PAULICK REPORT FORUM brought to you Breeders’ Cup: SYNTHETIC TRACKS? NO MOSS
By Ray Paulick Jerry Moss has been living a dream since moving to California from his native New York in 1960. In 1962, with trumpeter and band leader Herb Albert, he formed A&M Records and over the next quarter century produced music for a diverse group of recording artists ranging from The Carpenters, Joan Baez, Phils Ochs, and Cheech & Chong to Joe Cocker, Janet Jackson, Oingo Boingo, The Tubes and The Police—and that’s only a very small list. He and Alpert were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2006. His life as a Thoroughbred owner has been pretty groovy, too, especially in recent years. Moss and his wife Ann won the Kentucky Derby with Giacomo in 2005, and Zenyatta has carried them to consecutive Eclipse Awards as champion older mare during an unbeaten career that hit a high note at Santa Anita last November when she became the first distaffer to win the Breeders’ Cup Classic. She is currently preparing for an April 9 showdown against Horse of the Year Rachel Alexandra in the $5-million Apple Blossom Invitational at Oaklawn Park. Moss also serves on the California Horse Racing Board, having been appointed by California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger in 2004. He was the only member of that panel not to vote in favor of the synthetic track mandate when it was proposed in 2006. Moss abstained, believing more research and study was needed before such a significant change was enacted. He, along with Zenyatta’s trainer, John Shirreffs, have become critics of the synthetic surfaces. Moss spoke with the Paulick Report about the synthetic track controversy and a variety of other subjects. Let’s go back to 2006 when the push was made for synthetic tracks. What was your position? I frankly wasn’t prepared for the speed at which this was enacted. I thought we needed more data and felt we shouldn’t be rushing off to do this, causing tracks to spend $40 million based on one season at Turfway Park. Yet if you were in the room that day–and the truth is every vendor, Polytrack, Cushion Track, Tapeta, they all had people show up and do demonstrations—that meeting was hell bent on doing this. There were only five commissioners present, and the overall support from TOC and CTT (Thoroughbred Owners of California and California Thoroughbred Trainers), and particularly from two trainers, Richard Mandella and Howard Zucker, was rampant. The room was rocking to do this. First I made a statement that we should all study it enough to pick one surface and be consistent and no one took that seriously. We could have managed it better with maintenance. We took this vote, and I was hoping someone would stand up and say, ‘You can’t do this.’ I said, ‘I abstain, I think we need more time.’ We had been fortunate enough to win the Kentucky Derby the previous year with Giacomo, and I felt these tracks would make it so much more difficult for the owner of a California horse to achieve the dream, to win the Derby. Sometimes you can train on Polytrack and do well, but it’s hard to race on it and transfer the same form to dirt. The nature of the tracks changes every day. We run on three different synthetic tracks in Southern California and a fourth, quite different track, is at Golden Gate (near San Francisco), and every one of them changes every day. It’s been very hard for trainers to build up the strength of horses on these tracks. With John Sadler now president of CTT, an open poll of trainers came up with a 70% vote to reinstall dirt. I hope we live up to that. I think it’s a big, divisive thing that’s happened. We have enough divisiveness. If Santa Anita takes the lead and installs a dirt track, it would become the center of racing again in the U.S. People will still complain about the track. Everybody complains about the condition of the track, every trainer. At least with a dirt track you’ve got people with years of experience in maintaining it. With this stuff, nobody knows anything. We were told we wouldn’t need water and that couldn’t be further from the truth. We were told there would be lower maintenance costs. Our horse Tiago had a huge piece of rubber in his nose. It took us weeks and months to get this gook out of his mouth. The fibers melted from the heat. What are some of the other challenges the industry faces in California? Getting our product across to the consumer. I’m pleased that the CHRB is really concentrating on the mini-satellites. We’ve had a bill put forth in the state legislature that seemed to allow a greater number of them to commence operations, but there’s a restriction they had to be 20 miles away from an existing track or wagering site. In all this time, only one mini-satellite got set up—at a card club in Gardena, and they’re doing really well. It showed people still have an appetite for our game. A friend of mine owns movie theaters and wants to incorporate bet facilities in movie theaters. I think it’s a great idea, yet nobody seems to be jumping up and down about it. The thing that really gets me down about our game is we have so many wise men who are so negative. I feel that’s what’s plaguing our industry. Not enough guys who want to put their money up and take a shot. The dream keeps getting dimmer. There are some new thoughts blossoming. Our new CHRB chairman (Keith Brackpool) has some good ideas, some practical ideas. He’s thinking positively. What needs to happen to reverse the trend? Leadership. Are there national solutions to racing’s challenges? I firmly believe you need a national presence. We need to figure a way to do this. We’ve got these little fiefdoms, powerful in their regions. There’s no national medication policy; it’s like the Cincinnati Reds playing on different drugs than the New York Mets. It’s just not right. Different rules apply to different places. There’s got to be some national policy. It’s been tried. Business has to operate with one negotiator. It’s also gotten to be too hard for the public to get to see these races, like the Derby preps last weekend. These were some big races, but they weren’t on ESPN and were hardly reported in the papers. The Kentucky Derby still gets a good (television) rating, and the Breeders’ Cup is a big event. People do tune in on big days. But look at something like NASCAR. They are all over the place. Your expertise is in entertainment, and you’ve seen a lot of changes in the music business in terms of distribution and technology. What has the music industry done differently in the face of those changes, as opposed to how the racing industry has reacted? The internet has taken its toll on the sale of records. A large segment of the population started exchanging files and getting music for free. But artists are still making music and the emphasis for making money for these artists is through new sources—personal appearances. Artists in this for the long haul have to keep performing, attach themselves to an audience, people who show up for them, and buy their products. It is possible to be a success in the music industry. Television is more important than before. If you’re talented you’ve got to get your message to the people—and promote it. What are the chances state government can help in California? California breeding has gone way down. California homebreds used to make up a much bigger percentage of the races. State government has done very little in the time I’ve been on the CHRB. It’s very disappointing what the legislature or governor have done for the industry–so far it’s been dismal. But the state is in trouble. I understand where Arnold (Gov. Schwarzenegger) is having to reduce money for breast cancer diagnosis. How can he do something for a rich man’s game like horse racing while reducing the number of teachers in our schools. Clearly, we need some help. But positive thinking and a unified approach to the legislature and governor would certainly benefit. We’ve got to think more positively. People have to let go of some things. We have to move on. We gave up the stage coach a long time–and we moved on. You mentioned how musicians are now emphasizing personal appearances more today. Can racing ever recapture some of the on-track business it lost to simulcasting and advance-depoisit wagering? My belief is that people’s habits have changed. I don’t know if people have that much leisure time these days. In the 1980s when on-track business was strong, you still had the same number of sports–basketball, baseball, NFL, lots of different stuff. Today everybody has to work harder, our economy is still in trouble. To come out and hang out for the whole afternoon is hard for people, their attention spans have changed. That’s why you’ve got to make TV a little easier for them. Are we better off with ADW, even though it’s had a negative effect on on-track business? Yes I’d have to say so. At least it’s brought in the opportunity of a new generation that understands the internet effectively enough to place a wager. I bet on TVG now and then. I think it’s a handy tool. And I’m happy that BetFair owns TVG. Gaming professionals understand racing. They understand gaming. I think they do a pretty good job on TVG—they try to be entertaining. It would have been very easy to send Zenyatta off to Kentucky to be bred after her second Eclipse Award. What factors went into your decision to keep her in training? The initial decision to retire her was purely mine. After the Breeders’ Cup Classic I said what else can I ask her to do? I didn’t talk to my wife, to anybody on the team, I just said I think we’ve got to retire her. We went to visit her at the barn and this was a horse that obviously was liking her job. She’s been there four years now, and we were, what, going to send her to Kentucky? Before the Eclipse Awards, my wife and I said if John thinks she can go another year and she’s happy, let’s do it. She loves the show, she loves the people. The Classic didn’t take that much out of her. John and Dottie (racing manager Dottie Ingordo, Shirreffs’ wife) said, ‘Yeah, she can be pretty good next year.’ The decision to retire her was an emotional one on my part and the decision to keep her in training was more of a reasonable one. She’s a star. How can racing seize the opportunity to promote the Apple Blossom and any other races involving Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra? I believe Mr. (Charles) Cella is a great showman. He’s almost in a class by himself. Back in 1927, someone said, ‘Mr. O’Brien the most amazing thing has happened; a man has flown across the Atlantic Ocean all by himself.’ O’Brien says, ‘That’s fantastic, but let me know when a committee does it. That would be amazing.’ The point is an individual can accomplish anything. Charlie was able to pull this off and you’ve got to give him credit for it. Whatever devise he wants to promote this race is absolutely fine, and I believe he’ll come out of it making money.
Tags: A & M Records, Ann Moss, Apple Blossom, arnold schwarzenegger, Breeders' Cup, breeders' cup classic, California, Charles Cella, Cheech & Chong, Giacomo, Herb Albert, Janet Jackson, jerry moss, Joan Baez, Joe Cocker, john shirreffs, mike smith, New York, oaklawn park, Oingo Boingo, Paulick Report, Paulick Report Forum, Phils Ochs, Rachel Alexandra, Ray Paulick, The Police, The Tubes
February 24th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
I’m just excited to see Phil Ochs and Oingo Boingo namechecked in a racing article; it’s also interesting to see television mentioned when I probably find most ‘new’ bands via radio (albeit online radio) - KEXP and XPN are great for that. But music aside, it’s nice to see another voice for some sort of national racing body.
February 24th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
а все таки: спасибо. а82ч
February 24th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
MEHOONGE: SOUNDS GOOD TO ME!
February 24th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
“The nature of the tracks changes every day. We run on three different synthetic tracks in Southern California and a fourth, quite different track, is at Golden Gate (near San Francisco), and every one of them changes every day”
Yes Jerry we know exactly what you are talking about. Here in the North East we have the same problem. Take a look at Aqueduct over the weekend. Maybe we can switch with CA.
By ED FOUNTAINE
Last Updated: 1:35 AM, February 22, 2010
Posted: 1:35 AM, February 22, 2010
Punters trying to take advantage of golden-rail speed bias on Saturday, when 7 of 10 winners went gate-to-wire, took it on the chin yesterday, when only two winners led all the way, and the inside wasn’t the best place to be.
February 24th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
well I am confused, did anybody answer the question of where do we put the blame for fatal breakdowns??
February 24th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Mr. Moss has an excellent quote in the article:
“And I’m happy that BetFair owns TVG. Gaming professionals understand racing. They understand gaming.”
The problem in California and the OTB’s is that you have very few, if any, gaming professionals running the actual fairground facilities. The only OTB hope for the industry is a string of privately owned OTB’s that have the ability to cater to players.
February 24th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
mehoonge = “and all the same: Thank you. a82ch”
Sheila: In reality, since we don’t really know everything that goes into making any particular horse break down on the track - and probably won’t for some time, if ever, the answer is: no one knows. But here’s the article PR was talking about: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/24/latest-fatality-statistics-fuel-debate/
February 24th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
“The only OTB hope for the industry is a string of privately owned OTB’s that have the ability to cater to players”
I notice that the TAB organization in Australia (identical to OTB here) offers fixed odds wagering. Why can’t we have this here? That would be ‘catering to players’.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Slowly but surely the truth about synthetic surfaces is coming out.
Where will the people who have misled us go now?
Why do they still have influence in California Racing?
Synthetic surfaces are the biggest fraud in the history of Horse Racing in the United States.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Finally someone who sounds intelligent, has some ideas, understands the racing industry, willing to try new things, wants to boost energy back into racing with ideas knowing that air time is important by advertising this game. I found Jerry Moss refreshing and full of hope for racing. Why don’t they put him in charge? He is so right on the drug laws which vary from state to state….Why isn’t it unified? It doesn’t make any sense.
As far as fataltiies, they will continue no matter what surface these animals run on. Tracks in some cases are to blame including dirt, as well as, trainers who run sore horses. Why run on bute? It tells me something is wrong…not always I know, but in many cases it is. You know some horses are running with screws, injected ankles, or are from poor breeding stock, yet these are never included in the findings. Dirt tracks can be rock hard and wreck havoc on hooves,legs and body. Sealed tracks can promote body soreness as well as leg and hoof problems, although the jocks love them because they are safer for themselves. Synthetics have their issues, one being what Mr. Moss mentioned dealing with Tiago.
Whatever is used, it needs to be forgiving and safe without the constant speed bias changed etc. Maintaining a safe track is an art as well as experienced track superintendents not someone’s friend who managed a mowing lawn service.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
OBS adjusts maintenance
procedures for synthetic track
Other than the maintenance routine for its synthetic Safetrack surface, the Ocala Breeders’ Sales Co. has not changed much about its one-mile all-weather track, which was installed in 2008.
Sorry this did not turn out in purple, the OBS part. It is a good article on maintaining their synthetic track. Oh well I tried. I know it would never change anyone’s mind, but it backed up Jerry Moss on the care that these surfaces need and how it was never mentioned but….these people took the bull by the horns and worked solved the issues themselves.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
As a fan of racing here in California who would watch the CHRB meetings when they were on line and listened when they converted to just audio, I miss not being able to see and hear the live action of a meeting to some degree, but I was always interested to know what was being done to help rescue my favorite sport. I so agree with Mr. Moss that when the mandate issue on sythetic tracks came up, it was a total do it now or pay the price kind of ultimatum. Normally I would hear the board do a lot of debating and then put the question out there for public opinion and feedback. It just didn’t seem to follow normal proceedure, but I sent everyone I could think of my opinion anyway. Jerry you are oh so right, they should have studied this thing first. Just look at all the money that was wasted installing those tracks that could have been spent in other ways to help our sport out. GO ZENYATTA!
February 24th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Great interview!
Mr Moss recognizes that horse racing needs a national profile to generate fans and create new horsplayers. And keeping star horses like Zenyatta racing longer is critical to growing the sport. I wish more people in the industry would follow his, and Jess Jackson’s, lead.
“Dead Man’s Party” was an awesome album by the way, too bad A&M let Oingo Boingo move to MCA by that time.
February 24th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
Funny how Keeneland buys a synthetics company then installs it at it’s home course in order to try and get other tracks to follow. Sadly the bluegrass is a joke of a race now and should be a listed stake. Somebody get the IRS to check where all their money is going, cause it sure isn’t going towards purses.
February 24th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
The poll cited by John Sadler was not an objective, credible poll. That 70% was thrown out there by him, the trainer who was kicked off the CTT in 2008 for drug violations.
Santa Anita’s surface is safe and consistent, as supported by Equibase data. The synthetic track is favored by Mandella, McPeek, Clement, Hofmans, Hollendorfer, McAnally, and dozens of others in Ca.
Moss’s trainer said that “horses don’t stride out on synthetics.” Anyone else see that as a ridiculous statement?
February 24th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Ray, how about an interview with someone with real knowledge about synthetics for a balanced point of view?
February 24th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Pricilla, the truth is and always has been right in front of you. It’s about money. These guys thought every track in the nation would put Polytrack in.
I submitted a question to the CHRB more than once and asked if Rick Arthur had ever recieved any compensation from any synthetic surfaces manufacturer or their subsidiaries or agents. Still no answer.
This is Fraud plain and simple. Like Barry Irwin Says Follow the money.
February 24th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
The science on these tracks is valid. Nobody can dispute the fact that dirt is deadly.
This debate reminds me of the global warming deniers. No amount of evidence can convince them. It’s all a hoax - or in your words, “fraud”
February 24th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Pricilla, where have you been? Climategate and Polygate are similar. It’s about people lying to the public to make money.
February 24th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Pricilla, please read this and then give me your opinion. You have been lied to.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/24/latest-fatality-statistics-fuel-debate/
February 24th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Thanks Ray for another well done interview. I am like Anne and think someone like Jerry Moss should be in charge of the industry it is time for all of us to pull together and demand this as it is in many other sports. It is absolutely ridiculous that we are this behind.
I believe that Jerry is so right about Charles Cella I can’t say enough about how this will impact our city (Hot Springs, Arkansas) and racing. I continue to pray that both horses stay safe and sound.
February 24th, 2010 at 7:26 pm
Trainer #1: the track is to deep. my horse just bowed.
Trainer #2: the track is too hard. my horse just fractured.
Truth: Injury causing variables:
80%: trainer negligence in training or diagnostics.
20% everything else, including dirt tracks (about 1% if the track is really really hard, but you can train for that also.)
that’s my opinion, although I did hear both stories on the same race day at the Woodlands race track about 1993.
February 24th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
Truth #1: If there is any physical weakness in a racehorses lower limbs, synthetics will make them plainly apparent as it is a very unforgiving surface, day in day out.
Truth #2: On dirt surfaces receiving inclement weather, a practiced observer will repeatedly see horses from the same outfits galloping, 2 minute licking and breezing over bad surfaces, to “stay on schedule”. Often when the horn sounds, the ambulance crew and outriders tend to the victims of the same cast of suspects.
Wake up everybody, we can do better than this.
February 24th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Andrew, fossil fuels are dirty. What benefit do we have from sticking with them, regardless of what the global climate is doing?
This is the same argument with surfaces. What benefit do we get from dirt? How is it better? Does it have better shock absorption? Are there fewer deaths? Does it handle weather? What is the strongest argument that dirt is better?
With less slide, we get less overextention of the fetlock joint, hence fewer bows, fewer sesamoid fractures. During heavy rain, we can still train and run. Horses stay sounder, field sizes increase, handle is boosted.
Please let us know how dirt is superior.
February 24th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/John-Pricci/comments/02132010-as-dirt-track-looms-santa-anita-synthetics-issue-rages-on/#comments
http://www.drf.com/news/article/110308.html
Excerpt:
Framing the synthetic debate, as some of the surfaces’ proponents do, as a choice between white-knight safety advocates and selfish, disgruntled horseplayers is an offensive ploy that obscures the facts. If these new surfaces were clearly safer, everyone would adjust and get behind them, but neither the anecdotal nor scientific evidence suggests that is the case.
http://www.nctimes.com/sports/equestrian/racing/article_76e60435-8242-51d3-9bc9-1a7debc5b864.html
Excerpt:
“Maintenance is the absolute critical thing,” said Winstar Farm’s Bill Casner, who owns Colonel John, the morning-line favorite in Del Mar’s $1 million Pacific Classic on Sunday. “They have tightened up the Del Mar surface this year. The first year, it was slow but safe. It was pretty good last year. This year it sounds like a herd of buffalo down there on the track.”
http://horseracing.bloginky.com/2009/10/06/shirreffs-running-on-synthetics-like-running-on-velcro/
Excerpt:
With the Breeders’ Cup at Santa Anita Park just one month away and Keeneland’s Fall meet kicking off this Friday, one can bet the already heated debate surrounding the merits of synthetic tracks will be continue to be one of the foremost issues in the racing community.
California-based trainer John Shirreffs, who conditions undefeated champion Zenyatta, has long been a vocal opponent of synthetic tracks and, during a national teleconference today, he detailed why he feels the surface does more harm than good in developing young prospects.
“I personally hate synthetics,” Shirreffs said. “I’m more into developing young horses and I find that young horses really don’t like training on synthetics. I don’t know if you can imagine training on Velcro. When the foot lands, it doesn’t slide, it sticks to the ground. Depending on how synthetic the surface is, the horse can’t rotate the foot into the track and push off.
“Imagine running around flat-footed all the time without getting up on your toes and pushing off,” Shirreffs continued. “That’s probably how it would feel to a human.”
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February 24th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
We can’t fathom why Sherriffs thinks that way after all of his good horses have stayed sound and won on synthetics and then gone on to win on dirt.
His quote about rotating the foot into the track is exactly what helps horses with flawed conformation stay sound on synthetics. Horses that toe-in or toe-out increase that rotation with more slide, exaggerating that conformational flaw and stressing the limb more, causing injury. Synthetic tracks help horses like these. Well Armed is a poster boy for keeping such a horse sound.
As for how it would feel to a human, that part is easy. Just go out there and run over a synthetic surface. It’s easy. Your ankles don’t twist, even over a heavily used surface. Try walking on a dirt track after horses have trained on it and see if your ankles don’t bend.
February 25th, 2010 at 2:16 am
The biggest problem is that too many people see the track surface as the root of all problems. The surface alone is not responsible for causing/saving horses: It’s a combination of the condition of the horse running (and, obviously, how many pain-killing meds and diuretics he’s on), the shoes he’s wearing (using toe-grabs on a synthetic track is beyond stupid - using them on any surface is dangerous) and the sharpness of the turns and size of the track. If America could come up with one track - just ONE - as a test case using any surface you like, with wide turns and a long home stretch, no medication allowed in the horses and no toe-grabs on the shoes, I’ll bet your fatality rate would plunge. Can’t anybody try this just ONCE?????
February 25th, 2010 at 9:30 am
G. Rarick:
Agreed and “ratherrapid” got a good perspective too.
When all is said and done….it always comes down to the trainer knowing his/her horse; conditions, surface, weather, jock, owner included.
March 1st, 2010 at 5:31 am
Hello guys… I’m brand new here but I can not wait to begin having/getting some wonderful discussions with you all! I just figured i would introduce myself to you all so hiya!