DICKINSON RESPONDS TO PAULICK READERS

by Paulick Report Staff | 11.17.2010 | 12:47am

Before heading to Sydney, Australia, for the Asian Racing Conference, the always entertaining Michael Dickinson took time to respond to the many comments to his interview in last week’s Paulick Report Forum brought to you by Breeders’ Cup. Below is his lengthy and thoughtful response.

A big thank you to everyone for their comments. It is always interesting to hear other people’s opinions.

# 5- Barry, we acknowledge that some of the synthetic surfaces in the USA are not perfect but the jockeys and trainers have nothing but priase for the Tapeta at Meydan. There are many trainers who are in Dubai year round and have been training on Tapeta for over 12 months and they love the surface.

# 8- Rachel asks about inhaling the “Goop” and the contamination of air and ground. This is a very good question except for the fact that it has been asked 100 times before and I have replied 100 times before. Tapeta Farm is on the edge of the Chesapeake Bay, the most heavily regulated piece of water in the world. When before, during and over the last 10 years, we have had to past every environmental test known to man, likewise at GGF, which is right on the San Francisco Bay. Robert Hartman, the General Manager at GGF, has just received an Environmental Award. 

When I was training at Tapeta for 10 years, we did a lot of scoping at the barn and never once did we see any “goop” in a horse’s throat. No vet has ever reported to me at any of our tracks, that they have found any Tapeta material in the horse’s throats or eyes. However, all vets have seen dirt down a horse’s trachea on many occasions. If that is not bad enough, its get worse because the kickback from dirt has caused a lot of damage to many horses’ eyes. In addition, Government an approved human Environment Engineer conducted tests with air samplers on a horse’s bridle and the rider’s stirrups and the result was: the Tapeta was below the level of detection, while dirt tracks are high in particle matter. This is all on our website if you had done your homework first. I am surprised about your lack of knowledge but at least you have given me the opportunity to give 2 more reasons why Tapeta is better than dirt.

# 11- Polo says, “Ambient temperature makes speed on the track and the horse’s system is more efficient in hot weather” I have never seen a scientific paper to justify those claims. It is well known the horse has a wide temperature range for top performance.

# 14- I Davis- There is no plastic in Tapeta and you are also talking rubbish about “gunk” Have you physically seen the Tapeta at Meydan? Have you spoken to any trainers who have trained on it for the last 12 months?

# 15 Funny Cide Over- Printed out the vets list.

Timely Jazz was euthanized but the trainer did not blame the track, he had conformation problems which predisposed him to injury and in fact he loved training on the Tapeta track.

Invula- passed fit to race

Jalil- passed fit to race

Nil Blanc- passed fit

Tawaasol- full recovery expected

This is the pot calling the kettle black. Now go and look at the vet’s list of 2 of America’s most famous dirt tracks and you will see it is over 100 horses. Funny Cide Over- you are hiding behind your pen name. What is your real name and what are your achievements in life? Judging by your blogs, you are obviously a world expert, well at least in your own mind!!!

# 19- River City Smitty- The handle 2010 DWC was up 23%.

# 25 FunnyCideOver- I am quoting Bill Oppenheim in the TDN-

“DWC has a huge international cast, with 100 runners bred and or trained in 17 different countries, in 7 races running for $26 million. How elements of American racing can carry on with the reactionary, isolationist, assumption that the rest of the world doesn’t really matter is frankly beyond me. This event is a mega-accomplishment.”

# 29- FunnyCideOver- There are 20 trainers who have trained and raced on Tapeta for the last 12 months in Dubai and 20 trainers loved the surface. Game,set and match.

# 32 Malcer- We all love the fabulous dirt horses of the past. The modern trainers don’t like using all this medication because they get into trouble from the owners for producing big vet bills. The modern American racehorse is not the same as he was 30 years ago. He is 3rd generation medication. When I trained, I used legal therapeutic medication, only because you have to do to compete in the USA. If the modern American dirt horse is so good, he should be in Dubai where there is fantastic prize money, his expenses are paid and dirt horses perform well on Tapeta.

# 35- RatherRapid- you are quite correct. Hard tracks cause more bleeders, but the UK races are not 4 seconds slower than the USA. The clocks start from a standing start and many of the courses have an uphill finish.

# 37 Bill O’Gorman- A brilliant trainer, very articulate and is always worth reading.

I have really enjoyed this project and I would like to thank all those who support Tapeta.

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Horses

Good man Michael.
ta-pete-a

Michael,

How would traditional dirt tracks perform if they received the same TLC synthetic tracks are offered? TLC includes $$$.
equus

Lest anyone forget, Michale Dickinson comes from a long line of racing history. His father, Michael, and his mother Monica were very successful trainers in the UK. Michale himself was a very able steeplechase jockey and in later years has the leading trainer in the UK. His greatest accomplishment was to train the first five finishers in the Cheltenham Gold Cup, the pinnacle of steeplechase racing. I have raced and trained on the Tapeta surface, and in my 40 years of experience, it is a far superior surface to dirt even at premier tracks such as Belmont, Churchill Downs. I for one am glad that Michael took the time to answer his Paulick report critics however ignorant and misinformed they may be
Anita Knapp

So why didn’t he participate in the argument when the article was originally posted so the Tapeta detractors could come back at him with their own version of facts?
equus

Dear, dear Anita, there is no version of fact – opinion is certainly not fact. I believe he answered even the most stupid challenges professionally and with factual based argument.
http://thedresdenfile.blogspot.com/ malcer

I’m surprised you responded to my comment #32 in such detail, especially since I didn’t raise any of the questions you respond to. I still agree with your response.
equus

Also Anita, perhaps he does not have the time to sit aimlessly in front of a computer answering ridiculous statements. Perhaps he has a life?
Anita Knapp

Oh I see equus, but he has the time to respond when nobody can argue back at him. As a lawyer I always find such behavior highly suspect, especially when the person behaving that way is trying to sell an expensive product. And he’s presenting his opinions as fact BTW. So I call it his version of fact.
equus

Feel free to sue him my dear after all that’s the American way! His facts are based upon years of product trial and research – your fact is based upon what??????? Please tell.
Aunt Bea

Hey equus, what kind of endorsement deal are you getting from Tapeta?
Ray Paulick

Anita…. Michael Dickinson did the Q&A for the Paulick Report Forum shortly after returning home following three months overseas, and he had less than a week before leaving to partcicipate at the Asian Racing Conference in Australia. While I’d like to think he has time to check out the Paulick Report throughout the day, I’m afraid he probably had a few other things to tend to during his brief time in the U.S.

Besides, doesn’t this platform give you a chance to respond and “argue back at him”? I’m sure he’ll have Internet access when he arrives in Sydney and would hope the first thing he’ll check out is our website.
equus

Aunt Bea – The very best endorsement deal. A safe, proven surface upon which to train and race my horses.
ta-pete-a

Re: #32 “therapeutic medication”

Michael,

Was DA HOSS on “therapeutic medication” when he won the BC Mile? I recall the Hong Kong Jockey Club sent him packin’ when he failed the steroid ban in that country.

Regards
Aunt Bea

uh-huh, thats what I thought.
Aunt Bea

Btw equus, women in America don’t normally call each other “my dear”. It kinda has a condescending, Limey sound to it.
J mack

He sure is an arrogant S.O.B,isn’t he? Remember everyone,he is SELLING A PRODUCT,his product,so naturally he is going to say his surface is going to be like the second coming of Christ for horses.If he doesn’t sell it to more tracks,he makes no money.As long as he is selling it,he will say it is superior to dirt.I like the part where he admitted he had to use medications because “You have to to compete in the U.S.” That’s funny!So much for being a super trainer.
Priscilla Peabody

You will never convince the pro-dirt side. When faced with hard science and facts, they claim you just manipulated it all, without giving any evidence of their own as to why dirt is better or safer.

How, exactly, is dirt better or safer? Do you have statistics and science to back it up? Anyone?
Margrethe

Dr. Rick Arthur presented all the hard facts and science used by various managements, writers, and all defenders of synthetics.
equus

BTW Aunt Bea, I am a man in America. Does that make it OK. My Aunt Bea is 92 and I always call her “My Dear”

Lets not digress from the main point of this topic. Dirt is the most unnatural surface for horses. They are born on turf. Try walking on a wet beach and then try walking on a deep sandy beach. Dirt cannot be kept consistent. It breaks horses down, requires them to be overly medicated. I do not like the “pro-ride surface, I do not like the “Cushion Track”, but Tapeta has consistently provided a safe surface on which to train horses.and race horses. Tapeta has been around now for over 10 years. Is it the answer to all? of course not, but other than turf itself, for me it is the best artificial surface.
Priscilla Peabody

Fatalities have dropped on these tracks after switching from dirt to synthetic as follows:
Hollywood Park 2.87 – 0.97
Del Mar 2.47 – 0.81
Santa Anita 2.81 – 1.71
Golden Gate 3.90 – 2.50
Arlington 3.43 – 1.70
Keeneland Fall 1.75 – 0
Keeneland 2.50 – 1.55
Turfway Park Fall 3.22 – 0.34
TP Holiday 1.80 – 1.52
TP Spring 2.90 – 0.99
Aunt Bea

Priscilla, we have seen alot of encouraging evidence presented, but all from the pro-synthetics view, comparing the safety of synthetic surfaces to pre-2006 dirt stats.
I’m gonna maintain that when all the stats come out, that you will see decreases across the map of US racing of injury since 2006, dirt or synthetic, (toss out Los Al and other QH tracks, AQU inner, too many trainers shouldn’t have a liscence, etc. they are beyond rehabilitation,) because the California mandate to synthetics was a huge and much needed wake-up to trainers that fatalities are no longer acceptable.
Let’s remember, as far as I can tell, Turfway put in the first polytrack because the track was absolutely “lost” for a week every spring when the thaw came, not for injury prevention.
Keeneland also has a need for synthetic to some degree due to many Spring meets being total washouts due to rain, and the training and racing quandry that accompanies that situation.
All that said, I totally disagree with Dickinson’s attacks on dirt training and racing, It can continue to be done correctly, and I would like to ask him 1) why did he leave the UK 2) why didn’t he train at a racetrack in the US, like everyone else, to form his anti-dirt impressions, 3) being a trainer does he really believe that dirt is that bad, after acknowledging the detrimental effect of US medication policy, and lastly, 4) since Nad al Sheba was a dirt track all those years, was it really a huge improvement this year switching to Tapeta regarding safety?
And please don’t be too sensitive that you’re “baby” is getting knocked, I just don’t get the destruction of dirt racing, haha.
Jeremy Jet

Let’s get a few things clear:

The comparisons between synthetics and dirt are misleading, as the vast majority of dirt tracks used in the U.S. at major venues are old, and have not been maintained to the degree that they should have been.

Dickenson IS a salesman, and his responses should be viewed through that lens. For example, this is disingenuous at best:

“When I was training at Tapeta for 10 years, we did a lot of scoping at the barn and never once did we see any “goop” in a horse’s throat.”

Training is NOT racing. There is no comparison between a couple of horses training together and a horse racing behind 10 other horses which are kicking back track material.

The reactions from “horsemen” whose runners have performed at Meydan should obviously be taken with a half-shaker of salt. Most of them have only had horses on the surface for short periods of time. But all of them, including those who have runners based there for longer periods, are HIGHLY unlikely to express dissatisfaction given how important Sheikh Mohammed is to their businesses.

I have nothing against Tapeta per se, but Michael is making a lot of money selling the surface, and is obviously not in a position to be objective,
its obvious….

ooh, ooh, Betfair has EQUUS to be Joan Wakefield, they are taking wagers at 7-5… I am IN !!
its obvious….

Amazing, though, that God made both horses and dirt, and they have coexisted FOREVER, but as soon as Keeneland and Michael Dickinson found a way to extract dollars from saying Gods creatures shouldn’t touch Gods earth, they want to villianize dirt. Weird. Thats all I’m saying.
H.I. McDonaugh

Both Fists,me too!
Lost In The Fog

its obvious:

Yes and God didn’t give humans wings so we probably shouldn’t be flying in airliners because it’s not natural. And we shouldn’t be living in buildings instead of caves because it’s not natural, and we shouldn’t be driving to work instead of walking there barefoot and naked because it’s not natural, and we shouldn’t be having life-saving surgeries because its not natural. In fact, we probably shouldn’t be posting on blogs instead of carving out messages on stone tablets because its not natural.
Aunt Bea

Ok, Lost In The Fog, what are you saying regarding surfaces?
Are we to just accept the claims of the promoters of synthetic surfaces just because it is supposedly a new idea , that it’s just somehow “better”;
Just toss in the can the stats from the last two Breeders Cups that G1 dirt horses just cannot perform on the crap?
Lost In The Fog

Aunt Bea:

And just how well did the east coast “dirt” horses perform at the 2003 BC at Santa Anita when the course was still “natural”? East coast horses bombing at the BC at SA has a history that pre-dates the installation of synthetics.

All synthetics are not the same just as all dirt tracks are not the same. That said, Tapeta has performed marvelously at Golden Gate Fields. If SA, Del Mar and Hollywood had properly installed Tapeta, as was the case at GGF, I think we’d be having an entirely different discussion regarding the merits of synthetic surfaces.
Aunt Bea

Point made, and accepted, although I don’t recall any E coast “dirt” horses going into that 2003 BC as particularly heavily favored either.
I have not yet knocked Tapeta though, other than to say G1 winners in NY have run lackluster on it and come back and win G1 on dirt. That’s just my observation though, not being at GGF year round.
Look, you just want surface differences at every track? Yeah, Go Tapeta, Go Poly, Go Cushion, Go Cupcakes! RahRahRah!!
Ratherrapid

I am one that thinks artificial surfaces are inevitable, although personally I’ve yet to train, ride or be on one.

all weather
less cuppy in the morning
reduced concussion in the afternoon.

I believe dirt surfaces can in certain locales be manicured to reasonable safety in the afternoon but specifically not in the morning. I’d guess one of the largest and much overlooked injury causing factors in the USA are jocks taking horses at speed over cuppy dirt tracks in the morning. Guessing that is where a lot of your pre-existing fractures come from. If the synthetics eliminate this major problem, then that alone is enough to consider them.

I think Paulick needs to horse collar John Shirrefs and get him on here. Why the supposed “rear end” problems on the synthetics, or is that just more trainer garbage of failing to prepare the horse properly for the surface its on. Is it really like galloping on velcro and is the assumption that horse hoofs need to slide on contact really valid (I think it is not valid).

Science talks Auntie. would prefer to hear that from you.
http://www.okayprice.com/ Kiester

Wow, It’s really great. I just got to know about this site. Great effort. Wish you all the best.
Lost In The Fog

Aunt Bea,

We already have surface differences at every dirt track. The dirt tracks at Belmont, Churchill Downs, Fair Grounds, Oaklawn, Saratoga etc. are as different from each other as the different versions of synthetics you mention.
Ann Banks

the down side to synthetics, tapeta included, is that there is no slide. if you watch a horse in running motion on dirt, there is a certain amount of slide to the extended running stride before the natural breakover to the next stride. this is created by momentum of speeds closing in on 40 mph. the synthetics, w/ their wax, rug fiber, plastic cable, etc. makeup have no slide[give], resulting in a jamming sensation, esp. in the hind end. though we see don’t see as many catastrophic breakdowns, it would be interesting to track the no. of horses that are out for extended periods of time due to hocks, stifles, sacrum, saccoiliac injuries. by extened i mean not just missing the next start but months or just being dropped to a level to bail out. do we have studies for this? or would you like to poll your synthetic mandated calif. trainers.
http://racinghorsesbook.com Bill O’Gorman

#33 makes a valid point – but having established that catastrophic breakdowns are reduced [ all agreed that's a good thing, I presume] you would have thought that it makes sense to shoe them “flat” so as not to compound the loss of slide on a patently non-slip surface.

We’ll leave for another day the fact that the very aggressive shoeing techniques were designed to increase traction and eliminate slide on dirt tracks!

#24 once we get into the realms of the Divine Plan for horses to run on dirt, why not take that to its logical conclusion? Leave them barefoot. “Naked as Nature intended” would be a perfectly realistic scenario for many [not all] horses at a synthetic track where no roadwork is involved getting to and from the workplace? This is a marketing man’s dream – “save money and reap the soundness benefits too”!!
Ann Banks

#34–as it stands now all horses that run on synthetics are required to run in ” queens plates”[a flat surface shoe]. still no smooth glide to the breakover on the synthetic. i also think that the shoing technique of quarter hose toe grabs and blocked heels [agressive] which some have used on dirt, is detrimental to natural breakover on dirt. but that argument is for another day. the artificial track creates an artificial break over which creates the problems. i agree whole heartedly that reduction of catastrophic break downs is a key. but could this not be accomplised by pouring the millions it takes for an synthetic into resurfacing 20, 30, 40 year old dirt suraces whose bases have been comprimised through time and whose cushion has lost all life?
http://www.racehorseherbal.com Polo

In response to Dickinson’s reply to my original comment that “Ambient temperature makes speed on the track and the horse’s system is more efficient in hot weather” —- true, there may be no scientific studies to back that specific comment, but exactly how many specific scientific studies are really out there on that equine subject in the first place? NONE. I back up my statements from personal experience in racing harness horses on those super hot humid afternoons at the fairs when they would go multiple heats and go faster each time. When I went into thoroughbred training, the same would hold true that hot weather produced speed. I speak from a purely anecdotal experience. This is certainly not true of the cool weather of Fall and Winter. There is plenty of data out there to suggest that for every 1.8 degree rise in muscle temperature, one gets a 4% improvement in performance. It has been widely shown that performances in heat is related to increase in speed of muscle contraction and a faster metabolic rate.
Aunt Bea

Anybody that thinks a horse undergoes less concussion on poly is smoking weed and has never laid hands on a horse coming off poly: 50% examine physically like cast iron.
Priscilla Peabody

Ann:
The Welfare and Safety of the Horse Summit did a video study of slide. Slide increases forces on limbs and amplifies conformational flaws. Decrease in slide decreases the hyper-extension of the fetlock because of faster breakover. Horses don’t run down on synthetic. They don’t need toe grabs because they get hold of the track better. The lack of slide that you criticize is exactly what helps horses get over the surface and reduces injury rates.

UC-Davis did a a study on hoof acceleration and ground force reaction on dirt, turf, and synthetic surfaces, and found that “The relatively low hoof accelerations, vibrations, and peak ground force reactions associated with the synthetic surface evaluated in the present study indicated that synthetic surfaces have potential for injury reduction in Thoroughbred racehorses.”

Hind end injuries have returned to normal after horsemen figured out how to properly shoe horses for synthetics. The velcro comment was just as ridiculous as Sherriffs saying that horses don’t stride out on synthetic.
Aunt Bea

Priscilla, stay in the lab; there’s a big difference between lab studies and real life (in vivo?) Also presented from “the lab” was a study last year that said bleeding can be prevented by administering “normal horse serum” IV as a prerace med, I mean who the hell can allow crap like this to be published? That was a theory from decades ago.haha
So keep reading the journals, and figure out how you can be so much smarter than everybody that does this day in and out, Good Luck!!
Ripvanwinkle

ANut uBea,
Go back to baking cookies for the country fair. Your lack of decorum, critical thinking skills and denial of facts is a joke.
Aunt Bea

Have another sip of hooch to clear your head, Rip, maybe that will help you hit the keyboard a little better HAHA
And it would help me, also, if you would kindly point out exactly what facts I’m supposedly denying.