MARCH FOOLS
By Ray Paulick
What’s that old expression often repeated in the legal world: He who represents himself has a fool for a client? I think a similar statement can be said of some horse owners: He who makes decisions on where and when his horses should run has a fool for a trainer.
That phrase came to mind, not once, but twice this week when the owners of two of America’s highest-profile Thoroughbreds, Horse of the Year Rachel Alexandra and early Kentucky Derby favorite Eskendereya, made the type of decisions that are better left to their trainers. And the real trainers of these two horses, Steve Asmussen and Todd Pletcher, respectively, are anything but fools. Both are locks to someday be inducted into the National Museum of Racing Hall of Fame.
Jess Jackson struck first when he issued a press release Sunday declaring Rachel Alexandra out of the April 9 Apple Blossom Invitational at Oaklawn Park, less than 24 hours after she was defeated in the New Orleans Ladies at Fair Grounds.
“Yesterday’s race while a disappointment, helped us define Rachel Alexandra’s racing condition,” Jackson said. “While she is healthy, just as I had anticipated, she is not in top form. Therefore, I decided today she will not be going to the Oaklawn Invitational on April 9. Steve and I discussed this fully and we now regret we tried to accelerate her training in order meet the Apple Blossom schedule. We have a whole season before us to help define her greatness. She will tell us when her next race will be.”
The key phrase in the above paragraph is “Therefore, I decided…”
Only a few hours earlier, the Fair Grounds media office sent out the following comments from Asmussen, a two-time Eclipse Award-winning trainer: “We don’t have any negative indications yet today. Like anything, you want to be 100% and if you’re not you go from there. We don’t have any negative this morning other than the loss and the hurt feelings of yesterday. Our main concern is how Rachel feels and her well-being and we’re very pleased with her today.”
Two days later, Ahmed Zayat made a decision to pull his Fasig-Tipton Fountain of Youth winner Eskendereya from an intended start in this Saturday’s Florida Derby and have Pletcher instead send him to Aqueduct for the Wood Memorial on April 3.
“The main issue is timing,” Zayat was quoted in Daily Racing Form as saying. “I’m not really comfortable off the six weeks (the gap between the Florida Derby and Kentucky Derby). If I’m genuine about the Kentucky Derby, I need to give the prep I want to make sure he peaks on the right day.”
Zayat, who has been sued by Fifth Third Bank over alleged delinquency on a $34-million loan and has put his racing stable in Chapter 11 bankruptcy, like Jackson has owned racehorses for only a few years. Apparently, he thinks he knows more about training a Thoroughbred than Pletcher, a four-time Eclipse Award winner.
Earlier in the week, Pletcher was quoted in the Miami Herald saying he thought six weeks between starts was just right for Eskendereya. “He won an allowance (at Gulfstream) six weeks out from the Fountain of Youth,” Pletcher said. “So, six weeks seems like good spacing for him.”
Cynics may be thinking Jackson and Zayat–two owners with immodestly sized egos—might be fibbing about their decisions. In the case of Jackson, the real reason to skip the Apple Blossom could be based more on the winning performance by unbeaten champion Zenyatta at Santa Anita the same afternoon Rachel Alexandra lost. He can’t be blamed for wanting no part of Zenyatta at Oaklawn, and for that I say he’s nobody’s fool.
Zayat’s reason could be entirely different. The beleaguered owner has been entertaining offers to sell all or part of Eskendereya to help satisfy his loan obligations, and it’s possible he wants to finalize a deal before the son of Giant’s Causeway makes his next start.
I hope that’s the case. If Zayat thinks he can train a horse better than Pletcher, he really is a fool.
Copyright © 2010, The Paulick Report
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Tags: ahmed zayat, Apple Blossom Invitational, Eskendereya, fair grounds, fasig-tipton fountain of youth, Florida Derby, jess jackson, kentucky derby, National Museum of Racing Hall of Fame, New Orleans Ladies, oaklawn park, Paulick Report, Rachel Alexandra, Ray Paulick, steve asmussen, todd pletcher
March 18th, 2010 at 7:32 am
When the passengers start trying to fly the airplane it’s time to get off!
March 18th, 2010 at 7:38 am
While the trainers must be respected, let us remember that it is the owner that has made the financial investment in these equine athletes. While both the owner and trainer are emotionally involved, I feel that, yes, the owner should have the final say on their horse’s future.
March 18th, 2010 at 8:02 am
Renee,
I can only imagine what Bobby Frankel would have said to an owner who told his trainer where to run. Many an old school trainer would have told Zayat: “then what do you need me for? Get your horses out of here”. Of course they aren’t too many old school trainers in the business any more.
March 18th, 2010 at 8:23 am
By the same token, on lower levels, I wish a lot more owners WOULD speak up for their horses or at least be educated about them… or take responsibility for them. I mean, we all held Ernie Paragallo absolutely accountable for the condition his horses were in, as he owned them, right? But when owners take responsibility for their horses in other ways, it’s bad? Ultimately the trainer works FOR the owner, which means, to me, the owner is the boss, whether I think their decisions are stupid or not.
March 18th, 2010 at 8:26 am
Unfortunately, he who pays the piper calls the tune. With business the way it is, trainers chose to put up with owner interference rather than lose top class horses.
March 18th, 2010 at 8:39 am
Normally I’d agree that the trainer should be making the calls, but let’s recall Pletcher’s dismal Derby record…
March 18th, 2010 at 8:43 am
Renee,
I agree the owner should have the final say on the horse’s future. However, a tough race in the Wood is likely to derail ESK’s chances of running in the Derby and TC. Remember, how many times the Wood has been run in the slop or mud. Those are conditions most trainers would try to avoid if that race was not their primary goal. If ESK gets the tough race Zayat wants, will he be able to go forward in a big race like the Derby distance of 1 1/4? A gruelling, tough race is more likely to knock a horse off a campaign just like it did with Rachel Alexandra in the Woodward. The owner looks at it from the perspective of what it takes to win, while the trainer does too, they must also weigh the possible negative scenarios. Further, why add shipping, unfamiliar surroundings, NY’s detention barn stress, etc., prior to a gruelling Derby trail?
March 18th, 2010 at 8:57 am
One word explains why this happens:EGO!
March 18th, 2010 at 8:59 am
I really hope that Eskendereya is sold. Zayat gives me the creeps. I have very little sympathy for people like him who end up in bankruptcy court. Maybe, given the fact that Eskendereya is by Giant’s Causeway John Magnier and the Coolmore team will step in to buy him. This horse has a boat load of talent but if Zayat starts plotting his career just like he plotted his equine investment strategy this will not end well.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:07 am
I’m surprised Jackson hasn’t bought Eskendereya yet. He can’t develop a good horse.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:12 am
What I really love, and have seen happen many times — almost always without success I might add — is when owners decide to become trainers. More money than sense.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:19 am
There’s a reason they’re called “owners.” A smart owner will make the best decision for the horse with input from the trainer obviously heavily weighted, but these guys pay the bills, and there is no sport without them. From what I’ve read, I’m not a huge fan of either of these guys, but it’s their right to say what they want about their horses. As a trainer, every owner I have is my boss. If they want to do something with their horse that I find I think is bad for the animal, I will tell them to move their horse elsewhere. I haven’t lost any that way yet.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:30 am
Why would an owner pass up a Grade I race in his back yard when he is heavy favorite. If he were retire today without Grade I he would stand for 5,000. Something is not right with this picture. I’m not buying he needs hard race. Zayat never got involved with Baffert when he had Pioneerof The Nile. In Jacksons case he is just an old man enjoying talking about his horse like it’s his kid. Jackson knows his filly can’t beat Zenyatta.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:30 am
Ray:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I don’t totally agree that these owners are “FOOLS”!!!! As an owner, I continue struggle with such decisions BUT the OWNER is the only person who truly has ALL OF THE FACTS..
Relax, take it easy and remember that Jess Jackson especially has made some amazing race decisions to advance Rachel’s career.
I agree that there are two sides to this but someone has to make the ultimate decision and since the OWNER owns the horse, he/she has to make the final decision AND LIVE BY IT!!!
You need to reconsider your headline Ray because it is totally unfair to Owners!!!!
Jerry Jam
March 18th, 2010 at 9:31 am
Ray, yes Frankel was legendary for saying that. Others might too if they had the Juddmonte lifetime agreement and he was surrepitious with those he thought might step up and pay the big money. Frankel might have been the only trainer who could convince Jackson to leave the training to him.
Incidently, Jerry Moss was one of those Frankel clients. Their homebreds not considered the quality needed to win the big ones. Quite a hoot when Giacomo took the KY Derby, a race coveted so much by Frankel.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:32 am
Any trainer worth his salt will always welcome input and suggestions from an owner regarding the horse, but ultimately all decisions regarding the horses way forward should be made by the trainer. A classic example of how not to behave as an owner is Michael Gill, an owner who “trained” his horses behind a veil of weak trainers who did anything Gill wanted in order to maintain the flow of cash he brought to the table. A classic example of how to behave as owners are Jerry and Ann Moss who allow John Sheriff’s to do his job, with amazing results that ultimately benefit the owner and most importantly the horse.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:33 am
Agreed
Owners make real bad “wanna be ” trainers 95% of the time. More so if they suffer from bloated ego syndrome.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:38 am
Trainers are fond of saying, “two people can’t train one horse”. Obviously, trainers make mistakes too. Anybody remember the story of 1951 Kentucky Derby winner Count Turf? Trainer Sol Rutchick told Count Turf’s owner Jack Amiel, “this ain’t no Derby horse—keep him here in New York and we’ll make some money running in sprint races”. If Jack Amiel had listened to his trainer he wouldn’t have received the blanket of roses and that big, gold cup that he coveted so much.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:40 am
I’m reminded of the story of the trainer whose owner asked him to send him a condition book. The trainer got a copy, stapled it completely shut, and mailed it to him. Can’t remember who the trainer was. It was an old-timer, Jerkins and Jolley come to mind…
March 18th, 2010 at 9:47 am
Owners that like to call the shots only means they have no respect and faith in their trainer. So you can’t blame them for trying. There are not a lot of really sharp trainers out there anyway. Just a handful that come to mind.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Did you verify that the advice didn’t come from Pletcher and was announced by Zayat, or just assume it, so you could slam someone?
March 18th, 2010 at 10:12 am
From a players perspective most of the information we get on the condition of any horse be it trainer or owner is murky and should be discarded. All we can do is evaluate the conditions and the quality of the competition, read between the lines and that boils down to bet or not to bet. Form cycles are always tough to nail down but a 1/9 shot isn’t by any means a handicappers dream. The majority of 2yo’s and 3yo’s are constantly over rated, that alone produces value for players providing your thing is betting babies, whereas I tend to avoid them or bet for fun. Once a player gets caught up in the media hype, I can assure you he or she is headed for a losing streak. Granted the media is just concerned about the “cream of the crop” that’s their job and they aren’t always wrong. I will say this, over the last few years they have brought to the forefront the inner workings of the industry, information most players were oblivious to.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:19 am
HE WHO HAS THE MONEY MAKES THE RULES!!!! It’s just that simple. And as for “old school trainers”….to me that means trainers with INTEGRITY….and yeah, there aren’t many of those around are there?
Can you for a second IMAGINE Asmussen or Pletcher telling an owner that has the TOP horse in their barn to get out….HAHAHA!!!!! NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS. They’d rather kiss the owners A$$ than see that horse walk out of their barn.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:20 am
Jockeys talk about “their business”. Jockey’s agents talk about “their business”. Trainers talk about “their business”. Obviously racing is also a business for vets, farriers, feed dealers, etc; etc. And what makes all of these businesses go? Money from horse owners and it is supposed to be just a “hobby” for him. That’s why most of the small owners have left the game. If you are from an oil rich country in the Middle East or you own a nationally acclaimed winery you can still afford to dream. The people who put up the money deserve a say in what happens to their horses.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Mr Zayat’s ego, ambition and proclamations have dug him into quite a hole. “When you find yourself in a hole - stop digging” I do, however wish him and Todd Pletcher good luck with Eskandreya.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:37 am
Jerry,
As an owner and trainer, I appreciate your opinion. However, I don’t believe you can compare the depth of your knowledge and experience with these two individuals.
Both have invested millions in dozens or perhaps hundreds of well bred, expensive horses in a relatively short time. Exclusive of Pioneer of the Nile, Curlin&Rachel, one would have expected a proportion to be top horses if properly managed. What percentage of Jackson’s in Asmussen’s care and how many of Zayats with top trainers, realized their full potential? Where are they?
It’s not too hard when you have a top horse to find an easier spot. I would not call that brilliant. I think it’s much more challenging for an owner to see a minor decline in a horse that is running on guts as a red flag. You have to admit Curlin was on a slide before the BC loss. At her best, RA could possibly have won the Travers, but if she was not at her best, why put her on her belly in an easier field? Why not rest and regroup? The same logic applies to running a tough race in the Wood before the Ky Derby; a tough race followed by a gruelling 1 1/4 mile. A small maybe if you need the graded earnings to get in but ESK doesn’t. It simply does not make sense. These owners don’t have the perspective or experience gained from 30 years of running horses.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:45 am
Maybe Zayat has a deal pending and needs another week or two to get it done. A bad race in the FLA Derby could put an end to the deal? I agree at this level of racing the trainer should be making the calls.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:52 am
As an owner I understand the temptations of “beating ones chest” and demanding the trainer follow my directives. However I also understand that I am not the one who is with the horse on an ongoing daily basis; and therefore not capable of making decisions based purely upon what’s best for the horse.
In short micro-managing in my humble opinion is never a good way to oversee any organization.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Paulick,
I agree that it’s foolhardy for an owner to get involved with selecting races, especially when it involves a colt who just ran off the screen and is the Derby favorite. But owners and trainers almost always converse about options and choose races together. It’s certainly within an owner’s right to dictate what his desires and expectations are. Trainers then have to decide if he/she can meet those demands in a manner that fits with what’s best for the horse. It’s usually not an antagonistic process.
The real focus of your story, and the part that is hard to explain, is why Pletcher is putting up with his expertise being questioned, especially in such a public manner. If you’re looking for something devious or salacious - and you usually are - I would offer that Zayat probably owes Pletcher a couple months of training bills, which could be tens of thousands of dollars when you’re dealing with Zayat’s numbers. Pletcher might be eating this public embarassment to ensure he is paid his money.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:06 am
As one who has managed some high-profile horses in the past, I am, broadly speaking, quite sympathetic to trainers in this discussion. Having said that, it should be noted that trainers often have agendas of their own, and it would be naïve to think that those agendas are always aligned with the best interests of the horse and/or the owner’s interests.
I am in no way defending either Zayat or Jackson, but the notion that trainers dispassionately and consistently make correct management decisions, is, of course, sheer fantasy.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:06 am
I have no problem with an owner making decisions about when and where their horses run, just as long as they are willing to take the blame when it doesnt work out. and 99% of the time, it doesn’t. The one time it does, it is in spite of them.
If you are an owner, and you know so much, then take out a trainers license and do it yourself.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:09 am
South of the Border.
I think you might be onto something there…..it’s always about $$$ and the “delay” in running the horse would buy time to get a deal done….something rings very true about that scenario….
March 18th, 2010 at 11:26 am
JS, Let’s see what develops!
March 18th, 2010 at 11:28 am
What if JJ is the buyer?
March 18th, 2010 at 11:32 am
Here is Pletcher’s Kentucky Derby record:
Number of Derby’s entered = 10
Starters = 24
Wins = 0
Finished 2nd or 3rd = 3 times
Finished worse than 4th = 19 times including:
13 finishes worse than 10th with
5 dead last finishes and 3 second last finishes
He’s finished dead last or second last in 7 of the 10 Derby’s he’s entered.
He’s failed to hit the superfecta in 5 of the 10 Derby’s he’s entered.
He’s entered 3 or more starters in 4 Derby’s and only hit the board with 1 horse in those Derby’s.
Converted to percents, he’s finished 2nd or dead last in 70% of the Derby’s he’s entered, finished worse than 4th with 79% of his starters and worse than 10th with 54% of his starters. Those stats are MUCH worse than Derby trainers on average.
Although Zayat may be a “fool” it’s not because he decided to take control of his Derby starter. It’s because he hired Pletcher to train a serious Derby contender. I’ll go so far as to say that anybody who hires Pletcher with the hopes of winning a Derby is a fool.
Please spare me the “he’s never started a favorite” excuse. Chip Woolley, Mike Matz, John Shirreffs, Barclay Tagg and John Ward have never started a Derby favorite either but they’ve all won in the last decade.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:35 am
Fishy. It DOES seem like Zayat’s got some deal in the works. I wouldn’t want to be in Pletcher’s shoes, training for an owner going through bankruptcy. Of course, that still means the dude has more money than I do, but still. I would imagine that the people who know the horse the best are the people who are around the horse every single day, and that ain’t the owner. Sure, Zayat has every right to make the call. He’s paying the bills (sort of). But we’re not talking about some fair circuit trainer here. Yeah, Pletcher hasn’t won the Derby but neither have the majority of trainers. Seems like the right call would have been to have Pletcher make the statement. This way, it looks like there was a major disagreement. Bad form.
There was an obvious disagreement with Asmussen and Jackson. Do you think Jackson even talked to Asmussen afterwards? Or did his fear just take over?
One thing I do hate is this six weeks thing. Remember when horses used to run TWO weeks out? Coincidentally, that was about the last time we had a Triple Crown winner. No wonder there’s no consistency. These three-year-olds don’t run enough to develop any.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:40 am
If you hire someone to do a job you should let him or her do it. If a trainer went down to an owners business and started telling people what to do it would take that owner about ten minutes to call security. The above post that said that these trainers will kiss any owners a$$ to get a good horse is right on the money. The great jockey EDDIE D. said it best when he said “their aren’t any horse trainers left in the business,they’re just a bunch of car salesmen
March 18th, 2010 at 11:59 am
Why all the negativity about Mr. Jackson? RA is his horse. If you don’t like his decisions, go buy your own racehorse. The Keeneland 2YO sale is coming up in April, and as always, some graded stakeswinners will emerge from its catalog. Go put your own money on the line, and then let us know how you feel as an owner. You will quickly realize that the entire game is not, and should not, be left entirely to trainers. If my Derby prospect can legitimately run in the Blue Grass or the Wood or the Fla. Derby or the Arkansas Derby, then that horse is going to the Bluegrass because I live here and love KY racing. Racing needs more actual owners and fewer negative critics of the existing owners.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
We all have to realize we are dealing with owners who are used to calling the shots as they are in charge in the arena where they made their money in the first place. The problem with some owners/bosses is that they think they know more than everyone, even those who specialize in a certain area. The wise owner/boss allows his lieutenants to make the decisions that they are experts in and not let his ego or “boss mentality” as I like to call it, get in the way of the best, most informed decision to be made in any particular scenario.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Ray—maybe these “fools” should take their money and buy an NFL franchise or some other endeavor. Just remember who puts up the money to make this whole game go.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
Owners in general do not have the knowledge and experience of the trainers. However, the owner is paying the bills and taking all the financial risk. And, in this sport, most horses barely earn half of what it costs them to train. If the owner cannot be involved in some of the management of the horse such as where they will run, there would probably be no owners at all since they would be losing money and not even enjoying it. And usually, the owner and trainer will discuss and come to an agreement amicably about where to run the horse. Also, one other poster mentioned that trainers sometimes have their own agendas. It is not uncommon for a trainer to want to enter a horse in an obviously unsuitable race because the racing secretary wants him to. And, while I have sympathy for the racing secretary trying to fill races, such decisions are clearly adverse to the owner (and perhaps the fans who are expecting horses to be placed properly).
March 18th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
#40 Bob C.
About your NFL reference, see Redskins owner Daniel Snyder. Just because you can afford a horse, or a football team doesn’t mean you know anything about it. Look how many people own cars that can’t even drive them.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
The game is this, in a nutshell. The owner has all the money, which he has made in another business or someone left to him. The trainer has all the experience and expertise in dealing with the horse. The game is over when the owner has the experience and the trainer has the money.
Observations of a lifetime:
[1] Business must be easy, based on observation of the people that make enough money to own horses.
[2]Having made the money, if you want to get your picture in the paper then it’s an expensive business unless you are capable of doing something noteworthy or very bad.
[3] The most successful trainers - unless they are dreadful horsemen - will nowadays always be the most plausible ones. The trainer’s job is perceived as getting someone to buy good horses rather than as making good horses. And then trying to train the owner.
[4] Every owner knows an independent expert adviser who can point out what the trainer does wrong.
[5] The biggest single cause of disaster in racing is …… Owner Input.
March 18th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
When an admitted bettor/owner is looking for a “tougher” race, it’s not for a piece of the racing purse.
1. He has a derby contender.
2. Nothing like losing a race to “darken” a horse’s form….
3. ….In order to cash a bigger payday Derby day, both on and off the track.
If Eskendereya wins the Wood, I’ll be shocked!
March 18th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
I think we’re comparing apples & oranges here. What looks like two situations of an owner overuling a trainer’s advice, I don’t think this is the case with Eskendereya, regardless of what motives one perceives. Eksendereya likely will make the money cut, or at least should, with a good finish in the Wood. Second, Pletcher has another Derby hopeful who was seemingly already committed to a Derby prep now, rather than later. Why would a trainer want to have multiple entries in the same big race?
Now, concerning Jackson, all I can say, “foot in mouth,” overcommitting a horse, then backing off said commitment after a winter full of antagonizing over the big match up between the ladies.
March 18th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
Common sense tells me an owner that has just some knowledge about horses can be a dangerous thing to his pocket book and the horses. I would have trust in the opinion of those that have a hands on experience with anything, especially horses. Not a lot to think about in my opinion unless you enjoy speculating on subjects like this. That’s OK, someone here will be right but I would rather speculate on a race.
March 18th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Did anyone notice that Winstar has their derby prospect in the Florida who has a similar running style to Zayats horse. Maybe the client who is still Solvent won the battle to run their horse where they wanted to.
Zayat then put out a press release to make it look like it was his idea to miss FL Derby and point to Wood.
Just maybe this is the real reason for the change of race…..
March 18th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
“something wrong was all about it (Paulick’s Post) that I cannot fathom yet”. where to begin?
1. The assumption that Plecher and Assmussen know what they are doing.
possibly we’ll one day have a Paulick report on the injury rates in those stables.
2. The assumption that the owners cannot possibly know because they are owners. Is this rocket science?
3. The idea–a continuing thematic exercise by “fans” as opposed to persons who “know” and are involved, that owners should give their horse to the trainer and get out of the way. Let’s analyze–my money, my horse, my energy, my time, my considerable constant trouble. Sure, I’ll give my horse to some idiot and let him make all the decisions. makes perfect sense.
James McIngvale sounded the most telling blow for the nonsense in the Paulick post when in 1998 he summarily fired Zito and put his own sister–a secretary in one of his furniture stores–in charge of his stable. I’d walked through Zito’s McIngvale operation at KY Horse Center in Lexington the week before, and had actively watched those horses train(or fail to train.). Zito’s stable there was a sad operation, and McIngvale made absolutely the right call.
My opinion–Paulick has it azz backwards on the owner trainer relation and this attitude is one thing that is killing the sport.
March 18th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Certainly owners should have a huge say in the decisions regarding their horses. Isn’t hiring a four-time Eclipse award winning trainer and paying him big bucks to make your horse a Derby contender a huge decision?
Going off half-cocked and throwing your trainer under a bus is sheer ego and screams of desperation. I suspected what others here do that something’s in the works financially when I heard about it.
March 18th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Like anybody here would race Rachel in the biggest start of her career against the great Zen a mere month after Rachel’s last race.
Jess Jackson has every right as the owner to say what he wants…I mean Jerry Moss says whatever he wants and waltzes around decisions until he’s darn good and ready (maybe the BC, maybe the Ladies, maybe the BC, maybe the Ladies, we’ll let the horse tell us) the same “blah blah” as JJ, but somehow much better tolerated than the blunt JJ…me, I like blunt people.
March 18th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Regarding my post, #2, above…
I am speaking on behalf of all owners who own horses that race at all levels of competition, from claimers to allowance to stakes horses. I am not just talking about the Zayat Stable or Jess Jackson scenario…
Ray…regarding your post that was in response to mine…if a trainer isn’t going to take my feelings and opinions into account, I don’t want my horses under his care. Yes, even if it was the late, great Bobby Frankel.
G. Rarick…regarding your post…I learned the same lessons as a trainer and have applied them as a bloodstock agent and facility owner. I haven’t lost any clients yet, either. In fact, my repeat customers continue to grow.
Equine…regarding your post from above…
“Jerry,
As an owner and trainer, I appreciate your opinion. However, I don’t believe you can compare the depth of your knowledge and experience with these two individuals.”
Why can’t we compare? Because of the class of horses that Todd Pletcher and Steve Asmussen have had? Remember this…nine times out of ten, horses MAKE their trainer, not the other way around. A good horse will defy the bad moves made by his trainer (or owner).
March 18th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
I said this a few days ago on the “RACHEL WON’T RUN IN APPLE BLOSSOM” blog and i’ll say it again, this time via copy and paste.
“Wasn’t there a time when trainers trained, and owners owned? Some of these owners should just take out their trainers license and get it over with.”
March 18th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
#36 Triple Crown winners Whirlaway and Citation both ran earlier in the week before the Derby.
Whirlaway was well beaten on the Tuesday, and worked 5 furlongs quite sharply with new rider Arcaro on the Friday.
March 18th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Zayat has no credibility untill he pays off his 34 million. Jackson professes to be a sportsman, continues to duck Zenyatta.The Apple Blossom could have put racing back on the map, not going to happen. This all traces back to when Steinbrenner bought the Yankees. Owners came to believe they were smarter than the professionals they hired in any sport. I’m a throwback to The Neloys, Van Bergs, Whittinghams,etc. I love this game, and though the owners foot the bill, let the trainers do what they do best.
March 18th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Back in 1964 i was at my home base LAUREL RACE COURSE.i had an owner that started to dictate to me about his horses..Not to mention his name, he was very well known in NY.
P.G. JOHNSON had his NY horses>>HERB PAYLEY had his NJ horses & i had his MARYLAND horses..Well i called him & told him to get a trainer over to my barn & bring a check to pay me & get his horses out of my barn & see u later..he sent a well known trainer the next day & everthing went smooth..2 weeks later he called my wife & pleaded to take them back as i would’nt talk to him..A few days later i did take them back & he never bothered me again.. those were the days when LAUREL had the real horsemen like OSCAR WHITE,BOWES BOND & his BROTHER, GROVER DELP, DOWNY BONSAL SONNY HINE, GELO, FRANK WHITELY, KING LEATHERBURY, ELMER TRUMAN & SO ON
March 18th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
OH>>>>I FORGOT TO MENTION THE REAL ASS…THE GUY THAT OWES MY BANK
March 18th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
AN OWNER WITH A CONDITION BOOK IN HIS POCKET IS A VERY DANGEROUS CREATURE.I RUN A SMALL NYRA BASED PARTNERSHIP GROUP AND THE FIRST THING THAT I TELL NEW MEMBERS IS THAT HORSE RACING IS A UNIQUE BUSINESS VENTURE.IT IS ONE THAT THE BEST THAT YOU CAN HOPE FOR IS A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE AND TO HAVE SOME FUN,MAKING MONEY IS NOT LIKELY,IT IS ALSO ONE IN WHICH THE OWNERS PAY THE BILLS AND THE TRAINERS CALL THE SHOTS,THEY ARE WITH THE HORSES ON A REGULAR BASIS AND KNOW THOSE HORSES MUCH BETTER THAN YOU DO.YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS AND MAKE SUGGESTIONS BUT ULTIMITELY THE TRAINER IS YOUR BOSS AND THATS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.
IF YOU DON’T FEEL COMFORTABLE LETTING THE TRAINER DO THE THINKING THEN YOU ARE NOT LONG FOR THIS GAME.I JOKINGLY SAY THAT BECOMING AN OWNER IS LIKE A TRIP TO LOURDES,GUYS GET IN THE GAME KNOWING NOTHING AND A SHORT TIME LATER,THEY HAVE A RELIGIOUS OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE AND SUDDENLY KNOW EVERYTHING.WHAT AN AMAZING TRANSFORMATION,JUST LIKE A MIRACLE.
LET THE GUY THAT YOU HIRED DO HIS JOB.
March 18th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
Eugene Levey do you remember a trainer by the name of Robert E. (Jack) Wheeler? I wonder how he is doing. Jack’s best horse was a nice filly called Bold Lady Anne.
March 19th, 2010 at 8:27 am
The nature of racing requires a team effort and a ton of negotiation with more than a little fenese and ethical behavior. In the end the connections are simply human; trainers make mistakes, owners make mistakes and the relationship with one another and the condition of the horse matters. How they (the connections) work it out becomes so much history.
I would never put the like likes of Jackson, Zayat in the category of fools (no matter the title of the convenience for this blog entry for PR). Do they make mistakes? Absolutely and time will show us that. From trainer, to owner with reasonable consideration, crap happens, personalities and money rule the day. Let’s not forget the horse, who in the end becomes the final fatality of poor decision making. If they are taken care of in the long run, I could care less about the bankruptcies, poor race placement and bruised egos.
March 19th, 2010 at 8:56 am
There you go again, knocking the people who we need in this sport…the folks who pay the way. I feel from all the news I’ve read regarding Rachel and Eskendereya, the decisions made on both these horses were joint decisions by owner and trainer. I am sure Steve & Jess have a very good working relationship. Not sure about Zayat and Pletcher, but an owner decides who to select to train his top horses…not the other way around. If Zayat wasn’t happy w/Pletcher, he can always choose another trainer, or Pletcher could choose not to train his horses if he had issues w/him. I don’t think Pletcher wanted Rule and Eskendereya in the same race and two horses w/6 week layoffs before the Derby; which leads me to believe he’s fine w/E going to the Wood.
March 19th, 2010 at 9:05 am
I REMEMBER HOWIE TESHER SAYING HE SPOKE TO KEN RAMSEY ABOUT TRAINING SOME HORSES. WHEN IT CAME TIME HE ASKED HOW RAMSEY MANAGES HIS STABLE AND RAMSEY SAYS ” I HAVE MY CONDITION BOOK RIGHT HERE IN MY BACK POCKET” WHERE TESHER SAYS “NO THANK YOU I DON’T WORK FOR OWNERS WHO CARRY CONDITION BOOKS”
March 19th, 2010 at 9:06 am
RAY>>>
if my memory serves me right,i believe that WHEELER died i think in 1992 i think he was 77…he was a finalist with bafferet to get in the HALL OF FAME..he didnt make it as BAFFERT DID..WHEELER WAS AS GOOD AS THEY CAME…he trained one of my all time fillies SILVER SPOON..BOB WAS A FIRST CLASS GUY..Bold Lady Anne raced in ‘88..she was a NJ BRED…She was bred by the guy that flew around in his Helicopter & XXXX everyone…You know who…DUE PROCESS STABLE NEW JERSEY
March 19th, 2010 at 9:12 am
ALSO>>>>WHEELER’S BEST HORSE WAS BY FAR “CV. WHITNEYS” SILVER SPOON
SHE beat the boys in the SANTA ANITA DERBY & WAS FAVORITE IN THE KY DERBY
March 19th, 2010 at 11:25 am
Hey…certainly off topic (but I think it’s related re trainers v. owners), anyone watch Cheltenham? …the Gold Cup? Anyone think that owners and trainers haggle like we do for our iddy bitty races? MAN! It was spectacular!
I LOVE JUMPERS AND CHASERS! I recommend it for all race fans that are purists.
Great meet so far….none of the ash and trash talk that is American racing; albeit it didn’t used to be this bad.
March 20th, 2010 at 3:50 am
an owner who lets his/her trainer manage their horse with no input from ownership is like a PGA tour pro who lets his caddy decide in what events he will play.
March 21st, 2010 at 9:36 am
TESHER SAID IT RIGHT!!!!!!