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	<title>Comments on: AAEP&#8217;S KUMBAYA PAPER</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/</link>
	<description>An independent voice for news, analysis and commentary on the Thoroughbred racing and breeding industry</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 02:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Horse Racing Cards</title>
		<link>http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/comment-page-2/#comment-12027</link>
		<dc:creator>Horse Racing Cards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 22:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paulickreport.com/?p=1583#comment-12027</guid>
		<description>Keep working ,great job!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep working ,great job!</p>
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		<title>By: Texas Hill Country Realty</title>
		<link>http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/comment-page-2/#comment-9647</link>
		<dc:creator>Texas Hill Country Realty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 21:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paulickreport.com/?p=1583#comment-9647</guid>
		<description>I did not expect this on a Thursday. Congrats, on all the exciting news!. Added you to my feed reader.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not expect this on a Thursday. Congrats, on all the exciting news!. Added you to my feed reader.</p>
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		<title>By: Paulick Report &#187; Blog Archive &#187; PAULICK&#8217;S &#8216;ASTOUNDING LACK OF UNDERSTANDING&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/comment-page-2/#comment-7555</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulick Report &#187; Blog Archive &#187; PAULICK&#8217;S &#8216;ASTOUNDING LACK OF UNDERSTANDING&#8217;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paulickreport.com/?p=1583#comment-7555</guid>
		<description>[...] those who took exception to what I wrote about the &#8220;AAEP&#8217;s Kumbaya Paper&#8221; was Dr. Rick Arthur, a former AAEP president and currently medical director for the California [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] those who took exception to what I wrote about the &ldquo;AAEP&rsquo;s Kumbaya Paper&rdquo; was Dr. Rick Arthur, a former AAEP president and currently medical director for the California [...]</p>
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		<title>By: D. Masters</title>
		<link>http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/comment-page-2/#comment-7544</link>
		<dc:creator>D. Masters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paulickreport.com/?p=1583#comment-7544</guid>
		<description>I repeat, if the AVMA/AAEP think that hauling horses in double-deckers (almost exclusively used for slaughter bound horses) and non-head retraint CBG death with no drug/residue testing for human consumption is humane and ethical for horses, then I really don't care to hear what they have to say about the much more complicated issue of drug use in the race horse. The former issues are "no brainers" and simple, the latter very complicated.  So in the meantime, AAEP should clean up it's act on transport and euthanasia issues first and drugs of any kind should not be allowed on raceday. I would go as far as to say that the mouthpiece organiztions (AVMA/AAEP) have some serious integrity issues, as do their members that don't speak out for change. The vet may get paid by the owner, but their duty first is to the patient...the horse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I repeat, if the AVMA/AAEP think that hauling horses in double-deckers (almost exclusively used for slaughter bound horses) and non-head retraint CBG death with no drug/residue testing for human consumption is humane and ethical for horses, then I really don&#8217;t care to hear what they have to say about the much more complicated issue of drug use in the race horse. The former issues are &#8220;no brainers&#8221; and simple, the latter very complicated.  So in the meantime, AAEP should clean up it&#8217;s act on transport and euthanasia issues first and drugs of any kind should not be allowed on raceday. I would go as far as to say that the mouthpiece organiztions (AVMA/AAEP) have some serious integrity issues, as do their members that don&#8217;t speak out for change. The vet may get paid by the owner, but their duty first is to the patient&#8230;the horse.</p>
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		<title>By: Clara Fenger, DVM, PhD</title>
		<link>http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/comment-page-1/#comment-7543</link>
		<dc:creator>Clara Fenger, DVM, PhD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paulickreport.com/?p=1583#comment-7543</guid>
		<description>The strange course of this discussion thread has only bolstered my original post:  the AAEP has one thing right.  There is a huge disconnect amongst the public between "medication" and "therapeutic medication."  

Quote from AAEP white paper:  "Management of medication violations by racing jurisdictions with three objectives in mind: (1) to discover how the medication entered the system of the horse in order to prevent future positive tests; (2) to manage and report sub-therapeutic levels of therapeutic medication overages in a way that does not further degrade the public image of racing; and (3) to sufficiently penalize the violators and discourage further attempts to violate the rules"

Let's focus on number (2) for a moment.  Fact:  Therapeutic medications are used to treat a condition, and the medication in some cases can be detected long after the original condition is gone.  i.e.  no one is advocating treating horses to "coverup" a condition so that they can run.  We are talking about treating a horse with a legal product for a real condition which we can eliminate so that the horse can be healthy to run.  But the legal product produces a positive test for a long time.  Right now, the public (apparently including some of the people posting on this forum) think that a positive for a subtherapeutic level (meaning it had no impact on the animal on raceday) of a drug is effectively the same as an etorphine positive.  

Additionally, there are a lot of great, new effective medications that we cannot use in race horses at all simply because they will produce a positive test at a subtherapeutic level for a long time.  Now we are bordering on inhumane.  I cannot use the best possible drug for a condition, because it will test long after the horse is recovered and back to normal.

Racefan, it turns out that EPM is an excellent example of why some medications should be permissible.  Ten years back, we only had one option to treat this disease, let's call it PSD for discussion purposes.  Horses would often be completely normal by 2 -3 months on this stuff, but if you dicontinued its use, the signs would worsen again.  Withholding before competition was 5 days.  If you raced Standardbreds, or had a show horse which would compete every week, you were off the medication more often than on it.  A horse actually died at the Rolex as a result of being off the medication long enough to compete.  So, normal on PSD, crash and burn off PSD.  In order to treat the horse long enough to completely eliminate the disease, took from 6 months to indefinite (as long as several years).  Now, you are placing an untenable burden on the owner if you expect them to wait years.  As long as the drug is not performance enhancing (PSD is an anti-protozoal only), it should be permitted.  Not doing so is inhumane.

There are many other examples of this.  This is why threshold levels should be established and therapeutic medications permitted in the test samples. And those "positives" should not even be reported, because the average Racefan can't tell the difference between a "real" positive for something like EPO or etorphine and an isoxsuprine positive.  If I can't educate the die hard people on this forum, the AAEP is not going to be able to educate the general public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The strange course of this discussion thread has only bolstered my original post:  the AAEP has one thing right.  There is a huge disconnect amongst the public between &#8220;medication&#8221; and &#8220;therapeutic medication.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Quote from AAEP white paper:  &#8220;Management of medication violations by racing jurisdictions with three objectives in mind: (1) to discover how the medication entered the system of the horse in order to prevent future positive tests; (2) to manage and report sub-therapeutic levels of therapeutic medication overages in a way that does not further degrade the public image of racing; and (3) to sufficiently penalize the violators and discourage further attempts to violate the rules&#8221;</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s focus on number (2) for a moment.  Fact:  Therapeutic medications are used to treat a condition, and the medication in some cases can be detected long after the original condition is gone.  i.e.  no one is advocating treating horses to &#8220;coverup&#8221; a condition so that they can run.  We are talking about treating a horse with a legal product for a real condition which we can eliminate so that the horse can be healthy to run.  But the legal product produces a positive test for a long time.  Right now, the public (apparently including some of the people posting on this forum) think that a positive for a subtherapeutic level (meaning it had no impact on the animal on raceday) of a drug is effectively the same as an etorphine positive.  </p>
<p>Additionally, there are a lot of great, new effective medications that we cannot use in race horses at all simply because they will produce a positive test at a subtherapeutic level for a long time.  Now we are bordering on inhumane.  I cannot use the best possible drug for a condition, because it will test long after the horse is recovered and back to normal.</p>
<p>Racefan, it turns out that EPM is an excellent example of why some medications should be permissible.  Ten years back, we only had one option to treat this disease, let&#8217;s call it PSD for discussion purposes.  Horses would often be completely normal by 2 -3 months on this stuff, but if you dicontinued its use, the signs would worsen again.  Withholding before competition was 5 days.  If you raced Standardbreds, or had a show horse which would compete every week, you were off the medication more often than on it.  A horse actually died at the Rolex as a result of being off the medication long enough to compete.  So, normal on PSD, crash and burn off PSD.  In order to treat the horse long enough to completely eliminate the disease, took from 6 months to indefinite (as long as several years).  Now, you are placing an untenable burden on the owner if you expect them to wait years.  As long as the drug is not performance enhancing (PSD is an anti-protozoal only), it should be permitted.  Not doing so is inhumane.</p>
<p>There are many other examples of this.  This is why threshold levels should be established and therapeutic medications permitted in the test samples. And those &#8220;positives&#8221; should not even be reported, because the average Racefan can&#8217;t tell the difference between a &#8220;real&#8221; positive for something like EPO or etorphine and an isoxsuprine positive.  If I can&#8217;t educate the die hard people on this forum, the AAEP is not going to be able to educate the general public.</p>
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		<title>By: Garrett Redmond</title>
		<link>http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/comment-page-1/#comment-7537</link>
		<dc:creator>Garrett Redmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 04:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paulickreport.com/?p=1583#comment-7537</guid>
		<description>Tsk! Tsk! Tsk!.  Beats the devil out of me how some can leap to conclusions without  actually reading and comprehending  the material.

I cannot see that I have ever suggested comments cannot be made unless I determine who is qualified to make a comment.  I believe I stated clearly exactly what I was trying to determine through my unscientific survey.

It also confirms how readily mudslingers can indulge in their favorite game of character assassination, when it can be done under the cloak of anonimity.

The more I think of it, the more compelling my conclusion: If you are ashamed to put your name to it - don't write it.

This is my last comment on this or any other topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tsk! Tsk! Tsk!.  Beats the devil out of me how some can leap to conclusions without  actually reading and comprehending  the material.</p>
<p>I cannot see that I have ever suggested comments cannot be made unless I determine who is qualified to make a comment.  I believe I stated clearly exactly what I was trying to determine through my unscientific survey.</p>
<p>It also confirms how readily mudslingers can indulge in their favorite game of character assassination, when it can be done under the cloak of anonimity.</p>
<p>The more I think of it, the more compelling my conclusion: If you are ashamed to put your name to it - don&#8217;t write it.</p>
<p>This is my last comment on this or any other topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Racefan</title>
		<link>http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/comment-page-1/#comment-7535</link>
		<dc:creator>Racefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paulickreport.com/?p=1583#comment-7535</guid>
		<description>D. Masters has the best comment of the whole lot!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D. Masters has the best comment of the whole lot!!</p>
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		<title>By: D. Masters</title>
		<link>http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/comment-page-1/#comment-7534</link>
		<dc:creator>D. Masters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paulickreport.com/?p=1583#comment-7534</guid>
		<description>If one looks at the comments of the pro-med and "AAEP did a decent white paper"job posters, they appear to have a laundry list of disqualifiers for people that post and don't share their opinions.  The vet snapped back, Redmond snapped back (with the coup d'grace...you can't post unless I say you are qualified to post) and the bottom line is that racing will not improve; especially for the horses. Rarick didn't say she didn't use meds and then somehow we went off into some bizarre herbal and Lasix/Salix debate, with a little PeTA and HSUS trash talk.  My understanding from Rarick was she doesn't use meds for her racing horses.  Everyone has to use some type of medication for an ill or lame horse at some time...but NOT near or on raceday.  Your horse needs meds, then it shouldn't be racing.  And that seems to be the big debate here and with the rest of the world. Many international jurisdictions don't use/allow them.

I just want you to know that the mother ship-AVMA, of which the AAEP has affilitation have recent published press releases that say horse slaughter in Mexico is OKee DoeKee and at the begining of their legislative agenda year, said they would support the slaughter bound horse on double decker ban bill, HR 305.  But now they are waffling on HR 305 and still support nonhead restraint, captive bolt horse slaughter of US Horses with no production records. Now, if they can't get their act straight on decent transport and euthanasia for US Horses, just what exactly can they contribute to the improvement of horse racing in the US?  Plus there are racing entities trying to discipline racer owners/trainers/breeders that sell to human consumption horse slaughter.  What's with the mixed messages?  The AVMA and AAEP seem to have some committment issues. I bet the white paper wouldn't even make good tp.

Good story Ray...keep up the good work.  I love watching  the dinosaurs squirm in the tar pits of failing racing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one looks at the comments of the pro-med and &#8220;AAEP did a decent white paper&#8221;job posters, they appear to have a laundry list of disqualifiers for people that post and don&#8217;t share their opinions.  The vet snapped back, Redmond snapped back (with the coup d&#8217;grace&#8230;you can&#8217;t post unless I say you are qualified to post) and the bottom line is that racing will not improve; especially for the horses. Rarick didn&#8217;t say she didn&#8217;t use meds and then somehow we went off into some bizarre herbal and Lasix/Salix debate, with a little PeTA and HSUS trash talk.  My understanding from Rarick was she doesn&#8217;t use meds for her racing horses.  Everyone has to use some type of medication for an ill or lame horse at some time&#8230;but NOT near or on raceday.  Your horse needs meds, then it shouldn&#8217;t be racing.  And that seems to be the big debate here and with the rest of the world. Many international jurisdictions don&#8217;t use/allow them.</p>
<p>I just want you to know that the mother ship-AVMA, of which the AAEP has affilitation have recent published press releases that say horse slaughter in Mexico is OKee DoeKee and at the begining of their legislative agenda year, said they would support the slaughter bound horse on double decker ban bill, HR 305.  But now they are waffling on HR 305 and still support nonhead restraint, captive bolt horse slaughter of US Horses with no production records. Now, if they can&#8217;t get their act straight on decent transport and euthanasia for US Horses, just what exactly can they contribute to the improvement of horse racing in the US?  Plus there are racing entities trying to discipline racer owners/trainers/breeders that sell to human consumption horse slaughter.  What&#8217;s with the mixed messages?  The AVMA and AAEP seem to have some committment issues. I bet the white paper wouldn&#8217;t even make good tp.</p>
<p>Good story Ray&#8230;keep up the good work.  I love watching  the dinosaurs squirm in the tar pits of failing racing.</p>
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		<title>By: Racefan</title>
		<link>http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/comment-page-1/#comment-7532</link>
		<dc:creator>Racefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 02:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paulickreport.com/?p=1583#comment-7532</guid>
		<description>EPM was/is very real... but is also VERY, very rare... it became an excuse for horses that didn't move or train well, these vets and trainers just said, "oh, she has EPM", and threw $1500 of medicine per month at them, and for what ?, Nothing...Hundreds of horses are currently on this very expensive EPM medicine, and they neither need or benefit from said medicine... but the vets certaintly are getting healthy of f the bills, and if as an owner, you don't think your trainer gets a very thick envelope from that veteranarian come Xmas time, you are living in a very happy place...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EPM was/is very real&#8230; but is also VERY, very rare&#8230; it became an excuse for horses that didn&#8217;t move or train well, these vets and trainers just said, &#8220;oh, she has EPM&#8221;, and threw $1500 of medicine per month at them, and for what ?, Nothing&#8230;Hundreds of horses are currently on this very expensive EPM medicine, and they neither need or benefit from said medicine&#8230; but the vets certaintly are getting healthy of f the bills, and if as an owner, you don&#8217;t think your trainer gets a very thick envelope from that veteranarian come Xmas time, you are living in a very happy place&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Aunt Bea</title>
		<link>http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/aaeps-kumbaya-paper/comment-page-1/#comment-7531</link>
		<dc:creator>Aunt Bea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 01:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paulickreport.com/?p=1583#comment-7531</guid>
		<description>****censorship! The great thing about the net is the FREE exchange of ideas! And if, you, Mr, Redmond, have invested your hard earned dollars as an owner/breeder in the treatment of rare disease (EPM), like 214,485,385 other racehorse owners, you are only making a few vets that you continue to employ, and the shareholders of the manufacturers of Marquis happy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>****censorship! The great thing about the net is the FREE exchange of ideas! And if, you, Mr, Redmond, have invested your hard earned dollars as an owner/breeder in the treatment of rare disease (EPM), like 214,485,385 other racehorse owners, you are only making a few vets that you continue to employ, and the shareholders of the manufacturers of Marquis happy!</p>
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