The Breeders’ Cup Forum: Churchill Downs President Kevin Flanery

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Churchill Downs caught many of us by surprise last week with the announcement that it was changing Kentucky Derby eligibility requirements, effective with the 2013 Derby, from money won in graded stakes throughout the world to a point system incorporating 36 specific races that comprise the Road to the Kentucky Derby.

The Road to the Kentucky Derby has four segments: a Prep Season that includes 19 races of a mile or more during a horse’s 2-year-old season and early in its 3-year-old campaign (10 points for a win, points for top four); eight races in the first leg of the Kentucky Derby Championship Series (50 points for a win, points for top four); seven races in the second leg of the Kentucky Derby Championship Series (100 points for a win, points for top four); and two wild card races (20 points for a win, points for top four).

Kevin Flanery, president of Churchill Downs racetrack, talked with the Paulick Report about the process of developing the Road to the Kentucky Derby and what he hopes will be gained with this new qualifying system.

When did this process begin and what was the reason to explore the idea of changing Kentucky Derby qualifying?

As we always have said, every year right after the Kentucky Derby we talk about how the Derby season went, how the process of eligibility worked for those in the race and those who didn’t make the race. The key issue last year, for example, was changing the rule to add an also-eligible list to the Derby.

Around August we started to earnestly look to see if there was an alternative qualifying system that made sense. We asked ourselves, when you look at purses with the addition of casino money, when you look at the types of races making horses eligible, was there a better way to do it – both with a short-term and long-term view – to utilize the Derby to increase awareness of racing in general and bring new fans to the sport. It’s an ongoing conservation we have.

Who participated from your management team at Churchill?

I was very involved. Darren Rogers, John Asher (from Churchill Downs media relations), and Casey Ramage (marketing) also were very involved, as was the racing office with Ben Huffman and his group. That was the core team. But we had voices from all over the track and company feeding information and ideas.

Were outside consultants involved, or did NBC Sports or a media company like USA Today play a role?

Yes, after we came to a conclusion that we were going to change, we did reach out to different entities. For example we talked to NASCAR about their point system and some of the things they learned. We talked to people in golf, from the Fed Ex cup to the Ryder Cup. We talked to our media partners as well to get their initial impressions of our system. The one thing we learned from other sporting entities was try and make it as simple and digestible as possible to give the fans something to rally around.

Is there a formal partnership with USA Today Sports Media Group on this? You mentioned in the press conference USA Today will be publishing Road to the Kentucky Derby standings before and after weekend races.

We’re excited what USA Today is doing. They are combining and growing the online platform as well as the hard copy version of their publication, and they have some interesting growth opportunities for racing in the area of fantasy games. We approached them about how to make it all go together, across all their distribution channels. We still have some things to work out.

Was there a belief by the committee that early-season races for 2-year-olds going a short distance of ground had too much influence in the Graded stakes earnings list?
One of the things we did was look at what horsemen were saying about the Derby and the path to the Derby in previous years. Two things that resonated from the beginning were the issue of 2-year-old races early in the season and at distances that didn’t reflect a horse’s ability to go a mile and a quarter in the Kentucky Derby. The third thing, a lot of people talked about horses getting eligible too early, and not having to prove themselves as the big day approached. That definitely was something we looked at with fans and horsemen in mind.

Did you start out with other assumptions?

We did have a mantra, and that was: If we are going to change, we have to create a compelling story that engages new fans to the sport. That was the core.  1A to that core was to respect the tradition and integrity of the race. We wanted to make sure we looked at traditional paths to the Derby, so we end up with the best horses possible in the field. That was really the mantra from the beginning.

Do see why some people say giving only 10 points to the Breeders’ Cup Juvenile winner is a slap in the face to the Breeders’ Cup?

When we looked at the system we tried to say: What does the path look like as we approach the Derby. Again we are trying to do something that builds the excitement so that the best horses in the best shape are there on Derby Day. That entailed some tough decisions. We looked at 185 races. The Breeders’ Cup Juvenile is a fantastic race and Breeders’ Cup is a fantastic partner for Churchill Downs. It’s the championship race for 2-year-olds. Our system is designed to make sure we have the best 3-year-olds on the first Saturday in May

Do you have concerns that not including the Illinois Derby at Hawthorne looks to some people like it has more to do with a feud between Arlington (a Churchill Downs Inc. racetrack) and Hawthorne than with its legitimacy as a major prep race?

Our system all along, if you look at where we landed, was based on trying to tell a compelling story. There is a logical sequence of races on the road to the Kentucky Derby and we want to build momentum around races that get closer to the actual event.  You have to make some tough choices along the way. We respect the past but we are creating a new path. We recognize we had to have geographic diversity. There is a limited number of races, and we needed to spread those races around the country. Many didn’t make cut because they were in the wrong position on the calendar, went up against other super races, were too short of a distance, or other factors. It really was about the future path on that aspect.

Some people, including three-time Kentucky Derby-winning trainer Bob Baffert, said: This is okay, but if you really want to make it better, reduce the number of starters from 20. Will that ever happen?

We focused very much on the road to the Kentucky Derby. I’m very pleased with how it has shaped up. If you look at the last 30-40 years, we’ve had 12 Kentucky Derby and Preakness winners, and I believe on two other occasions we’ve had a Derby-Belmont winner. The Derby has proven that it’s a tough test, but the best horse at that time wins the Derby.

Were trainers consulted?

There were some off-the-record conversations about the process, but not the particulars. We wanted to make sure that we get the fans engaged and we had the proper momentum when it was announced. Trainer opinions matter: Darren Rogers, John Asher, and others looked at what had been suggested by the industry and those suggestions were taken into consideration.

We think we have the right plan for now but it also has flexibility built into it. I could see this being a 40-race series, so we have four spots where people could come in with innovative ideas.

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  • Highgunner

    “look at what horsemen were saying about the Derby and the path…Two things that resonated from the beginning were the issue of
    2-year-old races early in the season and at distances that didn’t
    reflect a horse’s ability to go a mile and a quarter in the Kentucky
    Derby.”

    Kudos to those applying some horsemanship common sense to the process.

    @Highguner

  • Triplecrownquest

    CDI’s credibility is ZERO. Regardless of anything this guy says.

  • Scott Goddard

    Top of the CDI’s Priority List

    Utilize input from media companies to craft a strategy that
    will increase public interest.

     

    Bottom of Priority List

    Trainers’ opinions.

     

    As it should be.

  • http://Bellwether4u.com James Staples

    they re only n it for the money…in the past like others they turned thier back$ on “THE HORSE”…Paulick Report & HORSE LOVERS/SOCIAL MEDIA have EXPOSED them for what they & others n “THE GAME” REALLY ARE…they ain’t seen nothing yet BABY!!!…stand by folks…ty…

  • http://Bellwether4u.com James Staples

    Oh! so ture…ty…

  • Cliff

    Curious why no follow up to the third-last question: “what races other than the Illinois Derby did you slight?”

  • Hoofbeats

    I think they excluded to many races, otherwise a great idea.

  • The Cubs are in last place Ray

    So, basically Trinniberg’s entry in the Derby killed the Hopeful’s status because they don’t want sprinter types in the Derby.   Churchill fails.  I will not be playing any CDI tracks in the future, including boycotting the Derby.

  • RayPaulick

    Would love to hear some elaboration on that. 

  • ManuelB

    Ray,

    I don’t know whether this interview was edited, but it seems to me more of PR exercise for Kenney than a real interview. You should have asked harder questions. He totally avoided answering the question regarding the Illinois Derby. You should have put him on the spot and forced him to speak specifically about the Illinois Derby, not get away with a generic answer. You know your readers are interested in this specific stakes race. As someone else has already said, why didn’t you ask about other races that were excluded. Similarly, you should have asked him about races that shouldn’t have been included. It’s too bad that journalists have now become PR agents.

  • RayPaulick

    I believe the last Hopeful winner to win the Kentucky Derby was Affirmed. There have been some very good horses in the interim to win the Hopeful, including Preakness-Belmont winner Afleet Alex, but it has not proven to be that strong of a race for Classic winners in the last 30 years.

  • RayPaulick

    Thanks for your input. I asked Kevin Flanery questions on subjects I had heard the most about in response to the Road to the Kentucky Derby: BC Juvenile, Illinois Derby, field size. I also wanted to have a better understanding of the process and purpose. The interview was not edited and there were no “ground rules.”

  • ryan driscoll

    Other than wee-weeing on the Illinois Derby, I think it looks pretty good.

  • Jncranch

    The point system is a great idea for the fans and marketing.  The answer to field size was lacking.  In a field of 20, the best horse doesn’t always win.  Why not reduce field size to 14?

  • Bob Hope

    properly done, no alterations to graded breeders races should take place without consultation with the graded stakes committee and/or a loss of graded status

    these standards should be firmly established and adhered to internationally, otherwise
    they risk becoming a crap game

  • Indulto

    If Mr. Flanery is reading these comments, I hope that if Mr. Paulick has no objection, he will also read my commentary at
     
    http://www.horseraceinsider.co
     
    In it, I proposed adding a fifth “segment” with races approximately seven weeks prior to the Kentucky Derby that would include the Spiral Stakes, Sunland Derby. UAE Derby, and a re-positioned Illinois Derby. It would have a higher point distribution than the second segment, but below the most valuable segment from six to three weeks prior to the main event.

  • Rachel

    I have little respect for a system that equates a 4th place finish on synthetic as the same value as winning the Breeders Cup Juvenile and/or Champagne Stakes.

    I have little respect for a system that cherry-picks 20% of all graded stakes races as qualifiers for the most coveted 3 year-old race in the world.

    I could have handled a Graded stakes tier system.

  • Lex

    The Derby is the Derby & people are gonna want to try to win it……IF they can get in it?… no matter what. But I really think KY is gonna shoot themselves in the foot. Horsemen are mobile, and don’t really like changes that don’t put money in their pocket! If these new med. rules & qualifying systems actually happen…..and go the wrong way…. it will be interesting to see who’s around to be interviewed then?

  • Rachel

    History refutes that…go look at great 2 year-olds and Derby winners, Triple Crown winners.

  • Rachel

    80% of all currently eligible graded stakes, from what I understand.

  • Rachel

    Even 18 would work…

  • Barbara

    My immediate take away is the number of non answers to very specific questions. I’ll say this for CDI. No press member has to choose to be even handed, or pander to them, or slight them to create a compelling narrative of disconnected arrogance. That comes through loud and clear either way when CDI speaks pablum. Yum.

    Now for sheer entertainment value, I want to see Frank partner with his buds at the BC and create the inaugural 2013 Stronach Breeders’ Cup Derby Classic, to be run on the last Saturday in April for a 5 million dollar purse.

  • Triplecrownquest

     What they did to the Illinois Derby is all anyone needs to know. That kind of childish garbage is unacceptable. That is ALL the elaboration necessary sir.

  • kyle

    Churchill completely screwed this up. They could have really created something good here, but I’m afraid pettiness got in the way. The fixes are pretty easy, though. Start by making The Illinois Derby a wild card race. Increase the points for the Champagne, Breeders Futurity, The Grey Cup and Hollywood Futurity at least two-fold. (the greatest danger of this system is that it leaves out an accomplished two year old who encounters difficulty of one form or another early in his three year old season. think Sea Hero and Mind That Bird). Declare the BC Juvenile, the five Grade I’s at 9 furlongs, the Louisiana Derby and the UAE Derby “Win and Your INs” with those winners, in descending order of total points, getting first pick of post position. Connections would get to choose a post at any time during the draw – either passing or choosing in order. The others would pick their posts based on a random draw, as they did for those years earlier in the century. That’s a much better system and it took me five minutes, not a year to come up with.

  • kyle

    Actually, think Mine That Bird.

  • David

    Yes, 18 would be fine; that way the first two gates could be sealed with posts 1 and 2 no longer having to take a right turn out of the gate.  There is no compelling reason for a 14-horse field other than to bring it in line with convention; its safety record and incidence for horses being compromised is no less than any major race.  Moreover, the Derby is unique and the panoramic-like, top-of-the-stretch starting scene is a big part of it.

  • http://Bellwether4u.com James Staples

    we think it looks like more of the same old BS…look @ the shape “THE GAME” is in…GMAFB…

  • Barbara

    I think any trainer who has won the Derby more than twice should get an exemption from the one hole as long as their horse is in the Top Fifteen in Convoluted Points. 

  • http://Bellwether4u.com James Staples

    @ this point in time IT is a CRAP GAME!!!…& IT has been to DAMN LONG…

  • Don Reed

    The Post-Belmont Stakes Baloney (Yum!
    Baloney!) Report

     

    We’re in that annual lull, in
    between the Belmont Stakes & the opening of
    the Saratoga
    Meet.  The $37 triples at River Downs
    just aren’t cutting it, entertainment-wise. 
    Let’s see how some of the non-jockeys are passing the time. 

     

    Ah. 
    Mr. Kevin Flanery has stepped up to the plate.  Not unexpectedly – as with any Churchill Downs’ executive’s attempt to articulate his thoughts -
    things got complicated.  Quickly.

     

    — For starters: “As we always
    have said…” – As if what they have had to say in the past is a relevant
    response to the question, which specifically referred to a decision made just
    recently. 

     

    It isn’t.  But when you stuff your opening rhetoric with
    irrelevant filler, it sounds authoritative, doesn’t it?

     

    — “Always.”  That goes back a long, long time, doesn’t it,
    Kev? 

     

    How far back?  1920? 
    1880?  Perhaps in the 2nd year of
    the existence of the Derby, Churchill executives
    were already huddled in frantic conference, tinkering with the conditions by
    which horses qualified for the Derby.

     

    This was well over a hundred years
    ago.  You’d think that by now, they would
    have solved the problem. 

     

    Maybe the more sensible approach
    would have been, after hiring these guys, to give them Lego sets. 

     

    Then – after they grasped the logic
    & methods of miniature physical construction – we could promote them to the
    level of intellectual problem solving that any competent racing secretary has
    mastered by the age of twenty-five.

     

    — “We talk about…” -
    Make certain you also stuff plenty of brain-dead ESPN clichés in there, as
    well. 

     

    Hell, Iger just sold some or all of
    his personal Disney stock holdings & got a check for $84 MILLION DOLLARS. 

     

    Next interview, better say it four
    times in one sentence (there may be an impending 6-for-1 stock split).

     

    — “Around August we started to earnestly…”  

     

    The rest of the year, we just sort
    of slink around, aimlessly.

     

    — “It’s an ongoing
    conservation we have.”  Probably a
    transcribing error. 

     

    For his sake, I hope so, because
    only a passed-along high school graduate would not know the difference between
    “conservation” & – in this context, the only word that would make
    sense is – “concern.”

     

    (To this day, I feel cheated that I
    didn’t hear Tom Durkin calling the name of “Conservation” during the
    run of the 1994 Travers.  Maybe Kev also
    feels the same way, & that the above is a Freudian slip – in which case,
    all is forgiven.)

     

    — “After we came to a
    conclusion that we were going to change, we did reach out to different
    entities. For example we talked to NASCAR about their point system…”

     

    How did the Tree Frog Drugs work on
    their drivers?  They were kind enough to
    give us their professional advice.  I
    assume that we repaid the favor by volunteering our knowledge about TFDs.  If it also works on the fuel & the tires,
    eliminate the pit stops & save millions of dollars!

     

    — “We’re excited what USA Today is
    doing…”  Brilliant!!!

     

    Not only did Kev work in the Number
    1 American Idiot Media Cliché, but he did so in the context of the newspaper USA Today. 

     

    Absolutely NO ONE in the past twenty
    years has ever looked at this miserable, soggy excuse for a newspaper (found on
    the doorsteps of hotel rooms, they’re often mistaken for the Do Not Disturb signs
    that fell off the door handles) & exhibited EXCITEMENT. 

     

    Kev’s the first!

     

    On that high note, we wrap up the 2012
    Mid-Racing Season Baloney Report.  See
    you in 2013, when the Churchill execs – prior to the month of August – once
    again, presumably, will be wandering around aimlessly.

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