racetrack consistently lose their money, its really up to the racetrack to ‘convince’ them that its still a good idea to come back and try again, even though they got ‘stale’ goods last time. (losing tickets = stale bread)

    Now ,i don’t know that the tracks have done anything to ‘convince’ almost-out-the-door bettors to come back and give it one more shot, the tracks have really created no perception that you can actually win in the long run that i know of.

    Im not sure what most bettors think, maybe most of them think that they’re going to be the ones who beat this game, they’re going to be the 1 out of 100 and that ‘hope’ keeps them going. OR, they realize they can’t win and continue to go because they’re paying for the ‘rush’ of the gamble, the ‘rush’ of action and they just have given up hope of ever being a consistent winner, but enjoy the rush of action so much, they keep going even though their bank accounts are being drained.

    I think that most racetracks just open their doors and rely on the ‘gambling rush’ to get most of their customers to keep coming back. If the human body didnt create endorphin rush that you get when your money is at risk in a fast 1 minute and 8 seconds, than i’d bet there would be no racing industry left.

    So, what do my points have to do with Barry’s points? Its perception. Barry feels that many people who either leave the game or don’t come in the first place are doing so because they feel that  trainers put drugs in their horses. I think its possible that anyone who doesnt come to the races or quits the game isnt really quitting because of drugs in horses…they’re quitting because they’ve lost their money and they needed a ‘good excuse’ to convince themselves this is really the reason why.

    The big question is this. If a bettor was a consistent winner and was making thousands of dollars a month thru the windows, would they stop betting because they hated the fact that trainers used lasix and horses needed race day medication to compete? Would YOU quit this game if you were a winning bettor? Do you know of any WINNING bettors who said “im going to stop betting because the poor horses are being drugged, i can’t take it anymore”?

    I think the perception is ‘negative’ because most bettors lose and they need excuses to either justify the losses (im losing because trainers cheat is what many of them will tell you). Quite a few Losing bettors are very bitter and there are a LOT of them and when they speak, they don’t speak in glowing terms about this industry because after all, its the cheating and the drugs that made them lose their betting money and not the fact that the math (high takeouts, great horseplayers as your competition, etc) is stacked up against them.

  • Guest

    Here is the take from an outsider (living in Europe).

    Horse A and Horse B race against each other with no Lasix.
    Horse B bleeds and is beaten by horse A
    Horse B is given Lasix and the horses race again (same conditions, distance, etc)
    Horse B wins

    Ergo, Horse B has had it’s natural ability enhanced by the administration of Lasix.

    The fact is that the perception of horsemen outside the US is that the American breed has been weakened by the permissive use of drugs.  There have been countless comments in British racing papers/magazines from respected pinhookers and bloodstock agents wh oopenly say they are not willing to buy as many horses from the US as they have done in the past.

    I have seen the figures that prove that fewer and fewer US bred horses are being imported to Europe.

    In 2008 720 US-bred (by which I mean by US based stallions, not where the horse was foaled) 2 year olds and 804 US-bred 3 year olds raced in Britain, Ireland, France, Germany and Italy.
    In 2011 this had fallen to 426 2 year olds and 659 3 year olds.  A fall of 40.9% and 18.1% respectively in just 3 years.  This fall cannot be blamed on reduced foal crops as the largest crop of all was conceived in 2008 – the 2 year olds of 2011.

  • Turnbackthealarm

    I just visited Gulfstream live for the first time since the new foam whips came into use.  Although I am aware that they supposedly don’t hurt and are easier on the horses, try explaining that to the newbies as they hear the LOUD pop, pop, pop, pop as the horses came down the stretch.  I was appalled.

  • Turnbackthealarm

    I agree 100% with your editorial and hope like heck racing makes the changes you suggest.

  • SteveG

    In terms of athletic competition in any sport, is there a more fundamental choice which impacts “public perception” than whether or not the competitors perform while medicated or not medicated?  Any sport.

    I can’t think of anything more basic & I do not think any sport is immune from that fundamental in terms of…perception.

    I believe Mr. Irwin is exactly correct, in the broadest sense.  Those who disagree on details are missing that point, IMO.

    Those who post here (who know more) and intend to hang the validty of their argument on nuance (right, wrong or indifferent) are arguing at a level which is of NO concern, not even in the vocabulary, to the public which Mr. Irwin refers.

    I’m not saying nuance is not important but that nuance exists in the province of process & not perception.  If anyone has any doubt, simply count how important “image” is to successful businesses & how their processes are led by it.

  • Turnbackthealarm

    One of the main concerns that seems to be an obstacle for eliminating drugs in the sport is, as you said, many of the current trainers know no other way.  Also, with bleeding being heritable, our bloodstock is riddled with bleeders.  In order not to decimate the small owners and trainers whose operations run on a shoestring, as well as the big breeders who have a vested interest in not revealing that their fancy stud can’t throw anything but bleeders, there could be a two tiered system of racing.  The top class races can be run without Lasix and Bute and the lower class races can be run with them.  Horses that run on meds have their Jockey Club papers marked that they are NOT breeding eligible.  That will keep the little guys in business plus those that do have a problem horse will have an option to at least make some of his investment back by running in those restricted races. (People still bet on and enjoy low class claiming races at tracks across America, so I don’t think a two tiered system would hurt handle.)  The top class and breeding race restrictions against drugs will direct the breeders to mares and studs that can throw babies that can run and win without the juice.  Within a few generations the gene pool will be cleaned up and horses will be healthier for it.

  • Rachel

    This is an outstanding post!

  • Turnbackthealarm

    If you don’t have enough money to care for your animals properly, perhaps you shouldn’t be in the sport.

  • Turnbackthealarm

    If the amount of NSAIDS in the horses’ systems is not enough to enhance it’s performance, why use it at all??????  

  • Lou Baranello

    Mr. Irwin, As one who shares your beliefs I offer my own analysis of this problem.  I also want to comment on a post by Smitty.  It is a fact that the longer races offer larger purses.  That fact remains from the classic races down to beaten races for the minimum claiming price. Why then is it more difficult for racing secretaries to fill long races?  The answer is based upon perception and I will get to it in a moment.  All members of the pro medication group have a common bond.  Although I know your stated position on this issue I do not know if your horses currently run on medication.  Here is what escapes me.  The money of owners is used to purchase horses.  The same source of funds pays trainers and Veterinarians.  Why are some paymasters not in control of the acts and services they desire for their horses?  All right, some answers.  Why are long races more difficult to fill?
    The answer: Perceptions held by trainers.  Who or what is the driving force behind continued medication?  Answer: Trainers.  What common bond exists between veterinarians and trainers?  Increasing their revenue.  Granted there are times when owners should defer to the expertise of veterinarians and trainers, but on broad policy matters such as “racing medications” I would get a completely unbiased opinion.  Then, if after consultation I am anti medication, I would not continue to engage a trainer who is acting contrary to my wishes.  Everything does not have to come from legislation.  Owners have the power in this issue and can effect the removal of medication with their own check books, despite the division in their ranks.           

  • race

    You have a point with regard to our Sport with Meds is a sport of Claimers. And by no means do I mean that Claiming races are not a function of racing, but Med’s do help our little guy’s run to help with the feed bill. So what’s the answer? Let the Blue Blood Graded Races run without meds’ starting this year (for 2 year olds), and set a time frame for all other Horses born let’s say 2013 or 2014 to race without. It would give everyone enough time to grumble and get over it. Then adjust or our Sport is in big trouble. How many more articles do we want on the front page of the New York Times?

  • Not Shocked

    Picture this image on national television:   At the Breeders Cup,  Trevor Dennman’s voice echoing loudly, “…On the turn for home, something is amiss with Animal Kingdom and he is being pulled up at the top pf the stretch…..”  After the race is over the camera shot switches over to a now unsaddled Animal kingdom being walked in circles as the horse ambulance pulls up.  John Velazquez is shaking his head as he is standing there holding his tack, and Randy Moss on the NBC broadcast points out two things, “That Animal Kingdom appears to be sound, and John Velazquez’s pants are know heavily covered in red, and as the horses head blright red blood can be seen dripping from his nostrils.  Caton Bredar who is out there on her pony, rides up to Velazquez as the camera shows her near Animal Kingdom, blood dripping from his nose shakes his head while getting on the horse ambulance, splattering blood on the people all around them.  Caton asks Johnny what happened and he said, “The horse bled because the ownership thinks Lasix is bad for horses, see what happens when people think they know more than they do? A twenty dollar shot of Lasix, and this horse is standing in the winners circle instead of going home in the horse ambulance Caton !!”

    Kenny Mayne is standing near the unsaddling area talking to His trainer, who would only say, “Look, I tried to tell him what could happen, but he refused to listen”

    Back to Randy Moss’s voiceover as they show the slo mo isolated replay on Animal Kingdom…”Look there, as we slow down the replay, you can actually see the blood splashing back at the rider and into the air !!! This is why a simple, inexpensive, reported and regulated medicine, is sometimes needed to help these athletes.  While it isn’t life threatening, the PETA people are sure going to have a field day with this imagery. And why, All because one owner wrongly insisted that therapeutic medication should be banned”   “Who gets hurt ? The sport, and the bettors who backed Animal Kingdom to favortisim” 

    The owner refused to attend the press conference and made himself unavailable for comment as he was taunted by fans as he hurriedly left the grandstand. they could be heard shouting “Twent dollars and he’s a winner Barry” and “Now do you believe horses bleed ” and see “You wanted no lasix, how’s that for karma ?”

    Editorials appear in numerous papers in the following days about how all veterinary science should be used to allow these horses to perform to their potential, not robbing the bettors so an Animal kingdom debacle doesn’t happen again. 

  • RayPaulick

     Not Shocked…Can you give me ONE example of this happening in Europe or Asia or anywhere else where race-day medication is not permitted?

    You should take up writing fiction or scripts for horror movies. Maybe comedies.

  • Owner

    Yes, phase out the medication over time…a short period of time.
    Start with horses born in 2012…the majority of horses on the track won’t be racing in 2 years…so 2/3 years, assuming they keep up testing/penalize violators (I mean really penalize/ban). That’s major, positive change.

    PETA will have something else like for us to defend…we’re clippling them too short, or their shoes aren’t soft enough!!!

  • McGov

    Tom Brady can make a decision to take medication…a horse cannot.  This is the perception and the reality.

  • Not Shocked

    Ray,

    We’re not talking about Europe or Asia, or anywhere else.  We are talking about the realities of racing in America.  With some research, I’m confident I could cite numerous examples of that happening in Europe, and as for it happening in here in America, haven’t you ever seen the comments “Eased, Bled”  in a chart ?

    Why do you call that fiction ?  Do you believe it couldn’t happen ? If you want to have a conversation about reality and public perception, how can you dismiss the above hypothetical ?

  • McGov

    I truly hope that your skin is thick enough to continue making your opinions public.  We need more Barry Irwin’s.

  • voiceofreason

    Picture this image on national television:   At the Breeders Cup, 
    Trevor Dennman’s voice echoing loudly, “…On the turn for home,
    something is amiss with Animal Kingdom and he is being pulled up at the
    top pf the stretch…..”  After the race is over the camera shot
    switches over to a now unsaddled Animal kingdom being blanketed in white.  John Velazquez is shaking his head as
    he is standing there holding his tack, and Randy Moss on the NBC
    broadcast points out two things, “That Animal Kingdom appears to have broken down. It looks like the jockey is ok, but unfortunately, this is the 8th breakdown this year on the track here at Churchill Downs, and the second nationally televised breakdown.”  Caton Bredar who is out there on her pony, rides up to
    Velazquez as the camera shows her near Animal Kingdom, blood dripping
    from his nose shakes his head: “I’ll be okay. Little bloody nose. He seemed okay at the start. I just can’t tell anymore… It’s just that the horses continue to race fewer and fewer times. I don’t know why, but this seems to be the fate of the industry. Maybe it’s breeding, maybe it’s training. Maybe we can  get some sanity back in the game in terms of medications and veterinary access to these animals.”  Caton asks Johnny what
    happened and he said, “Every horse in every race now must run on
    Lasix, Bute, a bunch of known and unknown medications. They can’t make it around the track otherwise. We all know we need to create advantage for us to win at a regular basis, and some trainers will just go farther, or use more cutting-edge techniques to get the job done. These techniques take risk, and the one that pays the bill, like Animal Kingdom, is the horse! I know you don’t want to hear this, but our horses can only race 4-5 times in a career nowadays, so this was going to happen here, or next race.”

    An owner is standing near the unsaddling area talking to His
    trainer, who would only say, “If I don’t win, I don’t get horses. If the industry isn’t going to regulate, then it’s a free for all. And the industry has spoken. They give awards to the winners, and playing it fairly, gets you nothing. Taking advantage gets you the Eclipse award.”

    Oh wait… this HAS happened on National television. Sorry, nevermind.
     

  • C2

    “Until you figure out a way to stop horses from bleeding, Lasix is the easiest and best solution.”

    Ah yes because it’s a fast easy fix, it must be right,right?  Seriously?  Figuring out a way to fix the problem is pretty simple, start breeding horses that aren’t bleeders or have other heritable issues.  Stop breeding for the sales ring and start breeding for the race horse.  Wow that took all of 30 seconds, tops.

    I got news for ya, he’s exactly right.  Public perception of this business, even by those in other equine disciplines, is very POOR.  And it really is everything when trying to attract a new audience.  The public does not view horses as things, it views them as animals, pets.  The horrors of Barbara and Eight Belles showed up that.  Then we received an amazing gift named Zenyatta, shared by the Mosses.  It’s time to pick up the football and run with it before the next onscreen tragedy.  Loading them up on crap and sending them out to crash and burn doesn’t exactly play well to your desired viewership.  We need to get back raising sound race horses trained by real horsemen, not gazelles “trained” by a stop watch and a needle.

  • C2

    * Barbaro – got corrected by technology. ugh.

  • Ridindirty3

    Exactly! ALWAYS…remember one thing…..in this business…. BS baffles brains!

  • Tinky

    “With some research, I’m confident I could cite numerous examples…”

    That’s not a serious argument. Do your research, then perhaps readers will take you seriously. And while you’re at it, be sure to explain to us why horses racing in the U.S. shouldn’t be capable of racing successfully without Lasix – as they did for about 100 years before the advent of the drug.

  • Grarick

     Not Shocked, let me know when you’re coming over. I’ll clear my schedule so that I can stand with you at the horse exit so you can see every one of our starters coming in after the race. Please. I URGE you to come and see for yourself. Maybe then you’ll write that horror movie that you COMPLETELY MADE UP.

  • horse owner

    Wow. Still no mention of the more that 20,000 TBs slaughtered every year. Public’s going to hate that one more than the drugging problems. And still, no one will talk.

  • horse owner

    Ban slaughter, too. Most abhorent of all!

  • Circusticket

    Very interesting comments but nobody ever raises the point that Lasix has been proven to reduce the incidence and severity of bleeding when used once, and only once.  The horses in the South African study were treated once with Lasix and once with a placebo.  What if Lasix becomes less effective after long term use?  What if Lasix has negative health effects with long term use?  Why does everyone assume that Lasix is therapeutic and is good for the welfare of the horse?  It would be a scandal if any human drug was approved for use after only testing it once.  Hello?  Anybody?

  • Martep123

    I totally agree with Mr. Irwin. I cannot believe these trainers defending Lasix. Especially the ones that were around before Lasix became legal in New York. Are they blind!!!
     

  • frankie conditions

    While I think Lasix needs to fruther discussed as I (and maybe not the public) can see both sides of the argument. When Graham Motion, with roots from Europe,  comes out and says Lasix ought not to be banned he is a most credible and knowledgeable source. Mr. Motion contends that its effective and a known quantity vs. if its banned “other” solutions will be employed to stop bleeding (meaning illegal substances)While Lasix continues to be debattted there’s little argument (except from the wink and nod crude headed by a trainer that says on national T.V. that his Derby winner raced on steroids) that there is little effective policing going on today. The “inner circle” at most tracks has a damn good idea of the trainers and barns that don’t play by the rules. It’s not hard to hear the “whispers” and the honest trainers that do care about the welll being of the horse have to decide “do I join them”  or hope eventually the elusive and evasive “powers that be” will do the right thing ?
    I think we all can agree policing and penalizing offenders based on current rgulations is a great first step. What’s holding racing back from doing that ?

  • Donna Brothers

    Well said, Barry.

  • Gfpowell

    Very few TBs bleed (without Lasix) to the extent you describe and those TBs shouldn’t be racing anyways! There are many more issues surrounding the administration of Lasix itself: One, a PrIVATE vet is sticking a needle into its vein on race day. If we eliminated race day medication then there would be absolutely no execuses for anybody to enter that stall with a needle – no confusion, no excuses – period. It has been contended that Lasix can mask illegal drugs and smear blood tests so why not just eliminate altogether. I’m focusing on the cheating aspect of allowing Lasix, but it takes a physical toll on the racehorse as well and it us just not worth the benefits. Our racehorses are walking chemical quagmires in many instances, legal or otherwise, and it is taking its toll on the breed.

  • Ridindirty3

    What about this PERCEPTION….when a horse comes up positive……the penalties are SEVERE and are made public. It does NO GOOD and takes FOREVER to try to change the rules when the SAME guys you’re trying to catch….are STILL gonna cheat! Forget discussions about medications…….ENFORCE your rules! Whatever they are!

  • Hossracergp

    It’s happened here in big races. Remember Demons Begone? How about Summer Squall bleeding from the nostrils while galloping at Pimlico before the Preakness? Still didn’t stop people from promoting them as stallions or stop people from breeding to them did it?

  • Lauradeseroux

    I have been a proponent of this suggestion. Claimers are “cheaper” than “good” horses for a myriad of reasons, one of them being a tendency to get nervous in training and before a race. Hypertension is a major cause of EIPH (bleeding) and this has been explained in lay terms as a drowning-like experience. It is cause and effect and becomes a vicious cycle. Class horses are inherently more relaxed and easier to train than the cheaper claimers. I am with Barry on the banning of race day meds but suggest we explore the possibility of letting the Claimers race on lasix. After all, they probably need it and would not affect the gene pool.

  • Gosley

    I had a little horse I claimed cheap a few years ago. I shipped him up to Penn National for a race and the minute I put him in the barn he started urinating. By the time the vet came I told him what was going on and to give him a minimum of lasix. The little guy was so conditioned he went into the urinating regimen before he even got the shot! It was sad to watch. I got him adopted after that. Turned out he had a knee problem anyway.I already have two broken down mares at home but at least I am able to breed them- I cannot say enough good things about the thoroughbred retirement people. Anyway, that is my Lasix story. They run what every 3-4 weeks and go through this. And here is a little whisper to all those who speak out in support of lasix as if it were just a “choice”. There are natural ways of dealing with the bleeding problem. Horses in the US are for the most part overtrained. The bute and banamine and all the rest let trainers crank them past their natural endurance level and you get exercise-induced pulmonary hemoraging (EIPH). Somethin’s gotta give.

  • Lauradeseroux

    I don’t think the ‘non breeding’ stamp on the Jockey Club papers is a good idea. There are breeding programs in many states with very modest stallions to whom the cheaper fillies and mares are bred to. We can’t put them out of business.

  • Djmtoy

    Bet he will not do that

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OPYWICKFKTSPHHUKZQGUAM75JQ BILLIE

    Forget about lasix for now…I took a friend to a race one time just for fun….in a 5.5f race, I told him I am going to bet the 2 horse….he ask why?….I told him that the inside track is fast and nobody was going to catch this speed horse….he had a quizzical look and we watch the race….The horse barely won….so he asked again about the inside track and I proceeded to tell him about track bias….after listening to me intently, his only reply was….”THAT IS SO F STUPID”…..why would anybody bet any race if even the track is not on the up and up is what he said in a nutshell….I was going to tell him about drugs but thought better….

    and that folks is why we are losing fans…..

  • Trainer-owner Toni

    Fourcats, track vets make their living pushing drugs – they don’t bill for showing up at the stall unless they dispense or do a procedure.  There is a tremendous mark up in the drugs as well.  Don’t for a minute think most vets are doing what’s right for the horse.  They are making their mortgage payments, putting food on the table, repaying student loans …. pushing drugs is their main income.  To rely on them to change the system is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house. 

  • ExactaGirl

    YES! Our sport is dying, and we need to take action! No raceday drugs!

  • I’mWithYou

    Barry & Fellow Owners,

    Barry, you’ve started the process by speaking up. Now as owners, we need to step up and start steering this ship. We have the money and power to do so and we just need to unite. 

    Let’s start off with developing a set of criteria that trainers must meet prior to being eligible to train for us. Then, develop an approved trainer list. It really wouldn’t take much for us to put this together and it would start us moving in the right direction. 

    The good news is that there are trainers out there that share our concerns about the direction of the industry. As for the others, they will conform to our standards in order to have access to our horses or we will expose them for what they are and push them out of the game.

  • 1/8shortofamile

    Ray,

    You need to spend more time in the stables and less behind the keyboard. Some of your comments are showing lack of credibility!

  • 1/8shortofamile

    Hear, Hear!

  • Barry Irwin

    No problem McGov

  • Barry Irwin

    Knocking me is not going to change what I believe in. An old timer told me that every knock is a boost from people like you.

  • Barry Irwin

    Thanks Donna. Much appreciated.

  • Barry Irwin

    Well stated.

  • FourCats

    You are of course entitled to your opinion, but my experience with veterinarians with my horses does not support your viewpoint.  What is the basis for your opinion?  Is it based on your own personal experience or is it based on something else?

  • 1/8shortofamile

    You like to use the words troll and cronies whenever your own words come back to haunt you!

  • 1/8shortofamile

    Dear Ray,

    I read the post saying that I was banned obviously for not patting you and Barry on the back like all your blind followers. However, this post got through so therefore I will ban myself until I can blindly follow you and yours!

    Those who can do, those that can’t teach, those that can’t do either write about those that do and teach.

  • RayPaulick

    Not sure what you’re referring to, but if we banned everyone who was critical this would be a lonely place. We reserve the right to delete or moderate comments, and will continue to do so.

  • voiceofreason

    It should be easy to find “trainers out there that share our concerns about the direction of the industry”… they are the ones winning at a 2% clip. :/

  • Pat Turner

    Barry,  the use of drugs has enabled all of us in the sport to delude ourselves into thinking we are witnessing greatness when we watch a horse win the Derby, a Breeders Cup, a Grade I.  Before the use of bute and lasix the truly great horses rose to the top without the aid of these things. The soundest horses who could breathe were the great ones of the past. All of us need to accept the wrenching changes coming in our sport and realize that if we used to train and run good horses without chemical enhancement, we can do it again. 

     Saying that two year old stake horses will run drug free but the rest of the crop will be allowed to compete with chemical help is ludicrous. Either we stop racing horses on drugs or we don’t. I realize that there is an entire generation of trainers who has never run a horse without medication and so can’t imagine how to function without it.

     Trainers, owners and breeders will have to experience a radical shift in their perception of their own role in racing or the public will continue to perceive all of us as heartless, greedy people who view the horses in our care as nothing more than fur covered race cars.

  • AngelaFromAbilene

    Are your horses racehorses and are your vets “trackvets?”  There is a BIG difference between a “trackvet” and your local veterinarian!  My local vet will not even vaccinate any of my horses without calling my “trackvet.”

  • AngelaFromAbilene

    As an owner and a trainer, when Mr. Irwin said he was tired of trainers lying to him, I applauded.  Lots of trainers lie to their owners about everything, just to keep the day money coming in. 

  • AngelaFromAbilene

    Ban all raceday meds and get back to TRAINING horses.  If a horse needs ANYTHING on raceday, it does NOT need to be running.  Time is what most of them need but time is money and most do not when to spend it when the vet has a shot that will get ‘em right on over to the gates.  

  • I’mWithYou

    Not sure how to take your reply…

    If you were just making a joke… Ha Ha, I get it. You may be right.

    Either way, a trainer’s winning percentage is a non-issue at this stage of the game. Without a sport to play, everyone’s winning percentage will be zero.

  • Joe

    The answer is that your “little guy” should be healthy and fit enough to train and run without drugs. Horses should not be drugged, deceived and compromised to pay one’s feed bill. Welfare and safety should always be #1. Owners of “little guys” should consider owning fewer horses if needed. Total transparency and honesty re. equine health records from birth would lead to less drugs being used and cosmetic surgeries, more patience, better horsemanship, healthier, stronger, happier horses and overall cost savings.

  • Barry Irwin

    Pat, with all due respect, I think the first step in the process to eliminate race day meds has to come this year and the best chance to making progress is to start with the 2yo in graded stakes. This thing needs to happen, but we must be realistic. I am working my hardest to bring about at least some progress. So let’s be realistic.

  • Barry Irwin

    Since you have no identity, nobody can properly ascertain which category you fit into.

  • Not Shocked

    Count the number of horses that broke down on the World cup card, that would be 3, making your medication free racing argument get thrown out the window !! Maybe you ought to rethink your pious medication free racing argument as a means to save the game.  You are seriously delusional if you believe controlling bleeding, and a small amount of bute are the cause of the trouble in the game.  Your obsession with people choosing not to reveal their names to this collection of psycho posters is equally laughable. 

  • Stanley inman

    I think she was by speak john.

  • Pat Turner

    I appreciate every effort to get the medication situation changed. I just have a hard time with the concept that the good horses will race without drugs but the lesser horses will be allowed to use whatever is available to get the job done, making it look like they are too infirm to compete on their own.  
     Thanks for your efforts. 
    I noticed that some of your horses are out of foreign mares that come from generations of horses that have never competed on anything. It is a start.
      Pat

  • Stanley inman

    Good point about the jockey guild keeping silent on raceday meds.
    Their rep Terry meyocks
    has been siding with HBPA,
    who hAs been fighting to use needle.
    Blows my mind,
    Riders allow him to take that position.

  • Lauradeseroux

    I see it coming now. Those who are against the proposed ban on race day medication will use the breakdowns of the three horses in the Dubai Gold Cup as a tendentious argument.

  • RayPaulick

     That would fall under “anecdotal” information. Better would be voluminous data that averages fatalities per 1,000 or 10,000. What happened today was horrible but is not indicative of the average fatality rate for turf racing.

    I don’t believe Lasix or a small amount of Bute is the problem with breakdowns. More likely it’s repeated joint injections that are used as a substitute for time off.

    Barry Irwin’s point is we have to look at the perception of what is going on. But I’m sure nothing will change your mind on the subject.

  • RayPaulick

     It’s already begun, Laura.

  • Joe

     Well said. Unless horse racing decides to pass needed reforms soon, owners like you should create their own drug-free racing league to fully enjoy fair competition and improve the breed with clean, genuine racing records.

  • Barry Irwin

    People that cannot reveal their own identity don’t deserve to be taken seriously, because it indicates that they don’t have the courage to do so. There is no reason to hind behind a lame-ass screen name like yours. I am on the right side of this issue, as are thousands of others. The minority position is peopled by those lack the vision to see the train wreck that awaits our industry if we don’t change our course. Are you lumping yourself in with the psycho posters? I am not shocked.

  • 1/8shortofamile

    “I don’t believe Lasix or a small amount of Bute is the problem with breakdowns. More likely it’s repeated joint injections that are used as a substitute for time off.”—————————————–
    FINALLY, You’re getting there!!!!

    Run every horse on Bute & Lasix and remove Cortisone and breakdowns will drop DRAMATICALLY!

    Suspend every trainer that has a horse test with anything other than a permitted level of Lasix & Bute and the medication problem in this industry are solved.

  • Ridindirty3

    Wait a minute! Sorry for the lame-ass screen name. Anyway….the last time I checked….I was allowed to CHOOSE? what my lame-ass screen name was gonna be? People are also allowed to CHOOSE their own opinions as well? As idiotic as they are? NO? Look…. we get it….YOU are anti-drug….even though most if not all of your limited partnership owned horses run on them. Congrats on the Spiral win…BTW. The vision of the train wreck is a little too little…and a little too late…don’t ya think? I think I’m really pro ENFORCEMENT. What’s REALLY lame-ass is the fact we know what’s going on…..but we’re too weak & dumb to do the right thing!

  • Joe

    I’mwithyou, I am with you and in a perfect world, you and your lucky drug-free horses would enjoy many opportunities to compete against your peers.

  • FourCats

    Yes, my horses are thoroughbred racehorses.  I have to admit that I don’t know what you are referring to as a “track vet”.  My trainer has veterinarians that he uses when the horses are stabled at the track as do the farms that they go to for time off.

  • kyle

    What do you expect?…when you rally behind the awful banner of that Times story? IT, in its mendaciousness, made the link between breakdowns and drugs, both legal and not. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t give it awards while at the same time repudiating the logic of its central premise.
    Listen, I want to end the culture of drugs. It hasn’t helped the game. And Irwin’s right about the perception problem.  But to have not stood up to The Times with the facts and defended racing’s right to exist….Fact is, the Thoroughbred is the quicksilver of the animal kingdom. Phar Lap, Swale, Landaluce, Left Bank….they can die in their stall, cooling out from a work or from a tummy ache. Ruffian, Go For Wand, Barbaro, Eight Belles or Sheik Mohammed’s horse today….no matter how well cared for, no matter what surface, no matter the class, or whether they are on legal medication, illegal drugs, or nothing at all they are always a bad step from oblivion. That’s the truth, uncomfortable as it is, racing should have led with. Let the chips fall where they may. Otherwise it’s just creating a vice for itself. If we can, let’s reduce breakdown rates by half a horse per thousand. Just don’t forget that’s not going to be enough for the fanatics. Rest assured, no matter what is done they’ll be there to exploit the next time a horse goes down on national television. And when you give their ravings the kind of respect they are being given you reap the consequences. And you open yourself to these kind of arguments from those who would maintain the staus quo.

  • Not Shocked

    Why shouldn’t it be used to refute the ridiculous tendentious statements made by Barry Irwin ?  It makes a very clear point that race day medication is not the issue he claims it to be. 

  • kyle

    To be clear. My use of the word “you” is not directed at Ray Paulick but at anyone who has embraced The Times article as a vehicle for change.

  • Pat Turner

    Kyle, after the Eight Belles debacle, the NY Times ran an equally appalling piece about breakdowns in racing. At the time they had a writer whose name escapes me who wrote the piece with Joe Drape. I had contacted both writers and invited them out to the barn to spend as much time as they wanted watching what goes on in our stable in the morning and on any race day.  Mr. Drape responded but never took me up on the offer. The other person was not interested in 
    anything that would dislodge him from his preconceived notions about racing.

    We have crossed into a territory where those who know the least about horses in general and racing in particular believe they have the right to decide our fate. Part of the issue is that every time an animal rights groups or something like the NY Times articles come up – there is no voice of sanity in racing to inform and educate those with untrue ideas about this business. Basically racing officials have cowered in the corner out of fear of losing the public they depend on for business. 
     
    I have been in the business so long I remember the days before bute and lasix. I had the privilege of galloping some great horses, all of whom performed without  medication. Back in those days you were considered a bad horseman if 
    you used drugs to drive a horse past its natural limits. Now
    it is standard procedure. What I am getting at in my usual inept fashion is this: we did a terrible job of being responsible stewards of the breed. After decades of selling our best bloodlines overseas, after decades of breeding a horse to sell well instead of run well, after decades of allowing increasing types and amounts of medication – we are left facing a public who thinks we are all greedy bastards who don’t care about the horses in our care.

    If we are going to control our fate we need to get rid of every organization whose idea of public relations is to cry 
    please don’t hurt me every time something goes wrong. But we also need to make really, really painful changes of our own accord before the Greatest Game Played Outdoors is
    baseball.

  • Bevjohn81

    Great Mr Irwin! Glad you have taken this issue on! Takes courage to lead on this. We are real Team Valor fans and will do what we can to assist in the fight. Particularly liked those comments on public perception.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Aggadancool Danny Gonzalez

    you are on the money . We need to enforce rules we already have plus ad some stiff fines for others and not limited to possible jail time.  

    Everyone here has common sense. What possible purpose would people have snake venom in there barn person training center whatever. 28 years in this biz i can tell you there is no place for it at all on the track. So in this case the trainer in question should have been for all intent purposes jailed. There is one law that is called fixing the outcome of a race. ENFORCE IT. We dont need legislators coming in and making new laws cause the others are already there. BEEN THERE.

    as quoted in the bloodhorse this story still shocks the hell out of me 

    One would think that if anything merited a lifetime ban it would be race-fixing. In 1980, the year Errico received his 10-year sentence and Amy lost his New York license, The Blood-Horse noted editorially that the penalty for race-fixing everywhere was lifetime expulsion, except in Maryland. The Blood-Horse reviewed the 1975 Valentine’s Day race-fixing scandal in Maryland, which resulted in imprisonment for jockeys Luigi Gino, Ben Feliciano, and Jesse Davidson as well as suspensions for other participants, and criticized the eventual reinstatement of the offending parties. In 1980, readmittance following race-fixing was so unusual that Maryland stood out as an oddity.

    Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/hors… 

    A jock holding a horse back  was imprisoned while someone using an illegal drug that could result in the injury of a human life or even death is given a fine  then reinstated. Basically what it boils down to is, Its wrong to hold a horse back  but the possibility of killing someone is ok.

    Theraputic drugs is a whole different ball game. In most cases the vets treat the horses. The possibility for a human mistake is more prevalent but in this case just the trainer is fined, and suspended. Even if the trainer wasnt there at the time the treatment occured. 

    More prevelent is also the possibility of giving the horse more meds on purpose in an effort to hide a potential drug that can be labeled as not neccesary at the time of a race. Mepevacaine is the drug of choice when attempting to commit what is considered serious. It typically last in a system for 1 to 2 days  if your given lasix with a drug like testosterone  the drug can go undetected in a horses system. 

    Its the time to abolish the old rule of the trainer is the absolute insurer of the horse. If an owner calls the vet and has the horse treated. The Vet doesnt have to tell the trainer at all. The trainer not knowing the horse was treated cause he may no have been there runs into the chance of getting suspended and fined.  The vet has no legal responsibility to tell the trainer anything. If the trainer has the horse treated its really the only time the trainer has any knowledge if the horse was treated. 
     
    The third case is the idiot that knows it all .  In once case gave his horse bute paste the night before  Then had the vet administer 10 cc of bute the morning of the race ,after the horse won the race there was a suspension and fine but  this guy feel he was wronged. If the vets are willing to put  anything into the horse before a race it doesnt matter  what rules there are in place  he walks away scott free. 

    Simple fixes 

    Do not allow any medication of any kind on the back side in any form. 
    Have the horses treated by the vets only

    Have the vets held responsible for overages for any medications in the horses 

    Hold diligent to not allowing a horse treated 2 days before a race. 

    If the trainers have a medication in any form that is not prescribed to a particular horse then fine the trainer. If the medication is found in another horse that has no prescription for that the trainer is fined.

    There should be no need for a trainer to have any kind of medications at all on the backside. In any form Injectable  pill or paste. 

    certain topical medications should also be controlled  

    guess what if this were the case you would have no overages  and if they did pop up  you have more control of who did it. 

    we have enforcement already in place for this type of things. the problem especially in kentucky  the good ole boy network is still in place  and they look out for trainers that have there horses or are likely not to impose such a severe fine.

    Punishing a person 2 times for the same things is not allowed by law. Racing Commison need to realize that  they cannot  administer penalties that are against the law.  a commision hearing is the same as a trial in a regular court. all laws must be adhered to. The days of  not liking  a guy so lets railroad him are out of racing is over. Several legal cases have already shown that you cant just push people out.

    Hopefully someone will pay attention and wake up  Make racing Fair for all to participate not just those who you think are bad cause someone said it. 

  • Bobmcc

    Ray,

    Had one bleed in a workout 3weeks ago.  Ran a good third 2 days ago with lasix and no other race day meds.  Im for lasix! 

    I agree public perception is important but people that lose money are always going to cry that the game is rigged no matter what the game.

    I bet the public doesnt know that the testing is tuffer than the olympics or cycling.

    If you can show me an alternative to lasix to stop horses from bleeding Im on board otherwise we should figure out what to do with all the horses that can’t race.

  • wallyhorse

    No surprise Laura.  

    What happened in Dubai was first a freak accident and then a questionable decision to re-race the Gold Cup.  I saw the replay and some of those horses were dead tired at the end of three miles (two in the actual race and another mile in the earlier race that was abandoned) and TWO warm-up periods with a cool-down in between.  We used to have heat racing all the time in Harness Racing (still have some of that, with the Hambletonian actually returning to heat racing in 2013), but that decision in Dubai was questionable to say the least.

    The lasix issue has NOTHING to do with what happened in Dubai.  I would myself phase out Lasix as noted in an earlier post (above or below depending on how you see the posts) where I laid out my five-year plan to phase out Lasix.  We didn’t get into this mess overnight and we won’t get out of it quickly either.

  • free reign

    Excellent post. I love the distance races. Most horses are too sore, or have breathing issues caused from multiple conditions, to get around the whole track. Once the caller started whistling and humming as my horse went 2mi., wire to wire.lol The money TALKS. That is how boycotts counteract such exploitation. BTW I heard of a trainer, who took on a new owner, with the owner’s assistant having some bad rulings regarding treatment and medication, making the owner sign a $150,000 protection policy if that owner’s horses get the trainer a ruling(not sure if only drug related.) That is one smart trainer.

  • free reign

    Matthew, One extremely important factor, the low level trainers, and the whole off-track sector of the industry suffers from, is the highly inflated costs of laying up horses. That makes it hard to make resting horses feasible. It is the microcosm of the sufferings of most Americans, and American land owners exposed to commodity, and thus all effected product and service, inflation. American farmers pay taxes, while intl price inflators, none. By the way, remember how we could work with OPEC? Now they smirk, as international bankers let them piggyback on racketeering.
    The low level horses, owners, and trainers are the canary in the coal mine, some of which resort to dangerous means and avarice, to succeed or just survive. This anti-med movement needs a broad-based outlook on how to support horses after they leave the top, owner and breeder’s barns.

  • wallyhorse

    You are right Barry:

    The first part of my five-year plan (noted elsewhere in an earlier comment here) to phase out Lasix includes ALL races for two year olds along with the Triple Crown, Breeders’ Cup and selected Grade 1 races along with ALL such races preceding the Kentucky Derby for three year olds.

  • Barry Irwin

    Extremely well stated.

  • kyle

    Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Pat. I think the other writer you were trying to think of was Bill Rhoden, a guy who may have been covering his first horse race that Saturday. What they did to Larry Jones I always thought was appalling. And very few in racing raised their voices in defense. I disagree with one thing you wrote…and that’s the why. I’ve never seen racing officials show much of any concern for, let alone fear of, the public they depend on…ie the bettors. If they fear anyone I suppose it’s the politicians. But I always ascribed their timidness to a certain shame and guilt. They haven’t been good stewards of the game, as you point out. I think it renders them incapable of defending the game because in their hearts they feel so exposed and vulnerable….that at least is taking the kindest view.

  • Stanley inman

    The view about perception is so important in our sport.
    For instance:
    Loyalty is viewed as a superior character trait,
    man’s relationship with the horse can and is viewed thru this prism, rightly so.
    When the public sees are actions as disloyal ( throwaway mentality, medicated on raceday)
    They stay away.

  • 2sunroofsue

    Barry, you of all people, as an owner/breeder/businessman are missing the point.  Your focus is on Graded Stakes for 2YO’s.  What about the rest of the crop?  Have you ever had a lovely horse that you gave time to mature, who wasn’t ready at 2 for Graded Stakes competition?   But good enough to maybe break his maiden, run in an a other than?  What about those horses?  If you want to play no meds, level the playing field for the horses.  Or are you suggesting that only the Best of the crop should be protected?

  • 2sunroofsue

    And for all the SHEEP agreeing, no meds on race day because it’s a sport, ask the breeding industry to take the following hit:  breed horses that don’t need medication to perform at their best.  Awful enough, the amount of pre-sale vetwork.  Let’s include the Jockey Club and make All Breeders responsible for the soundness of limb and lung on a sale horse.  If you buy one and it needs medication to race, it’s a no sale… 

  • Min

    Such a needed article … & why can’t it be on the front page of every sports publication out there so the subject doesn’t get ‘postponed’ yet again?  People can argue all they want & even talk horror stories like Not Shocked below, but nothing will ever, ever be proven unless it is ACTUALLY TRIED. 

    Cheers to Barry for his fearless love of this sport!  Now let’s get on with it, clean up, & earn the respect of international racing for awhile.

  • Eugene levey

    “BARRY” IT WAS A PLEASURE MEETING YOU IN THE VIP ROOM A FEW WEEKS AGO ..

    NOT TO MUCH HAS CHANGED SINCE THE 1800′S & I DOUBT IT WILL CHANGE IN OUR TIME  SO TO SPEAK….WE SHALL SEE WHAT WE SHALL SEE

  • Equine Avenger

    Hell, ive been involved in the industry for over 35 years(as an ethical horseman), yet, although I love the horses and racing is my passion, even im considering totally walking away from the sport….im that disgusted with it. So why wouldnt the average racing fan. 
    The things that go on today(relying on vets/needles/drugs) with many trainers to win races compared to how I was taught(proper legwork, spending quality time with the animal, etc) to the modern day grooms(always in a rush, treat horses as inanimate objects, near zero horse knowledge, and lacking the know-how, skills or abilities to teach/coax/create a more intelligent animal, etc) just sickens me.

  • wallyhorse

    Pat:

    My plan would eventually have NO horses racing on Lasix, but that would be phased in so those horses used to running on Lasix are not adversely affected while a new generation, racing without Lasix comes in and eventually fully takes over.

  • Cass

      You are absolutely right it is ludicrous to run only 2 year old races drug free but Barry is also correct,  it will take a long time to change our racing rules but at least 2 year old stakes races are a start.   My further comments are not so much to you as I think I am preaching to the choir but to reply to an earlier comment by someone on breeding.  I believe a can of worms will shortly be opened up on what we are doing in the breeding business and maybe that is what is needed. Then again maybe it is too late and there are no sound lines left.  But drug free racing may help us return to sound breeding although it is certainly a long term project.

       We continue to use prominent stallions without knowing whether we are perpetuating an unsound line, unless trainers are willing to come forth and let us know exactly what any horse is running on on any given day.  Although having said that, in one case we were indeed all informed by the trainer, through the media, that a certain colt was successful on steroids which he apparently did not have in his system in his final race.  Was his poor performance in that race because of lack of steroids?  we don’t know but you certainly have to think about it.  However, breeders obviously were quite happy to use this stallion anyway and now if his first crop 2 year old sales topping son does well at the races, will it also be because of steroids or drugs? again we don’t know, unless the trainer of this colt also cooperates and informs us.  But so much money is involved and short term survival comes to mind that I am sure the stallion is already assured a full book for 2012 without us having the answers yet.  But for those that are bothered by this, we would have a good idea of soundness of limb and wind in a pedigree if all racing were drug free.

      I also have to say that owners also share a responsibility.  They know what their trainers use, most of them anyway but it would take a strong morally minded owner to say to a trainer, I want my horse to compete totally drug free even though he is the only one doing so.   However, if it were a level playing field and each horse was running under the same condition it would be a different story

  • QHorseTrainer

    Barry Irwin is 100% correct in his assesment of racing.  Perception is everything. 

  • Rick Barton

    I have found the opposite to be true regarding the quality of grooms on the backstretch

  • Equine Avenger

    Grooms today do zero “rubbing” or “massaging” of legs. Its a wipe wipe and on goes bandages.

  • Equine Avenger

    This old dude speaks the truth – http://www.paulickreport.com/n

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YIRKK52DZUQLALV6GSHLVHS4DU Minor Prize

    Barry Irwin clearly doesn’t have a clue:

     

    1. What “Barry Irwin wants” is unimportant to everyone else.

    2. “Barry Irwin’s perspective” is insignificant to the big picture.

    3. Indeed the “public’s perception” is racing’s greatest black-eye, however this is not for reasons relating to drugs in race horses, as “Barry Irwin” and the NY Times might have you believe. Instead, the public shuns horse racing because the track regulars like Barry Irwin are seen as having the “unlevel playing field” tipped in their favor.

    Clearly any and all races horses running in the U.S. could be drugged, and that maintains an ‘equal’ playing field in that regard. This much like anybody on the subway could have a gun. Your not knowing which subway riders are carrying a gun is what keeps you on your best behavior. Drugs in horse racing are not keeping “the public” away from the sport. More accurately, it is people like Barry Irwin who inspire could-be racegoers to opt for other entertainment for their perceiving Barry Irwin himself to have the advantage on the “Playing/(betting) field that is not level”.

    I paraphrase Barry Irwin when I write: “If we say to the patient that there will be less chance of his/her feeling extreme pain by administering him/her a painkiller, then what we are really saying is that too many humans feel pain on a regular basis and that… we are being cruel to humans (in affording them that painkiller medication)”. Then Barry Irwin himself goes on to say that the position opposite to this one is “indefensible”.

    Barry Irwin then says: “Human beings have a less efficient respiratory and circulatory system than a racehorse, yet somehow (humans) are able to participate in track and field while running medication free.” Humans, unlike horses, can breathe through their mouths, too, Mr. Irwin!!

    Barry Irwin adds: “IF 100 percent of our racehorses require Lasix in order for racing to be conducted, I suggest to you that we don’t have a viable sport and this is exactly the way the public sees it. In the public eye, racing has cooties because we drug our horses”. This is the mark of an insane man! Everybody knows that “100 percent of our racehorses” do not “require Lasix in order for racing to be conducted”. There is no such “require”-ment in racing, so why waste all of your hot air??

    North American racing “has cooties” not because of drugs in horses (that has been the case for many decades), but because of people just like Barry Irwin. The public shuns racing for reasons having nothing to do with the animals themselves (why even Barry could figure out that “The public likes animals and the public especially likes horses.”), but for reasons directly to do with Barry Irwin and others of his ilk. Barry, as a race track regular, you are the problem. For you are the insider who is deemed to have the edge “on a playing field that is not level”. It doesn’t even matter whether you have such an edge in this case, for this is all about public perception.

    Barry Irwin then states: “The owners cannot lose, because they are on the right side…”. Earth to Barry Irwin: that is why the public as a whole shuns horse racing in North America – because you and others of your ilk are perceived to have an unbeatable position when compared to that of the guy who may or may not walk into a race track for the first time next weekend. Again, you are the problem!!

    As for the tail wagging the dog… you, as the owner, who “cannot lose” because you “are on the right side”… are that tail! You can not be part of the solution until you cease to be the problem. People don’t need to “own” (or worse yet, “breed”) race horses anymore than we need to drug animals. Nobody “owns” or “breeds” the ping-pong balls which are far more successful these days in the market for the wagering dollar than is the sport that persons like yourself, Barry Irwin, are killing off.

    These many others who are insanely siding with you, instead of singling you out, are in the same ‘target audience’ who need to be reminded, if not slapped with the reality that the public (wait, what did Barry Irwin just write: ??) “The public does not like to bet… on a playing field that is not level”. (Earth to Barry Irwin: The playing field IS level in the local lottery)

    Their siding with you is akin to allowing only those who are, for example, on the payroll of a certain company to vote in the general election. Of course they’re all going to vote for what they perceive to be the company’s best interest, after having been rendered by their own personal best interest to be unable to understand what is best for everybody. Horse racing is spiraling downward because of you, collectively, and not because of “drugs”!!

    You people ARE and continue to be “the problem”, and until you can drum it through your collective skulls that, as Barry Irwin so eloquently stated: “public perception is important” … then you will never see fit to step out of your own way so as to allow horse racing to revitalize itself.

  • jorge

    How quick will Barry put his new purchase on lasix when he runs here?

  • http://twitter.com/Perf_Genetics Performance Genetics

    It is a circular agreement between owners and breeders. For owners to breed sound horses of wind and limb, they need to be better informed about what occurs on the racetrack in terms of surgeries, prevalence of bleeding, etc, when they are presented with fillies coming off the track in the sale ring. Owners who are selling horses don’t have to disclose if the race filly needed 0,2,5 or 10cc’s of whatever drug treatment she needed, aren’t told if she had a myectomy (there is no obligation to disclose this if you sell as a breeding prospect) or chips taken out of a knee. Unsoundness has a heritable component. If breeders are charged with breeding sounder horses, they need more information from the racetrack to make informed decisions about their purchasing and mating decisions.

  • Rick Barton

    EA- I guess you and I have not visited the same shedrows..

  • Barry Irwin

    Attention readers: you see the little icon to the left? If you click on it you can see earlier posts made by individuals. This guy is making his first post on the Paulick Report under this phony screen name.

    This is part of an effort to discredit me in hopes that the important message I delivered in my piece is not taken seriously.

    How can anybody take anybody seriously that behaves in this manner?

  • McGov

    This guy is an idiot and doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.  Somehow, you are responsible for racing problems….really????
    Don’t let the ignorant and simpletons deter you Mr. Irwin…for every one of them, there are 10 that agree with you.

  • Stanley inman

    Minor prize;
    Thank you for your astute observation about insider bias
    And how it damages our sport.

    Using an alias can be cool
    But Attacking the messenger and remaining anonymous
    Seems like A perfect example of what you are warning us of-
    (Bias favoring racing “insiders”
    who resist Accepting consequences of their
    Behavior)

  • QHorseTrainer

    I agree with Barry and anyone who believes the lottery, in which you have about a 1 in 173,000,000 chance of winning is a level playing field must be smoking some good stuff.  Changes need to be made.  Trainers need to be good horsemen and more hands on.  The solution is not just elimination of race day medication, it is part of bigger changes that need to be made.  Eliminating race day medication is a start but only a start.

  • McGov

    The customer and the perception of a product to the customer is very important. But it is also important that all stake holders…ie. horse owners, trainers, employees have a collective input in the way that the product is controlled.  
    As for insider knowledge, all sports / companies have inappropriate insider networks that share info with a limited crowd.  Part of the art of handicapping is to evaluate movements of money …the same goes for the stock market.
    It’s a silly argument, and not one based in reality…but based in the mind of the gambling loser.

  • Equine Avenger

    Rick, do you really think they are going to cheat the horse when you or the boss is standing around watching them? Work amongst them and you will be enlightened.

  • Weez

    What planet are you from, sir?

  • Joe

    Because equine management is as important as breeding and conformation, equine health records including cosmetic surgeries and chemical records should be kept from birth and publicly disclosed. In addition, the injury and fatality records of individual owners, trainers, vets and jockeys should be meticulously recorded and disclosed.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YIRKK52DZUQLALV6GSHLVHS4DU Minor Prize

    As someone stated below:   Horse racing “is failing at the box office”. This has exactly nothing to do with drugs on race day, drugs on Barry Irwin’s birthday, or drugs on any other day. The general public you are attempting to lure to said “box office” does not give horse racing the time of day often enough to even reach a concern about drugs.
     
    Furthermore, were you going to somehow solve the issue of “race day medication” you would have done so many decades ago. As for Barry Irwin, well, doesn’t it feel strange when a man who routinely drugs his horses on race day admonishes others for doing same? Were Barry Irwin the champion he sees himself as being, he would set a fine example and cease immediately the drugging of his own runners on race day. Until that happens, the proverbial pot is merely talking to the kettle.

    Only the foolish would dispute that North American horse racing is being effectively held together by the threadbare strands of the “Interstate Wire Act of 1978″. Were it not for that legislation, North American horse race tracks would long ago have become provincialized (again). Most tracks would by now have ceased operation as the result of low revenue and a decimated local breeding industry behind them.

    It has been North American racing’s own lack of foresight, and in no way “race day medication” which brought racing to its knees in recent years.

    From the standpoint of the general, and overwhelmingly disinterested public, it remains true that said public are intimidated from taking-up horse racing as a hobby not by race day medication, but by the whole insiders’ network which is inherent to horse racing as most know of it.

    Nobody goes to Wrigley Field for the first time with a pre-conceived perception of mere “bleacher bums” knowing an inherent advantage over fans who are sitting in the best box seats available at the walk-up ticket window. Furthermore, while the guy who stays home and watches the game on cable does indeed know a better view in most cases, and greater overall understanding of key situations in the game, the fan at Wrigley for the first time is not in direct competition with those at home!!!

    When your whole business model encourages your best customers to stay home (and away from the live venue) while simultaneously making everybody else aware that those showing up at your place of business are at a distinct disadvantage, then you are simply doing it wrong!
    that those showing up at your place of business are at a distinct disadvantage, then you are simply doing it wrong!

    Consider the humor in Barry Irwin’s position where on one hand he won’t even acknowledge his would-be insider advantage over all who have ever shunned a day at the races in favor of tiddly winks. On the other hand, Barry Irwin himself isn’t man enough to cease immediately the race-day drugging he so eschews, for the very reason of his not wanting others to know a could-be advantage over him!!

    It is precisely the Barry Irwin characters all around horse racing who are the very reasons why the general public wants nothing to do with a game where they don’t feel they rate a level chance. As stated previously, everybody has the same chance in the state lottery, and all but the brain-dead are well aware of same.

    Interesting that the QHorseTrainer below mentions odds of just 1-in-173 million when his own sport the other day served up a bet fully 8.8 Billion times more difficult than was the big lottery drawing on the same night. So great were the odds, in fact, that most of the computers in the racing game could not handle the incomprehensible number of combinations.

    The difference, of course, is that the novices at racing’s “box office” would see and understand themselves to have the same chance in the lottery as does Barry Irwin in the bleachers. As such, those novices were perfectly willing to play the lottery: 

    Final score:

    Mega Millions sales:                                                  $400+ million

    QHorseTrainer’s sport’s pie-in-the-sky wager sales:     $6223

    You people need simply drum it through your nonabsorbent skulls that the very way that you yourselves have been presenting, and allowing others to present North American horse racing, has evolved to become racing’s very undoing. This Irwin-esque and pointless deflection of attention onto insignificant tangents is quite sinister when viewed in the context of the big picture.

    For the first time in your collective lives, it is time for you to actually do something for the new customers who might then, slowly, begin to trickle back to what remains of North American race tracks. It wasn’t so long ago that an entire province in Canada saw all of its tracks shut down abruptly, and so far permanently because of the financial malaise they created.
      Who says your state won’t be next? And how much time do you really think you have?

    In closing, let me share once again a line from the great Barry Irwin himself, who states: “the only thing that matters is what the public thinks of our sport.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/savestallions1 Mary Adkins-Matthews

    Barry can you please explain why it is that you speak out against Lasix yet you run your horses with it according to what is said on this forum http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?p=878152

  • http://www.facebook.com/savestallions1 Mary Adkins-Matthews

    Barry is wrong!!! MANY MANY trainers in other countries that have a ban on race day medication still TRAIN on them.. go figure… it would be abusive to run a horse that bleeds without them if the horse bleeds. Of course the popular opinion here is to not run a horse that bleeds at all which is the most hilarious argument I have ever heard when we have an industry that already ships young healthy horses to slaughter DAILY because they are simply not fast enough. People need to wake up and smell the coffee and realize that if a horse had a decision to run on Lasix or be shipped off to slaughter, he would choose the Lasix every day of the week. Until something else is found, a ban on Lasix would HURT horses in general .. that is the TRUTH even if it is not what people want to hear. Unless we want to double the amount of horses going to slaughter every year in this industry. we had better hope there is NO BAN on Lasix unless something better is found

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